PC Another "direction of the game thread" and iam concerned...

[-Holo-]

Another post i agree 100% with. Its is indeed a new version in play with little to no threath and to much bullets and guns.And even them are not needed since the implementation of the junk turret.

Its just a dull and grey gamingexperience atm and the ppls who loves it i just cant understand.

Yeah. I made a thread in the mods discussion about it and just how many features that's been removed

Gonna try to make a modlet to tone down the ammo and guns and other tweaks for next restart and see how that plays out. And remove turrets entirely I think, both junk and regular.

I really really hope some serious modding will occur whenever the game goes gold, since I think it's moving too far from what I enjoyed with it.

Dreamgame for me would have to be based on A15 gameplay but with a bit of todays improvements like occlusion, power, paint, no Block ID's,block shapes, more Zombies and POI's and more.

 

[meganoth]

I agree with pretty much everything.The game has lost so much of it's core now it's a entirely differrent game from A15.

Been playing for a while now with a few friends and as you say. Cities are safe to roam now compared to a15 where there was tons of zombies walking around.

Yesterday we discussed that the game is not a survival-horrorish game anymore while we was outside in the middle of the night shooting zombies left and right. The player is the hunter and the zombies are the prey now.

The early stages of the game had been the most fun earlier, no guns or ammo and just forced to rely on bows or clubs and primitive weapons.

Now we get shotguns and plenty of ammo on the second day around :/ Forge was up on day three I think.

We regulary don't care about night and just go outside and do things, it's just not a threat anymore.

I played A15 a bit last week, with zombie density up to 150% and holy hell, we were scared, first night after I had killed over 40 z's with a ♥♥♥♥ty wooden club nightfall approached quickly and I had nothing to hide in, quickly dug a small hole in the side of the road before 22.00 and sat there hoping nothing would sence me.

Those situations are long gone now

From what I remember about A15 the same tactic as in A18 works: Freeing a single POI from zombies and sitting on the roof at night.

But I agree that A18 is easier in the first night even if you are without a POI because you are almost guaranteed to have a gun at that point. Which might really suggest a further nerf of the loot table for the first three day

After the first two or three days though, is there still a difference between the two versions for an experienced player?

 

[RipClaw]

But I agree that A18 is easier in the first night even if you are without a POI because you are almost guaranteed to have a gun at that point. Which might really suggest a further nerf of the loot table for the first three day

The main difference between A15 and A18 is that in A15 you usually found only parts of weapons. It took a long time to assemble for example a working pistol and that was usually of poor quality. And you couldn't assemble or repair a weapon without the appropriate schematics. So you had to use the bow as a ranged weapon.

 

[Laz Man]

Read the whole thread. It looks like game is dying.

If your judging the games health singularly on this thread your conclusions are wayyyy off.

 

[Kalen]

Read the whole thread. It looks like game is dying.

People aren't usually this passionate about a dying game....

 

[meganoth]

The main difference between A15 and A18 is that in A15 you usually found only parts of weapons. It took a long time to assemble for example a working pistol and that was usually of poor quality. And you couldn't assemble or repair a weapon without the appropriate schematics. So you had to use the bow as a ranged weapon.

Oh right. It already seems eons ago that I played A15.

 

[Laz Man]

The direction of the game has certainly changed, even since A16. The game has, in two alphas, gone from a somewhat realistic zombie-survival type of game where the emphasis was on defense, protection, and sustainability in a world where resources were scarce and zombies were everywhere to a more action-oriented run-and-gun Fallout-style game where the emphasis is on offense, raiding, and questing in a world where resources are abundant and zombies appear in clearly-marked groups for your combat pleasure.
While A18 improved on a lot of the more frustrating elements of A17, it also cemented the game's pivot to a more action-oriented experience. Every stat now has combat associated with it. Building bases is unnecessary with so many pre-made dungeons waiting to be turned into a base with minimal effort and crafting is largely superfluous in the face of abundant dungeons, treasure, and quests, especially with random stat distribution, increased crafting time and cost, lower repair cost, and Tier 6 no longer being craftable, plus schematics being spread out all over the place. Zombies don't roam the land much anymore, instead appearing in easily-contained and easily-managed groups - Even Screamergeddon isn't anywhere what it was in A17. I can spend an hour digging an open pit mine with an auger and I might see one screamer who will summon two or three zombies, but if I go to a POI I'll get dozens of zombies. The superiority of guns over melee, the fact every tree has its own gun now (except Intellect), and the ready availability of ammunition means most players will swap to a gun in the first few days and never stop using it.

