Any Interest In Modding a17 to be like a16?

[OldManBrian]

I've gone back to a16.4 with my group and we immediately started having a ton of fun with the game again, so now I'm looking at analyzing the differences and mod in what is making that version so fun for us into a17 (which we bounced off of hard after trying for awhile).

Anybody interested or already working on this sort of thing?

So far, based on the first few hours of play I'd say there are the following differences that I'm thinking of bringing over:

Lack of Grinding:

Everything in a16 seems so much faster, from harvesting, block damage, leveling up, etc. It had a good balance of bursts of productivity followed by a recharge period where you run out of stamina that you can use for looting\crafting\menu time. I plan on documenting exact differences here so I can be subjective about it.

Immediate Positive Feedback:

You gain levels and xp for doing most things, these skill levels provide positive reinforcement that make you feel rewarded for everything you do. I was surprised by how much this made a difference, but it seems to be a subliminal thing.

Simplified Perks:

In a16 the perks are pretty straightforward and you don't generally need to invest in one thing to get another. Generally it's a balance of level gating / skill usage / perk buys that feels natural for us and is a gratifying balance.

Dumb Zombies:

We really like how the zombies get stuck and swarm buildings without knowing the exact weakness of things. We never exploited the AI in general so we never really had any problems with it. Right now the zombies look like enemies in a tower defense game, all in a single congo line breaching the same exact point. Not to mention the dmg multiplier they get from doing it.

Builder's Dream:

I didn't realize how much I hated the saw table till we went back to a16.4. Having to run back and fourth to a crafting station constantly while trying to build something takes a lot of the fun out of it. Between that, needing to grind for perks \ resources, and zombies being able to tear through buildings, we just ended up not having much fun with the building aspect of the game anymore. On the subject of crafting, I preferred being able to combine things for increased durability and having more slots in general for crafting and smelting. Just less grindy all around in a16.

Looting vs Perk Buying:

a16 seems to be balance towards looting. Schematics are found, key crafting requirements are found, etc. There's alot more unknown and randomness in each game, and that seems to be a key element in our fun factor. In a17 you can just level up unrelated things, buy everything you need through perks (vehicles, guns, block types, etc) There's TONS of perk choices in a17, which I thought was good at first, but after going back to a16 I just prefer to have to either hunt for them (minibike, schematics, etc) or just get them automatically for upgrading my skills (block types via unlocking concrete/steel). For us, the addition of all the perks didn't help anything, just seemed to exist to justify the grindyness of the rest of the balance changes, which we didn't care for.

Infinite Maps:

This is a big one. We like to explore and we kept hitting the radiation zone in a17, which completely shatters our enjoyment and makes the worlds seem super small. This might in fact be the modding dealbreaker because I don't know that it's possible to bring this back.

There's more I'm sure, but this was just what jumped out at me after playing a16 again.

 

[n2n1]

It will be hard from A17 to make a normal 7dtd. So this time "CLASSIC Style HARDCORE" delayed or not released at all.

 

[Cirion]

Wait, there were infinite maps in A16? Really? I never noticed that.

I think some people have modded a few features in, if you hunt for them in the mod forums, like gun parts and (some) learning by doing. Although the LBD was not complete and did not replace the A17 system.

 

[OldManBrian]

Yeah, by mid-game we usually became a roving mini-bike gang, wandering the lands looking for the perfect location for a new base and a nice city to loot.

I've seen a few mods here and there, but like you said it 's just bits and pieces not the whole thing. At first I was trying to give a17 a chance and have been only modding a few things here and there, but it just never got fun like a16 was so I'm looking at totally throwing most of the a17 systems out in favor of a16 systems.

 

[Cirion]

I'm with you man. I like a handful of stuff in A17, but yeah, I agree, I miss all of the things you listed though.

It's ironic when you think about it. One of the "benefits" of the perk system is that it reduces grind. I am pretty sure roland and/or a few dev's stated this, would have to pull up the quote.

That's really not true when you actually get into it, when you consider in Vanilla A17, the EXP required to level up is insane compared to what I remember in A16. Yeah okay, you no longer have to craft a million axes or whatever.

The more accurate statement is the grind is more "Streamlined" than it was in A16. What I mean by that is you can unlock everything by just doing one or two things (mining and zombie killing).

On top of that pain, you also FEEL the grind more in A17 because the grind isn't as "Fun". To me anyway. So I think the people who like A17 are the same ones who like it to be easy, simple, and mindless to unlock everything - all ya gotta do is kill zombies, mine, and loot. I for one don't like the streamlining. Streamlining reduces the feel of being able to do more things. Doing less things = less fun.

If anyone has ever played xenoblade chronicles X on the Wii U, this is a great example of sooo many things you can do that it's hard to get bored for quite a while.

- Storyline missions

- Exploration

- EXP grinding

- Questing grinding

- Unlocking new characters to play as

- Making money

- Unlocking, buying new mechs

- Hunting for upgrades for mechs, equipment

- Learning new skills for your guys

- Challenging yourself with very difficult world bosses

- Discovering new outposts

- Playing with the outpost upgrade system

- Unlocking shops

- Increasing your player ranking

- ETC ETC....

I found that game super fun. A great example of a fun game done right. No one particular thing was necessarily SUPER exciting, but there was SO MUCH to do. I'd get bored of farming money? Let's check out the next biome, tons of exploration to do, finding new rare enemies, maybe trying to beat one. Ok, he's too hard, but I don't wanna farm money, so maybe I'll do a quest or two at the counter. Ok, bored with that, gonna do some quests in the town to try to unlock a new character or one of the new shops. etc....

I personally have a vision of so many more fun things they could do with 7d2d than they have now. I think if I had to say the ONE THING that I want the most, hard choice, but it'd be colonies, and being able to "rescue" towns and rebuild them and hire npcs for various roles like farming, zombie defense, doctors etc... my second most desired thing would be infinite worlds and on top of that, infinite progression so there is literally infinite gameplay. further you progress out the harder it gets. maybe you could "Clear" a map, and progress your character to a new map that's harder but you keep your equipment and the new map would have harder zombies, harder bloodmoons, but also better loot, and more exp. You could keep going forever. it would be great. the way you would clear maps would maybe be to "save" all the major towns in a map. that would take quite some time on the larger maps. Maybe a "storyline" map would be cool too where eventually you progress to the radiated zone and eventually find out the back story, find a cure, and maybe have to fend off the military (perhaps they are trying to keep you from getting the cure for whatever reason). the military would be super tough, even worse than the bandits, giving you a good reason for full steel armor and all the guns you have collected up to that point. you would then collect even better guns and armor, possibly even military vehicles, which would then allow to to finally storm their stronghold, finally collect the cure, and beat the game. another thought going back to colonies - Like in the walking dead, you'd have to deal with rival bandit groups (who have towns of their own) now and then. They would not show up until you form colonies though, to give you chance to gear up and prep. this would make sense anyway. in the walking dead, you usually were left alone until you tried to make a big colony and rival their own. They'd continue to harass your colony until you go to their hideout and beat them all and "Claim" it as your own. you would eventually be able to defeat all bandits and not get harassed anymore.

Anyway the zombies in this final zone would be even worse than the current green zombies potentially, to compensate for your better equipment, just so it doesn't just become a call of duty game at the end with just humans and guns/tanks.

maybe one way they could throw a curveball to definitely make it NOT a call of duty game at the end, is to have the military headquarters get ambushed by a huge horde and/or massive zombie boss that actually takes them all out, and you have to beat the zombie boss (final boss) before you can get the cure.

Right now don't get me wrong this game is very fun but in my opinion they could make it at least twice as good as it is now.