PC Alpha 21 Dev Diary

[BFT2020]

I doubt.

because this is what i writed

"And from weapons class i don't have any perks.

I playing knife pistol only and i have found multiple first/second tier quality 3-5 rifle and shotgun.

In loot i found only 2 pistol and one knife and from trader only the magnum."

This is what your readed

"And from weapons class i don't have any perks."

When the real problem is the quality difference between crafted weapons/tools and what you find in loot/trader/quests.

Yeah better close it now.

After all developers already acknowledge the balance problem situation and will resolve it in future.

  
From what you posted, it reads like you were not perking into any weapon classes.  Easy mistake if something is written  in broken English.  What I would have written is “Even though I have perked into knives and pistols, I am seeing mostly rifles and shotguns.” 

Sometimes people, including me, can misread something when the structure is off.  Mistakes happen

 

[Teezer]

You don't see the red border when you approach the "you're leaving the quest area" distance?

Is it really a thing?

The only thing I know is that they should make a non-resettable timer, which appears clearly, like in Apex or CoD when you are out of map and you need to return to the battlefield

 

[Winkiss]

or add a second frame: yellow - warns, red - cancels the quest.

 

[fyiiamaheavy]

There is a bug i discovered the other day. When knifing zombies/animals on a block that is a an angled block (ramp) or any of the none flat blocks knifing a zombie or animal on said block will shoot the zombie flying up into the sky like 200 m and about 300 mm away from me.

 

[Syphon583]

+ No warning when you are getting too far away from quest

There definitely is a warning. Always has been. There's a distance indicator in the quest tracker that goes from green to yellow to red the further away you get. Problem is it wasn't very clear, so in A21 they added a barrier to the world that glows red when you approach it. It's still a little subtle IMO. They could increase the range of when it appears so that the warning comes up sooner.

Is it really a thing?

The only thing I know is that they should make a non-resettable timer, which appears clearly, like in Apex or CoD when you are out of map and you need to return to the battlefield

It definitely is. You just wouldn't see it unless you approach the warning barrier without completing the objectives of the quest. I like your idea, though. Have a timer that prompts the player to return within 10-12 seconds or so.

or add a second frame: yellow - warns, red - cancels the quest.

We don't need more colors, honestly. The devs also need to think about players with accessibility issues. For some, adding a second different color will not register because they all look the same. Simply increasing the range of when the warning appears should be sufficient.

 

[meilodasreh]

After all developers already acknowledge the balance problem situation and will resolve it in future.

Yes it is oviously a "sender/receiver" problem after all.

All faatal said was that balance is a subject to change until gold, not that they acknowledge that you have identified a balance problem, and have it fixed in the way you like better.

But anyhow, no pun intended, I apologize if I have misunderstood your talking,

and I hope the game balance will be adjusted according to what you want.

I still think though, there always has to be some grade of "luck factor" within this system, e.g. I have not invested points into mechanical engineering, so I will progress very slowly in vehicle crafting.

Right now I'm at day 23 and have way under 20 "vehicle magazines", so still in the "bicycle age" and there's very low hope to get to crafting the gyro at all.

So my intent is to buy it some day from the trader, when it's in stock and I can afford it.

If that wouldn't be possible, it would be bad balance because one would have to invest into vehicle crafting just for the sake of being mobile in later game stages,

which is obviously a very important part of the game to be able to get to far away locations fast.

So there has to be a chance that the stuff you didn't invest points into, still is available for you at the traders.

Seen from the perspective of a player who actually invested points into vehicle crafting, it of course then seem odd, because he will also be offered this stuff.

And then he's like "why am I being offered stuff that I also can craft, and sometimes the offered one even in better quality"

Maybe the "trader loot tables" could be adjusted in a way that they will not offer you stuff that you perked into, or at least not often, but "concentrate" more on stuff you didn't invest points.

Don't know if that's possible, but I think this would help preventing the situations you described (if I finally did get you right? )

 

[NekoPawtato]

I still think though, there always has to be some grade of "luck factor" within this system, e.g. I have not invested points into mechanical engineering, so I will progress very slowly in vehicle crafting.

Right now I'm at day 23 and have way under 20 "vehicle magazines", so still in the "bicycle age" and there's very low hope to get to crafting the gyro at all.