I'm neutral on the game's current state versus its old state, since they both have their advantages and disadvantages. I like A18 more than A17, but I also liked A16 too and I can't tell how much of that is rose-colored glasses after two years. However it's hard to deny the game has definitely changed its direction in the last two years and is now seeking to be a fundamentally different experience than what it used to be. It's less of a survival game now and more of an action game. Your mileage may vary if that's a good thing or a bad thing, but it is what it is.

I think the added action was needed. For me, A16 and below was very one dimensional and grindy gameplay wise and had no pacing at all. (Speaking from an SP perspective)

Edit: as a side note alot of the things you mentioned will be subjective and thankfully be modded easily. Once the game goes gold, I bet there will be all sorts of fully fleshed out mods to suit hopefully everyone's tastes.

 

[HungryZombie]

Edit: as a side note alot of the things you mentioned will be subjective and thankfully be modded easily. Once the game goes gold, I bet there will be all sorts of fully fleshed out mods to suit hopefully everyone's tastes.

This is what really makes this game special to me. The vast modding potential. So many clever and creative people modding and making it a totally new game. I can't wait for gold.

 

[DeadGerry]

I think there's a tendency among players to leap a little too dramatically into 'I don't like this thing' and the presumption that it's changed 'forever for the worse'. As far as I know LBD is pretty much the only REALLY contentious thing which the Devs have slammed the door on; and even though I'm one of the players who really liked LBD, I'll cope. Be honest, we all will.

I definitely agree that up to alpha 16 there were a lot of things moving in very good directions, and for my part, alpha 17 turned me off playing for the duration. I've re-joined for 18 and so far am very much enjoying it.

I DO strongly agree with a lot the OP says, but I have to strongly disagree with the tone and direction which many comments of the 'this is borked and will be forever borked and I'm angry' are taking.

18 has moved a lot of things which were, in my opinion, crappy in 17. They have also introduced a lot of new things which are - surprisingly - new; and need tweaking and balancing. They'll get it - and your feedback is part of that, but try to remember that's what this forum is supposed to be about. Pimps give you alpha, you play alpha and they get feedback for next iteration / development. There's no need to be dramatic!

So yes, at the minute the balance between crafting, building is unbalanced; and warrants attention, but the looting and shooting is good too - it just needs work.

For what it's worth my tuppence is;

Love the looting, but miss the looting of <alpha 16 too. Poor POI's that weren't dungeons, and managing to do long loot runs through multiple buildings picking up scraps was a big part of my playstyle. The new dungeon POI's make looting less 'realistic' - but certainly more rewarding and time consuming. Too much so? Maybe. But without it it seems like nobody would have enough ammo to make it through later horde nights - so while I'd love to see it balanced, I'd also like to survive horde nights.

Part of that is the building. Building was great fun <16, but it definitely got TOO good. The addition of gun turrets, electric fences and blade traps DEFINITELY tipped it over an edge. We could already build virtually impregnable fortresses, with wood spikes sufficient to do the killing. It was too easy. The auto killers made it ridiculous - FUN - but ridiculous. The current moves have been a definite and deliberate move to reduce the invincibility of the bases - but have probably moved a little too far; and the Demolisher is obviously a place holder for a future 'base threat' - but for the moment It'll take some thinking to suitably improve the tower build/defence without having to up the threat accordingly - while retaining fun.

They're working on the AI - cool; because a better AI will allow for more Zeds, less glitchy bases and remove the need for something as tanky as the demolishers.

They're working on getting back the feel of <16 having a busy world, while trying not to run into Frame rate issues, which is good. I know it's frustrating in the meantime, but they've already said they're working on it. Yeah, a slider with how many zeds you have is one possible solution - but as far as possible a good developer would rather have graphics affected by an older or slower computer than gameplay experience. We of the older PC's can handle having to accept lesser quality graphics, but if you tell me that I need to accept a different (and poorer) game play experience because of it I'll be less happy. The proper solution is to find a way that the game play (zed numbers etc...) can be as consistent as possible regardless of system (within reason, obviously) - and while they could do a short term fix for people with better machines, that's resources and time taken away from the actual solution of a system which works for everyone.

I agree the gun play is more than I would like, and the melee has suffered - so would like to see, going forward, more varied ways to specialize and perk into / improve melee to keep it viable - which could be done by buffing Melee, or by altering the game stage = types of zombies you meet; I certainly begin to lose interest when everything is glowing, running and bullet sponge-y; and much prefer a world full of shamblers with particular places and times when you'll encounter the big bad's - but I know plenty of people who find that too easy.

