PC Altpha 17 - Swing and a huge miss!!

[TheMouldyCheese]

There was indeed the need...


That's about the most miserable, whiny, uninformed post I've read since A17-x dropped; and you do realize there's been a LOT of them right?

-Morloc

No there wasn't the need. And theres no need for you to jump in just to add fuel to the fire. Your only post on here was trying to rile and antagonize others.

I would suggest maybe the OP tries again on a lower difficulty? Theres no shame in dropping to Scavenger or Adventurer. A17 is harder than previous versions of the game. (Or different maybe, needs some getting used to)

Maybe try a different area of the map? POI's and cities/towns can be pretty tough places to go as a low level squisher.

The numbers you've said do seem a touch exaggerated but still, it seems like you have been a little unlucky. I'd also recommend avoiding zombies a bit until you are more established. You're only making it harder for yourself by killing every one you see, in addition to the fact that you could be using that time to gather essential resources.

I would urge you to just start a throwaway game on Scavenger difficulty, get used to things, then when you feel like you know what you are doing, whack the difficulty back up. You'll probably have to start again anyway when stable A17 comes out, so I wouldn't get too attached to a map.

I know theres a lot of things that need some work, but thats what we need to help TFP with. And we need to do it in a constructive manner.

 

[Vomkat]

if u just want to build and craft, TURN THE ZOMBIES OFF (or lower the difficulty level)

 

[Morloc]

No there wasn't the need. And theres no need for...

Sorry, OP deserves the smack-down. He essentially throws out the worst sort of tantrum possible, and concludes that TFP has "ruined" the game. There are 100s of other posts by people complaining about A17 difficulty, balance, etc. Starting yet another thread to spotlight his particular tears and spilled milk is disrespectful to those of us who have to read it. Because he finds the game too hard?...because he just wants to offer his opinion?...because he wants to be heard?? NO; because if he'd taken the time to read some of those posts, he'd know enough about the state of A17. With 200 people's complaints, thoughts and opinions about A17 already in play, his post was NOT meant to be constructive or to open any dialogue at all (or he simply ignored all of those many posts).

OP did not want constructive discourse, he wanted primal rage (or an expression of teen angst?) so there's NO need to waste time being constructive with him (within the constraints of accepted forum etiquette as always of course).

For the record, A17-x is in many ways a great move. I have many "issues" with the current state, but by READING other people's posts, I have put to rest my fears about more than half of those issues. Of the remainder of my issues which can't be explained by "this is alpha!", I accept that not every aspect of this game is going to go the way I'd like it to. I offer my opinions about those things, and perhaps pick one or two to "press" in the forums to see if there are others who agree, and if we might be able to steer the course of development. That's being constructive.

-Morloc

 

[Kosmic Kerman]

That's because;
it's been over a year, they delayed it a couple extra months from when they telegraphed the streamer events, and it's still an unbalanced, buggy mess.

now that it's out,

if you don't like something that people like but don't agree with, people say "git gud" or "go play something else" or "it's not designed for you" and dismiss your argument.

if you don't like something that people don't like but can agree with, people say "it's experimental" and dismiss your argument.

if you don't like something that people do agree with, people say "that's exactly what TFP wants, and it functions well, and i like it, A16 was cheesy/exploity/boring, A17e is the best version ever".

if you like something that people do agree with, they say "A17e is awesome, and it's exactly how i envisioned the game to be".

A lot of people are frustrated because not only is A17e in poor shape, but there isn't even consistency of message. It's experimental, but also exactly how we wanted it to be for this game etc. Do you see my point? TFP advocates are talking out of both sides of their mouth to be sure and tell you, that you, are the problem for not enjoying this version.

Read the OP again. He didn’t play the game long enough to learn the new systems. It’s unfortunate he didn’t enjoy the the time played but A17 is a completely different game. If you don’t approach it with the right mindset and/or are not interested in learning how it works you are going to have a bad time. A lot of the negative feedback is from people who played a little saw that it changed and then quit. Some of these threads have updates from the OPs after they’ve played some more and some have had more positive things to say about A17. Most of the toxicity is the result of people crapping all over A17 before they’ve given it a chance or made some effort to learn how the game is played. Unfortunately these threads are drowning out some legitimate criticism of A17.