So my intent is to buy it some day from the trader, when it's in stock and I can afford it.

If that wouldn't be possible, it would be bad balance because one would have to invest into vehicle crafting just for the sake of being mobile in later game stages,

which is obviously a very important part of the game to be able to get to far away locations fast.

So there has to be a chance that the stuff you didn't invest points into, still is available for you at the traders.

Seen from the perspective of a player who actually invested points into vehicle crafting, it of course then seem odd, because he will also be offered this stuff.

And then he's like "why am I being offered stuff that I also can craft, and sometimes the offered one even in better quality"

I could be wrong but I think the forgetting elixir is actually a lot cheaper now. Personally once I have certain magazines maxed out from the INT tree (workbench/vehicles) I plan to re-spec and put those points elsewhere

 

[meilodasreh]

+ Spanish sentences in French translation

I can top that.

There's a funny typo translation for one of the trashbins into german.



These lil thingys are literally translated as "cursed trash cans" 

I assume the origin typo is "doomed" instead of "domed".

But I will not report it as a bug, it's just too hilarious......never searched one of these though, too afraid it might like bite my arm off or whatever when I try to loot it 

 

[Laz Man]

Anyone build any cool horde bases in A21 stable yet?

Here is my meager uninspired base in my recent A21 stable playtest.  Crafting base on top of gas pumps.  Horde base in truck trailer.  Needs some paint but will call it the "Fizz Cola" Kill box...   Coming up on day 7 on default settings so should be more then enough I hope...

 

[meilodasreh]

I could be wrong but I think the forgetting elixir is actually a lot cheaper now. Personally once I have certain magazines maxed out from the INT tree (workbench/vehicles) I plan to re-spec and put those points elsewhere

Ah yeah right, that might actually be the intention of the devs.

I saw the cheap princing more as a temporary approach, to make it easier for the player to change his mind while trying around with the new skill magazine system.

But you might be right, it could also be this exact solution and therefore stay like it is.

So when you reached a certain point when you don't want to progress any further, this is a way to adapt the probabilities.

Good idea!

 

[Professor-Pip]

In loot i found only 2 pistol and one knife and from trader only the magnum."

This is what your readed

"And from weapons class i don't have any perks."

When the real problem is the quality difference between crafted weapons/tools and what you find in loot/trader/quests.

Yeah better close it now.

After all developers already acknowledge the balance problem situation and will resolve it in future.

From what I've read in your posts, you are comparing apples to oranges here.

There are two different factors to consider: Loot Stage and Trader Stage. 

TS was added in A21 and will no doubt need more work as it goes along, but this is what determines what you see in the trader's inventory. Loot Stage determines what you find in loot. The devs have said that your TS should allow you to see higher level items in the trader's inventory than what is found in loot. This allows you to progress a little faster if you concentrate on doing quests for the trader. It sounds like these are working as intended but perhaps there is a way you can mod the xml to slow trader stage progression if that is what is bothering you. 

 

[meilodasreh]

[...] meager uninspired [...] should be more then enough I hope...

...and what does that say about you and your work as a member of the dev team anyway? 

I'd like to say "good job", but "good luck" seems to be more appropriate 

Here's what I came up with:

Just attached a platform at the backside of the box factory. (inside "engine room" just added/filled up as a whole "staircase scenario"



fighting position held up fine for day 7 and day 14 horde so far (day 7 just as a wood platform with the "stair case entry choke point")

 

[Riamus]

I was saying i not have perks for the weapons i was finding in loot/traders/quests.

I was getting shoting and various rifles quality 3-5.

But instead i have perks for knife and pistol, at rank 3 or 4.

Basically loot/traders/quests was giving to me stronger weapons from types i don't even have perks.

A couple notes- your perks have nothing to do with what the trader sells or what you get for quest rewards.  (Other than that Daring Adventurer increases the Trader Stage and therefore it can sell better stuff).  If you perk into knives and pistols, you will still have a random chance to find any weapons in quest rewards and trader inventory.  No bonuses there.  The perks will help you only in what you can find in loot.  However, it doesn't guarantee you'll find specific stuff in loot and it doesn't mean you won't find other things in loot.  It's still RNG.

