PC Amazing Gimmick. Well done.

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Wyrda78

New member
You you know what I love? Losing 10 hours of progress by falling through a floor which had absolutely no indication that it would give way or that it was different from the surrounding floor into a pit full of 20 zombies and no possible way to escape.

Just amazing. Well ♥♥♥♥ing done. Amazing game design. Just die unless you know the ins an outs of all the buildings. ♥♥♥♥ing amazing. Good job.

 
How was your 10 hours of progress lost? Did you lose all your perks? Did your base disappear? Is your backpack gone?

Unless you are playing ragequit...er....dead is dead then you really haven't lost anything. You've just had a setback and a new quest to retrieve your backpack and wreak vengeance on those zombies.

I like the false floors myself and am often suspicious that there might be something like that ahead of me so I tread very carefully.

 
Don't tell me you actually defend this. Yes I play dead is dead. Why does it matter to you? Even if you don't play dead is dead you shouldn't have to put up with bull♥♥♥♥ deaths. And I do put up with bull♥♥♥♥. I put up with deaths from bugs and lag an innumerable other nonsense things. But this is too far when the developers purposefully do something to kill the player without the player having a reasonable way to counter it.

How am I supposed to know that a solid concrete floor inexplicably has a section that is made out of wood despite looking exactly the same as the surrounding concrete, which will cave into an underground pit? That's right, I'm not. Don't tell me I'm supposed to be able to anticipate bull♥♥♥♥ like this, it's virtually impossible to know. It's a stupid gimmick.

 
Don't tell me you actually defend this. Yes I play dead is dead. Why does it matter to you? Even if you don't play dead is dead you shouldn't have to put up with bull♥♥♥♥ deaths. And I do put up with bull♥♥♥♥. I put up with deaths from bugs and lag an innumerable other nonsense things. But this is too far when the developers purposefully do something to kill the player without the player having a reasonable way to counter it.
How am I supposed to know that a solid concrete floor inexplicably has a section that is made out of wood despite looking exactly the same as the surrounding concrete, which will cave into an underground pit? That's right, I'm not. Don't tell me I'm supposed to be able to anticipate bull♥♥♥♥ like this, it's virtually impossible to know. It's a stupid gimmick.
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Here is why it is awesome.

Because I didn't die. I narrowly escaped when it happened to me and my heart was pounding and that narrow escape generated an awesome story. Without that mechanic there would be no awesome narrow escapes possible. People in real life die or injure themselves all the time because they go into old buildings and don't know that the floor is rotted and will collapse.

What would be dumb (and is dumb in other games) are telltale signs that allow you to avoid these situations 100% of the time. The only way this could be improved is if it could be randomly applied to different floors so you can't memorize it as a player once you've been in that type of building already.

Sorry you don't like it but it doesn't make it objectively bad. It just means you don't like it. I think it is great and even though I have died due to falling through an unstable floor I have also had thrilling narrow escapes and they make it all worth it.

Just my opinion.

 
You know when you pull off a good prank and the other person gets angry? I can’t help it... I’m very sorry... but I just can’t stop the smile on my face. It’s just too funny. You know TFP made these while giggling... and you know when they were making them, they just could not wait to see posts like this one.

 
I love the false floors, it makes the houses seem real. I think I saw something in the a18 perk video of trap detection (unless I am confused), that may help identify these... I won't take it though, I like the suspense...

 
Here is why it is awesome.
Because I didn't die. I narrowly escaped when it happened to me and my heart was pounding and that narrow escape generated an awesome story. Without that mechanic there would be no awesome narrow escapes possible. People in real life die or injure themselves all the time because they go into old buildings and don't know that the floor is rotted and will collapse.

What would be dumb (and is dumb in other games) are telltale signs that allow you to avoid these situations 100% of the time. The only way this could be improved is if it could be randomly applied to different floors so you can't memorize it as a player once you've been in that type of building already.

Sorry you don't like it but it doesn't make it objectively bad. It just means you don't like it. I think it is great and even though I have died due to falling through an unstable floor I have also had thrilling narrow escapes and they make it all worth it.

Just my opinion.
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You think that adding in mechanics the player has no way to counter to make the game exciting makes the game fun. Maybe you need to actually play on a difficult difficulty setting where there is something at stake. I do play on a difficult difficulty setting so that makes the game a challenge to survive and if I mess up it can easily lead to me death and it has many times. And so no, I don't need these random things in which I have no way to counter leading to my certain death via bull♥♥♥♥ when I have overcome all of the other challenges in the game. No, concrete garage floors do not randomly just rot away. The problem isn't that there is collapsing floors. The problem is that the entire thing is just contrived to kill the player. What am I supposed to do. Be more careful? I can't just spend the game inching along all surfaces that I have no good reason to suspect will cave in. If I did the game would be extremely boring.

 
...when the developers purposefully do something to kill the player without the player having a reasonable way to counter it.
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It is the devs duty to CHALLENGE players. How they do so and to what degree, is entirely up to them. I could be wrong about this particular section of floor, but other false floors (skyscraper room with "DIE female dog" written in blood on wall) usually make a loud cracking noise just before they collapse. You should have less than a second to sprint really fast to the far side OR jump onto the nearest furniture, which is how I usually counter these obnoxious traps. Just gonna leave this here:

https://www.wikihow.com/Improve-Your-Reflexes

Personally I would love to see MORE traps throughout 7DtD, particularly in areas previously established as bases/holdouts by other NPC survivors, inside entrances and right before major loot spots. Having a "triggerTime" flag or option which we could use to adjust the time in milliseconds from the time a trap is triggered (sound effect/animation starts) to the time it is actually inflicts damage, would be fantastic. However, TFP already have a very full plate, so I will NOT be holding my breath on this feature request...