 

[TheMouldyCheese]

Sorry, OP deserves the smack-down. He essentially throws out the worst sort of tantrum possible, and concludes that TFP has "ruined" the game. There are 100s of other posts by people complaining about A17 difficulty, balance, etc. Starting yet another thread to spotlight his particular tears and spilled milk is disrespectful to those of us who have to read it. Because he finds the game too hard?...because he just wants to offer his opinion?...because he wants to be heard?? NO; because if he'd taken the time to read some of those posts, he'd know enough about the state of A17. With 200 people's complaints, thoughts and opinions about A17 already in play, his post was NOT meant to be constructive or to open any dialogue at all (or he simply ignored all of those many posts).
OP did not want constructive discourse, he wanted primal rage (or an expression of teen angst?) so there's NO need to waste time being constructive with him (within the constraints of accepted forum etiquette as always of course)

-Morloc

Bear in mind though he is a frustrated paying customer who cares about the change enough to make a post on this forum. I know there's tens of other threads saying the same, but if this many people are complaining and quitting, it sends a message to the devs that something isn't right and I think TFP are fully aware the need to change something.

To me it sounded like he needed to rant. He needed to share his personal experience.

It also sounds to me like he needs to turn down the difficulty and slow down a bit of I'm honest.

He does sound a little extreme in saying the game has been ruined. It's not hugely different, just a little more drawn out. he just needs to sink a few more hours in. Admittedly I haven't fully taken to the changes yet, there's negatives and positives, but the more critical things that are said, the more likely they'll be noticed and addressed.

And you're right. Choosing issues to press and discuss is the best way to constructively steer development.

I'm hugely in favour of providing more advanced in game options to the player but I don't feel like I'll be heard on that one.

 

[mr.devolver]

The main problem is that instead of making the game easier for low level difficulties, they are making the low level difficulties even harder. I started the game playing on low difficulties, I improved and played on Nomad difficulty for a long time, then I had to step one difficulty level down because it got harder than it used to be and in Alpha 17, I had to step down to the lowest difficulty and if I was a new player, I would probably rage quit. That's what does the lowest difficulty level feel like now. What's next? Dead on arrival? lol

 

[Skipio]

I feel *some* empathy with the original poster though I’m suspicious some of the things he said are a tiny bit exaggerated(?)

People saying “it’s a different game, you have to relearn it” are, to me, missing one important point. There’s no good argument why playing at *default* difficulty (whatever they call it) should be harder in A17 than it was in A16. Different yes, harder why? I’ve had about about 30-40 game days of A17 To get used to the new systems and l can say categorically that it is harder.

(I’m now playing on adventurer and it’s far better so far, but I haven’t reached day 7 on this play through yet, so I’ve no idea what the horde will be like.)

Another issue is the zombie experience. TFP have acknowledged this is an issue so I’m sure they’ll fix it (in the next patch?) My personal opinion is that they should nerf it hard (at least 75% - obviously with increases elsewhere to make up for it). This is a zombie horde survival game, not a zombie horde hunting game! They way you survive in a zombie apocalypse is avoiding zombies where you can and fighting when you have no choice. Not hunting down every zombie in sight because they’ve suddenly become experience sponges.

 

[Vedui]

My problem was watching zombies spawn in on the horde nights within the border of my base. lol, made for a frustrating night. Had to shrink things a bit. I don't think they should spawn within visual range of the player(s)
I have been able to mod most other things I didn't like

Didn't they state that in a patch, that they brought the spawn-in closer? Ie like 50 blocks? Maybe my memory is off tho!

/V -

 

[Poojam]

Read the OP again. He didn’t play the game long enough to learn the new systems. It’s unfortunate he didn’t enjoy the the time played but A17 is a completely different game. If you don’t approach it with the right mindset and/or are not interested in learning how it works you are going to have a bad time. A lot of the negative feedback is from people who played a little saw that it changed and then quit. Some of these threads have updates from the OPs after they’ve played some more and some have had more positive things to say about A17. Most of the toxicity is the result of people crapping all over A17 before they’ve given it a chance or made some effort to learn how the game is played. Unfortunately these threads are drowning out some legitimate criticism of A17.