I haven't noticed any noticeable increase in specific weapons dropping in loot based on perks.  I think it's a very low increase in chance.  Magazines get a big increase but parts and weapons/tools don't seem to get much increase.  It is possible the increase needs adjusted or it is also possible that it is bugged.  But it is also quite possible it's just RNG.

 

[Jost Amman]

...and what does that say about you and your work as a member of the dev team anyway? 

That he's so busy actually developing the game that he doesn't have time to come up with a proper horde base?  :heh:

 

[Slingblade2040]

Will there be a focus on food next alpha? Along with a possible nerf to the amount of ammo in those infestation quests? 

This whole alpha seems to have made crafting rather pointless aside from the occasional mod or making some crafting stations. Armor is almost always gotten through loot or purchased at a trader, same for tools and weapons, the trap bundles have made it pointless to craft the turrets. Same can also be said for the food bundles, the vending machines having so much food,drink and buff items that it's made crafting them pointless. 

Infestations loot crates and loot in general have made ammo crafting almost nonexistent.  

Mind you this is all SP world problems that I feel will just keep making SP a looter shooter and making crafting and survival a thing of the past.  Balancing both SP and MP isn't working out

And because some folks have the silly notion of oh don't use traders or just mod it as the end all solution that that isn't a viable solution that's literally doing a challenge mode or changing up vanilla into something different. If not using traders was an actual option we should be able to disable them like we do with air drops and blood moons.

 

[Riamus]

Will there be a focus on food next alpha? Along with a possible nerf to the amount of ammo in those infestation quests? 

This whole alpha seems to have made crafting rather pointless aside from the occasional mod or making some crafting stations. Armor is almost always gotten through loot or purchased at a trader, same for tools and weapons, the trap bundles have made it pointless to craft the turrets. Same can also be said for the food bundles, the vending machines having so much food,drink and buff items that it's made crafting them pointless. 

Infestations loot crates and loot in general have made ammo crafting almost nonexistent.  

Mind you this is all SP world problems that I feel will just keep making SP a looter shooter and making crafting and survival a thing of the past.  Balancing both SP and MP isn't working out

And because some folks have the silly notion of oh don't use traders or just mod it as the end all solution that that isn't a viable solution that's literally doing a challenge mode or changing up vanilla into something different. If not using traders was an actual option we should be able to disable them like we do with air drops and blood moons.

Considering they removed wolves and bears from the forest and stated it was the beginning of balancing, I'd assume that means food will get balanced better in A22.  But that's just my assumption.

I craft more in A21 than A20.  However, the issue is that the crafting costs were changed and it's those changes that make crafting certain things not worth bothering with.  The main issue for me is that everything requires tons of duct tape for some reason.  It becomes a matter of whether or not you want to make that much duct tape to craft stuff or if you want to just loot or buy the stuff.  After the lower tier crafting, I find myself not wanting to bother crafting stuff even if I can afford to make the necessary duct tape.  If the crafting costs had remained the same as A20, I'd be crafting most things and at more quality levels except when I find something better first.

As far as finding something better in loot or at the trader... well, that's always an option.  They don't want to force players to only craft.  There needs to be an option to get what you need from multiple sources, which is what we have.  If you want to use traders to buy everything, put points into Daring Adventurer and you'll pretty much always find better stuff to buy than you can loot or craft.  If you want to get more from looting, put points into Lucky Looter and potentially wear the glasses that increase it as well or loot in higher biomes.  If you want to craft to get most things, don't put points into those and use the points for other perks and you'll usually be able to craft things relatively equal to what you can find or buy.  That balance isn't perfect because there's no good way to balance based on number of players and so you will find a different amount of magazines in single player than on an 8 player game and it will vary between those numbers.  Still, you have the option to craft if you prefer that.

Traders are intended to be used and will likely be incorporated into the faction system (I'm guessing) once that's ready.  They are going to feel OP to people who use them extensively but that's isn't required.  I'm not suggesting not using traders.  But the way I play is that I'll use traders to quest and will buy things occasionally from them if I really want or need something or it can't be looted or crafted (e.g. solar) but it isn't common for me to buy things from them.  It isn't that I'm trying to make things difficult.  I just don't see any reason to buy things as I know I'll find them without having to pay anything for them.  I just save money for things I can't loot.  I wouldn't consider that way of using traders to be unusual or "silly" and is probably how a LOT of people use them.