Food is definitely a big question now - farming was way too abundant and rewarding before, and now it's perhaps too much the other way - but the Devs are clearly also continuing to work on it - prior to 17 everyone had too much food. In 17 nobody had enough - at least when I stopped playing. In 18 it seems to swing wildly between the two; but I do sadly note the number of players who are spending more time complaining LOUDLY about it rather than offering their experience, feedback and suggestions.

It is DEFINITELY worth noting that <14 much of the game was moving in a very particular direction - and since 14 the changes have been much more dramatic and sweeping, and thus generate more of an 'Urk!' factor and resistance -

TLDR:

Yeah, there was LOTS of stuff I loved about <alpha 16, and lots I hated about 17 and now 18 moving in a better direction. I still have concerns and agree with many of yours, but that's what this forum is for - giving feedback. You're more likely to be listened to if you make it constructive and less whiny.

This thread has a bit of both - but kudos to the OP for a very balanced beginning to the conversation and to those having an interesting and thought provoking dialogue on it.

 

[dregonazure]

From what I remember about A15 the same tactic as in A18 works: Freeing a single POI from zombies and sitting on the roof at night.
But I agree that A18 is easier in the first night even if you are without a POI because you are almost guaranteed to have a gun at that point. Which might really suggest a further nerf of the loot table for the first three day

After the first two or three days though, is there still a difference between the two versions for an experienced player?

honestly, been playing this since like either a10 or a11 and the difficulty hasn't changed much, yeah slightly easier to get guns but in the olden days would just walk around town and kill em all with what me and my friends could gather and then looted buildings mostly safe vs now where you go straight to looting but will get much more resistance.

 

[SonicSonedit]

Played the game instead. It looks like the game is thriving.

Did the run with the boys. We didn't even need to build a base this aplha. We literally facerolled through content on max difficulty possible. No base building, no scavenging, it felt like we were playing R6 siege instead - break in like crazy, kill everything in our path, rush to objective (loot room) and get out. Absolute trainwreck of a survival game it used to be.

 

[Laz Man]

Did the run with the boys. We didn't even need to build a base this aplha. We literally facerolled through content on max difficulty possible. No base building, no scavenging, it felt like we were playing R6 siege instead - break in like crazy, kill everything in our path, rush to objective (loot room) and get out. Absolute trainwreck of a survival game it used to be.

Was building a base ever needed in the last couple of Alphas? I like how it feels right now where you can leverage a POI if you wanted to. There are tons of creative/fun POI retrofits out there that players have done which I think is a testiment to players creativity and the games flexibility.

 

[Kalen]

Did the run with the boys. We didn't even need to build a base this aplha. We literally facerolled through content on max difficulty possible. No base building, no scavenging, it felt like we were playing R6 siege instead - break in like crazy, kill everything in our path, rush to objective (loot room) and get out. Absolute trainwreck of a survival game it used to be.

You must not have played for very long..... because I find it extremely hard to believe that you could play multiplayer, max difficulty, without a base for later game hordes. Game stage increases crazily in multiplayer.

 

[Jugginator]

You must not have played for very long..... because I find it extremely hard to believe that you could play multiplayer, max difficulty, without a base for later game hordes. Game stage increases crazily in multiplayer.

Obvious troll is obvious. Prob died a bunch playing Leeroy and they all stopped after day 3 because they've got the CoD attention span :tickled_pink:

 

[BobTheBard]

Obvious troll is obvious. Prob died a bunch playing Leeroy and they all stopped after day 3 because they've got the CoD attention span :tickled_pink:

Not really. It's entirely possible to play that way, especially if you're a veteran. Blitz POIs from the first few minutes since you know which ones to hit and where the loot rooms are when zombies are at their weakest. Get an early gun and some bullets, nothing can challenge you now, run around looting POIs. If you want to save storage, only grab the important stuff. Pick a random POI to put your stuff in, lazy-mode fortify a second one, boom, you're set for horde night. Once you get a minibike and some gas you don't even need to fortify a POI anymore. This is exactly how my friends play and they're up to Day 30 just fine.

 

[Qyzer]

You must not have played for very long..... because I find it extremely hard to believe that you could play multiplayer, max difficulty, without a base for later game hordes. Game stage increases crazily in multiplayer.

Obvious troll is obvious. Prob died a bunch playing Leeroy and they all stopped after day 3 because they've got the CoD attention span :tickled_pink:

Not necessarily agreeing with the person you are replying to, but I haven't needed a horde base since early A16. I do 99% of my hordes on foot, on the ground, from level 1 to ~150 (haven't seen much need to go higher level). I only use bases when I'm helping other players on a server (and most of the time then I run around the base on the ground). There really is NO reason to build a horde base unless you like to.