I don't need to play the game to understand that only having one LCB will have ruined 99% of what I enjoyed in multiplayer PVE and PVP servers, which was building big, and many protected structures.

I don't need to play the game for more than 1 death to observe that the death penalty system, as designed, will greatly miss-match PVP encounters and lead to even more trolling. Gazz even agreed and tried to change it, and has admitted that "other people", ie a developer, doesn't see it that way.

I don't need to play the game for more than an hour to understand that I don't enjoy the pace of not being able to sprint backwards/sideways, swing an axe swiftly, and build blocks at the speed I could in A16.

I don't need to play the game for more than a game day to understand I do not like the encumbrance system as designed, or any encumbrance system for that matter.

I don't need to play the game for more than a real life day to understand that I don't care for zombies not dropping loot, zombies that spawn in front of your eyes in prefabs, and prefabs requiring you to clear the zombies 2-3x over.

I don't need to play the game to understand I don't like perks to be level restricted. I didn't like them in A16, and I played that for hundreds of hours. Socking away more recipes as "skills" behind level gates is not what I call interesting developments. The reasons given are arrogant and insulting. I want to specialize in something in this sandbox game within the mechanics that have been established, then I don't understand why I can't? It's not World of Warcraft. I don't respect the answers given because the devs are basically saying you'd play the game too fast, when in fact, I don't want to play their "game". Quite frankly, what they view as the "game", which is to experience their dull progression with dull tools for dozens of real life hours is not enjoyable. I want to play the game like I've been playing it for the last 5 years, and these gates are preventing me from doing that.

I don't see any of these things as balances, tweaks, or bugs, and since Roland says TFP aren't going to redesign it, I don't have any problem confidently saying A17 sucks.

 

[Morloc]

I'm hugely in favour of providing more advanced in game options to the player but I don't feel like I'll be heard on that one.

I'm too lazy to find the post, but Roland did address that concern and I believe the gist of what he was saying was that such options have been removed (deliberately). They did so not to punish the player base, but to create a more consistent (for good or for bad) play experience for everyone while the game is in its beta alpha phase. If there was a setting for say..."fauna", and a player was posting that he was having a difficult time finding chickens to kill, someone troubleshooting would then need to wonder if that setting had been altered. Having limited settings allows the devs to focus on....content, performance and hard bugs. Options and balance are normally ironed out later.

Now...how long it's taking for all this to happen is another debate so, we can all at least agree to grouse about that

-Morloc

 

[PinkLed5]

Adjust your gameplay maybe?

I think this has a lot to do with it. A17 cannot be played the same way a10-a16 were played. I started in a10 and this is the first alpha since I learned in the ins and outs that has really challenged me. I've had to completely change the way I approach the game and none of my old ways are working now. I'm enjoying it.

 

[Zadwanaa]

That's because;
it's been over a year, they delayed it a couple extra months from when they telegraphed the streamer events, and it's still an unbalanced, buggy mess.

now that it's out,

if you don't like something that people like but don't agree with, people say "git gud" or "go play something else" or "it's not designed for you" and dismiss your argument.

if you don't like something that people don't like but can agree with, people say "it's experimental" and dismiss your argument.

if you don't like something that people do agree with, people say "that's exactly what TFP wants, and it functions well, and i like it, A16 was cheesy/exploity/boring, A17e is the best version ever".

if you like something that people do agree with, they say "A17e is awesome, and it's exactly how i envisioned the game to be".

A lot of people are frustrated because not only is A17e in poor shape, but there isn't even consistency of message. It's experimental, but also exactly how we wanted it to be for this game etc. Do you see my point? TFP advocates are talking out of both sides of their mouth to be sure and tell you, that you, are the problem for not enjoying this version.

You think A17e is in poor shape? Interesting. It has flaws, absolutely, but i feel its in a better shape than A15 & A16 (only 2 alphas ive played)

Seems to me that you're exaggerating and are getting rather defensive. The toxicity was started by OP who ranted and raved about a17, treating it like its A16 and felt the consequences. Is it too much for OP? Probably... Maybe for OP, turning off the blood moon or even zombies until he gets better situated would be better.