The difficulty for some is that they can only do things in the "most efficient" way and so if they can buy something to have it sooner, they will do so.  And then are upset that they could get it so easily.  I always say that if you don't enjoy something because of how you're doing it, just do it differently and in a way you do enjoy.  If you don't like buying stuff from traders because it's too easy, then don't buy things from traders or at least reduce what you buy.  It may not be the "most efficient" option but if you aren't enjoying it, then you have the choice to not do it.  No one forces you to play the game in a way you don't enjoy other than yourself.  I usually get a response back that they can't help but play efficiently, though that is really a choice they make even if they don't see it that way.

 

[Eduho]

 Buenas , gracias por el trabajo que estais haciendo , sois sorprendentes .. Tengo una duda , en mi base y en 27 dias , dentro de mi base reaparecen zombies , dos veces en ese espacio de tiempo . es un error ?, se supone que en tu base no han de aparecer ... Por lo demas todo esta fantasticamente bien , el juego es como lo juegas , hay de todo si buscas bien , y desde luego , sino te organizas pasas necesidades.

Muchas quejas estoy leyendo para estar en un apocalipsis. ya si eso quitais bichos

 

[hiemfire]

 Buenas , gracias por el trabajo que estais haciendo , sois sorprendentes .. Tengo una duda , en mi base y en 27 dias , dentro de mi base reaparecen zombies , dos veces en ese espacio de tiempo . es un error ?, se supone que en tu base no han de aparecer ... Por lo demas todo esta fantasticamente bien , el juego es como lo juegas , hay de todo si buscas bien , y desde luego , sino te organizas pasas necesidades.

Muchas quejas estoy leyendo para estar en un apocalipsis. ya si eso quitais bichos

Do you have a landclaim block or bedroll placed in your base? If not then sleeper zombies will respawn.

 

[4sheetzngeegles]

@Riamus




I gotta say you spoke my thoughts for this alpha. I play sp, this is the first for me ever that
I truly felt I had a choice. To play in my comfort zone, or to expand out and see what the draw
of other playstyles is.

I took over Moe's storefront. I won't stay but I actually had forgotten about making a forge and
a workbench before this. Now I have both. I now use the Trader for periodic questing to see how the
other side lives.

The POI danger stat, was a bit overt in the beginning, but it has prompted me to explore and test
my present level to decide if I Need to up my weapons and arms for the coming fights.

I use a trader now, simply as an extension of my gameplay, IE. to fulfill my needs when I misjudge
my choices.

Mind you that I play long days and with rudimentary tools and weapons,until they don't make me feel
safe anymore. Primitive bow, just made an iron spear t4, stone spear t6, stone hammer t3, 45, pipe
machine gun t2, stone shovel t4. thats my bar

All but one is from foraging, They actully feel like I earned them, going into 4 and 5 skull Pois.
High school is now a sphincter clincher.

I don't have a horder stash of water, or food, anymore. Now I play more of the game itself. I have a week's
rations, a bike.

Stealth, itself really only needs a little tweak for me, Stealth play means I take up to a Real world
hour clearing a poi.

I could be overpowered easily, If I wanted to. thats what i like here, I now have more of an option to
choose, as I go, not feel segregated one way or the other.  I can now play multiple genre styles in a
single playthrough.

But I will always be a scavenger/explorer at heart.

 

[fragtzack]

Will there be a focus on food next alpha? Along with a possible nerf to the amount of ammo in those infestation quests? 

This whole alpha seems to have made crafting rather pointless aside from the occasional mod or making some crafting stations. Armor is almost always gotten through loot or purchased at a trader, same for tools and weapons, the trap bundles have made it pointless to craft the turrets. Same can also be said for the food bundles, the vending machines having so much food,drink and buff items that it's made crafting them pointless. 

Infestations loot crates and loot in general have made ammo crafting almost nonexistent.  

Mind you this is all SP world problems that I feel will just keep making SP a looter shooter and making crafting and survival a thing of the past.  Balancing both SP and MP isn't working out

And because some folks have the silly notion of oh don't use traders or just mod it as the end all solution that that isn't a viable solution that's literally doing a challenge mode or changing up vanilla into something different. If not using traders was an actual option we should be able to disable them like we do with air drops and blood moons.

Try 50% or less loot in settings.