 

[Kalen]

Not really. It's entirely possible to play that way, especially if you're a veteran. Blitz POIs from the first few minutes since you know which ones to hit and where the loot rooms are when zombies are at their weakest. Get an early gun and some bullets, nothing can challenge you now, run around looting POIs. If you want to save storage, only grab the important stuff. Pick a random POI to put your stuff in, lazy-mode fortify a second one, boom, you're set for horde night. Once you get a minibike and some gas you don't even need to fortify a POI anymore. This is exactly how my friends play and they're up to Day 30 just fine.

Not necessarily agreeing with the person you are replying to, but I haven't needed a horde base since early A16. I do 99% of my hordes on foot, on the ground, from level 1 to ~150 (haven't seen much need to go higher level). I only use bases when I'm helping other players on a server (and most of the time then I run around the base on the ground). There really is NO reason to build a horde base unless you like to.

Well you guys are better players than I am, I guess.... I can't even imagine my group (3 of us) fighting a day 28 horde at maximum difficulty, nightmare speed without a base.

 

[BobTheBard]

Well you guys are better players than I am, I guess.... I can't even imagine my group (3 of us) fighting a day 28 horde at maximum difficulty, nightmare speed without a base.

Who said anything about fighting them?

The horde is basically an enormous resource sink. From the point of view of an optimizer, or a realistic survivor even, the question isn't 'How can I fight them?' but 'How can I survive them?' The most resource-efficient way to deal with the horde throughout every alpha has always been to avoid it, something that can be easily accomplished with a minibike or motorcycle at the low cost of gas. Why go through all the effort of building an elaborate base with a huge network of traps when you can drive in circles for a few hours and have no risk? Sure, you can fight the horde if you want to, but there's nothing requiring you to do so and little benefit to doing it, and that only gets more true the harder the horde gets.

That's actually one of the biggest distinctions between a survival game and an action game, to reference my post above. In a survival game you should be encouraged to avoid the horde. Hordes are meant to be a challenge you don't face head-on but instead find ways to work around and, well, survive. In an action game though, hordes are the climax of the struggle, the fight against overwhelming odds that you're expected to stand against and shoot down, then feel good when you've beaten them. As 7 Days eliminates more and more ways to avoid fighting the horde head-on it edges closer and closer to an action game.

 

[Kalen]

Who said anything about fighting them?
The horde is basically an enormous resource sink. From the point of view of an optimizer, or a realistic survivor even, the question isn't 'How can I fight them?' but 'How can I survive them?' The most resource-efficient way to deal with the horde throughout every alpha has always been to avoid it, something that can be easily accomplished with a minibike or motorcycle at the low cost of gas. Why go through all the effort of building an elaborate base with a huge network of traps when you can drive in circles for a few hours and have no risk? Sure, you can fight the horde if you want to, but there's nothing requiring you to do so and little benefit to doing it, and that only gets more true the harder the horde gets.

That's actually one of the biggest distinctions between a survival game and an action game, to reference my post above. In a survival game you should be encouraged to avoid the horde. Hordes are meant to be a challenge you don't face head-on but instead find ways to work around and, well, survive. In an action game though, hordes are the climax of the struggle, the fight against overwhelming odds that you're expected to stand against and shoot down, then feel good when you've beaten them. As 7 Days eliminates more and more ways to avoid fighting the horde head-on it edges closer and closer to an action game.

Ah gotcha... the dude I was originally replying to implied that he was fighting the hordes

We literally facerolled through content on max difficulty possible. No base building

 

[-Holo-]

From what I remember about A15 the same tactic as in A18 works: Freeing a single POI from zombies and sitting on the roof at night.
But I agree that A18 is easier in the first night even if you are without a POI because you are almost guaranteed to have a gun at that point. Which might really suggest a further nerf of the loot table for the first three day

After the first two or three days though, is there still a difference between the two versions for an experienced player?

Yes. It's quite a big difference. We thought the game was easier due to us being more experienced, but we're getting killed left and right in A15 with 150% zombie density set. It's like night and day, even if you find a gun in A15 at the start, ammoloot is limited and ammo runs out fast, especially if you panic.

We set up "base" in the attic on a POI in a small city, and there is so much zombies roaming around, I'm killing about 50-90 each day with clubs and arrows for the most part, the few 9mm bullets I try to save for dogs or other oh ♥♥♥♥ moments.

Just walking down a street to fight a zombie can easily attract more zombies in and around the houses so I often count around 30-40 zombies swarming me from all directions, with that many it's easy to be caught off guard and being brutally murdered.

It's glorious!