There are negative aspects to A17, there are good and there are things to get used to, but some people just spew hate. Spewing hate because something is different than what theyve been used to for so long.

Stamina is amazing, its a game that tries to include some realism where it can... stamina is in a great spot. The right perks fix it. Early on too.

Hiding in a hole from the blood moon? why? its 7 days to die. 7 days. To die. its in the name of the game that there's going to be zombies coming after you. Whether you die or not is all about how you play. Run & gun on the street? sure, if youve got the right skills, hiding out on the roof? Sure, got defenses set up for it? Cause otherwise that base is done.

Zombie loot an issue? If you want, after every zombie, just drop some rotting sandwiches and some paper here n there... maybe some gunpowder and some candlesticks.

the best complaints are people complaining about the bugs. its experimental, of course there's bugs. You opt into it. You opt into knowing this version of the game will have bugs. Game breaking bugs, perhaps. falling pois, phantom trees etc. etc.

The beauty of 7 Days is having the option to play other alphas, maybe A17 isn't for OP. Maybe A16.4 is perfect for him. Hiding in a pit from zombies during the horde night and having reinforced concrete base and steel weapons by day 7. To each their own.

 

[Ghostlight]

The main problem is that instead of making the game easier for low level difficulties, they are making the low level difficulties even harder. I started the game playing on low difficulties, I improved and played on Nomad difficulty for a long time, then I had to step one difficulty level down because it got harder than it used to be and in Alpha 17, I had to step down to the lowest difficulty and if I was a new player, I would probably rage quit. That's what does the lowest difficulty level feel like now. What's next? Dead on arrival? lol

Lowest difficult in A17 is extremely easy. You 1- or 2-shot all zombies with a level 1 club, and iron spikes will insta-kill any zombie so Screamers are a non-issue. It is as easy as the equivalent lowest difficulty in A16, if not easier.

- - - Updated - - -

A17 cannot be played the same way a10-a16 were played. I started in a10 and this is the first alpha since I learned in the ins and outs that has really challenged me. I've had to completely change the way I approach the game and none of my old ways are working now. I'm enjoying it.

Other than having to drop the difficulty a bit (I used to play on max in A16), I am playing EXACTLY how I played in A16 and it's fine. 100% fine. I am now level 95 and having no problems at all. If anything, and combat aside, A17 is EASIER than A16. No durability loss, top tier weapons acquired the moment you can make them, vehicles and other things that we used to have to hunt for the blueprint are now available guaranteed as soon as we hit the appropriate level and so on. I'm not saying these are good changes (they definitely are not) but they add up to make A17 one of the easiest alphas in ages.

 

[Kalarro]

ok, so I spawn randon gen. Graphics - good. Game runs smoothly. Althoug desert biome is increadibly ugly now. Doesn't matter though. Spawn near 2 huge cities, fine I guess, lots of gathering opportunities. So far so good.
One day passes. I've gathered practically nothing, killed a bunch Z's with a stick and went on into an old cabin to camp out the night. Day 2 starts.... 1 buidling - 3 ferals, one of them a cop. Really? I've got a stick and a bow shooting stones. They one- shottet me. And it wasn't even a good building! Respawn, smaller town, small buliding. Outside - waliking horde. Took down like 40 of 'em. Walk into a bulding, 20 more come. Standart setteings, nomad. They spawn like 60 at a time. ON DAY 2!!! WTF? And the stamina? What is up with that. Can't even fart, cuz you'll use all of the stamina. Can't fight, run or anything, how are you gonna take down a huge walking horde on day 2? Also, running to the trader, encoutered 12(!!!!!!) flyings things. They do decent damage. Loot is better, but what is the point if you fight an army of Z's from the spawn?

Anyway, good job spending a year ruining the game. I went back to Alpha 16 immidiately, and so did my friends. Maybe start working on another game if you have nothing better to do than ruin what you've built

An advice, switch to navezgane. I always played random gen. But I tried and I spawned near 2 buildings with 90 zombies inside (adding both houses). It was ridiculous. I started in navzgane, and the numbers seem good again.