 
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7 days to die...not 7 days to counter. You imposed the rule on yourself to quit on death, don't blame the devs for a rule you apply to yourself which you are clearly unhappy with.

 
In this game there are certain items that you carry along with you when you go looting and exploring. Some are more obvious than others. The less obvious ones are still “reasonable” in dealing with said situation.

 
I could be wrong about this particular section of floor, but other false floors (skyscraper room with "DIE female dog" written in blood on wall) usually make a loud cracking noise just before they collapse. You should have less than a second to sprint really fast to the far side or jump onto the nearest furniture, which is how I usually counter these obnoxious traps.
Personally I would love to see MORE traps throughout 7DtD, particularly in areas previously established as bases/holdouts by other NPC survivors, inside entrances and right before major loot spots. Having a "triggerTime" flag or option which we could use to adjust the time in milliseconds from the time a trap is triggered (sound effect/animation starts) to the time it is actually inflicts damage, would be fantastic. However, TFP already have a very full plate, so I will NOT be holding my breath on this feature request...
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You can try it yourself. Garage in the 4th house from the West, Second row from the North in Diersville. See if you can avoid it even with foreknowledge.

 
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I'm using a nitrogen-generated map and there are so many more POIs that I haven't seen before that have this trap. I love that there is still that feeling of surprise to get the adrenaline up (Blood is Pumping by Voodoo & Serano). Sorry you don't like it, OP. If you spec into stealth perks and wear the noise reduction mods, you can fall while in stealth without anything waking up and then clear 'em all out. :rapture:

 
Knowing where they are helps, but really once you’ve seen one, you realize how obvious they are.

Even so, you should still be prepared for accidents. If you’re not, or don’t want to, there’s really nobody to blame.

 
Knowing where they are helps, but really once you’ve seen one, you realize how obvious they are.Even so, you should still be prepared for accidents. If you’re not, or don’t want to, there’s really nobody to blame.
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Did you read the things I wrote? Go see it yourself and see how obvious it is to you.

Now indeed I will make sure to have frames in my tab to quickpole out of there. I didn't realise I had to be prepared for nonsense gimmicks by the developers.

 
@Wyrda78:

Gonna take a hard pass on reverting my heavily modded game build to test out your seed. Instead, I will just take you at your word that there is zero warning and little to no time to react to that particular trap with reflexes. Hopefully this was just an oopsie by whichever dev is giving all the POIs the dungeon treatment, and NOT malicious removal of player agency. Removal of player agency is always a bad move for game developers (see criteria #1-3 in link below):

https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/71265/what-is-player-agency-and-what-is-it-good-for

Remember that this is a destructible voxel-based game. We can go over, under, around or through most challenges.

 
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It seems to be an oversight by the devs, especially considering that the rest of floor is concrete but the drop-through floor is made of wood. I realise now that it's my fault that I died since I could have just polled out there at the get-go. But this instance of fall-through floors was definitely over the top and contrived.

 
People defending this is why I gave up on this forum.

Don't even try to give advice from a game development standpoint.

The people who tried already left for the most part (Rest in pieces is only in the Dev Diary, everyone else I know is gone)

don't waste your time trying to reason with them.

It doesn't matter that you didn't say that you dislike dying.

It doesn't matter that you criticise the unfairness, not the outcome.

It doesn't matter that the RNG might f*** you over, breaks your legs and spawns feral footballers around you, giving you no chance to survive.

All that matters is that they had fun while doing it, so its obviously a good design.

This is the logic of people who do not want to see the bigger picture.

"I liked it so everyone criticising it must just get gud"

I liked that last resort thingy. Doesn't mean it is good design.

One last time:

Good design is fair. Challenging as much as you want, but fair. That is why Dark Souls has at least one part (didnt really play it that much, not my type of game. I like games without invincibility frames) that I know of that has bad design:

A ball of death with no warning whatsoever instantly killing you if you don't know its coming.

But while in Dark Souls, deaths don't really mean anything and are part of the progression, 7D2D punishes you for dying, so it is NOT a good thing to have random "gotcha" moments if it isn't somewhat telegraphed.

A burnt house can collaps. Good obvious sign.

A concrete skyscraper having a random deathpit in it, is not.

A crane with mines on top, is not.

A perfectly fine building having zombies within the walls, is not.

But oh well... I have better things to do... like talking to a wall. At least that reflects my soundwaves, producing at least SOMETHING sensible.

 
But you didn't die from the fall so it wasn't an instant kill the player from the developers. You died from the zombies that woke up in the pit where you fell. I have fallen into similar pits and was able to narrowly escape and the feeling was not one of rage. It was exhilaration. So the trap is fair as long as you think fast and escape from the pit before the zombies can get you.

Let's talk about developer created means that would allow you to get out of that situation alive:

1) Perking into stealth so that nothing wakes up in that pit when you fall

2) Carrying ladders or frames on your belt to quickly get yourself elevated out of the pit after falling

3) Perking into parkour to make sure you don't take fall damage or sprain your leg and become more mobile with jumping

4) Wearing heavy armor and increasing your HP to increase your ability to take hits and avoid stuns to possibly dispatch all the zombies below

You even said that you will start carrying frames to nerdpole out of there if it happens again so you intuitively know that there is a way to counteract the death. Since the fall itself isn't deadly it is fair. It leads to a life and death situation that CAN be mitigated.

Now you can continue to accuse me of playing on easy mode and accuse the devs of trying to kill you on purpose because your ego can't take a death that is your own fault but all that does is keep you from learning how to play better the next time. <shrug>

 
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