PC Alpha 21 Dev Diary

[meganoth]

I am incredibly grateful to you for such large and lengthy answers and for taking the time to write my huge text.
Yes, I found a list of planned things, but I think it's a little modest for such a game with such a large community. It's just that when I played the game, I would never say that this game is like an indie project. I can only say that the game looks unfinished and it lacks a bit of content. In addition, when I looked through the list of top-selling steam games, there was also 7 days. That is a very ambitious project

Yes, it is, and it is also almost finished. They have a plan, a small team, and it would probably be a bad move changing course so late in the development. Much better to add additional stuff on top as an expansion, DLC, or second iteration. This also helps modders, as they want a stable base game eventually so they don't need to adapt their mods all the time.

Per definition TFP is definitely indie, as they don't belong to one of the big publishers. But sure, they are definitely not a 1- or 2-man team that makes the game with money lent from their grandma , they have slowly expanded and  now their size might be comparable to developers like Obsidian was before their buyout (I say this without actually comparing numbers, so could be way off, it is just a guess)

Will DLS appear in the game? Can't you just say a few words about what they might be or their guesses?

Do you mean DLC? I am just a player, not employed by TFP. I don't know their further plans and they have kept mostly silent about them, but I think they don't like DLCs very much. So I would bet my money on some free patches to supply stuff that is still promised from the kickstarter but missing and then 7D2D 2.

Are they going to finish the game? I really would not like, since the game is super interesting, to literally add a few necessary things and I can say that this is one of their best survival and zombie-themed games. In addition, the game has a high online, maybe if the online will grow with updates, they will change their plans a little?

They are going to finish the game. I would say many of us players would like them to continue indefinitely, but they need new sources of income and for the sake of the future console version there needs to be an end as well.

Once again, I thank you for your attention. I am ready to send you a small donation for the fact that you gave me time and answered all my questions well. Just tell me where I can do it.

No need. Forums are and should be free sources of information

 

[Teezer]

Just finished to raid a Tier 5 Pop-N-Pills factory because i had 20% infection and guess what, not a single antibiotic

Edit : The POI is absolutely amazing tho, had lot of pressure raiding it

 

[Neminsis]

Which is why I also suggested simply adding magazines and recipes as a specialty to Jen since currently she only has medical, which is niche. 

That doesn't work either because it's up to RWG where Jen is going to spawn and in Navezgane she's well outside the range of the initial spawn locations. This problem only really exists during the first 7 days. You do eventually level up enough at the end of the first 7 days that putting more points into your gathering perks makes buying books, from the trader by selling resources and crafted items, feasible. 

Travel time is important for a non questing player because of the extra time you have to spend to make enough money to buy drinks from the trader and to be completely 99% of players are setting up base within walking distance of whatever trader they spawn nearest to. 

Give it a try. Navezgane. Default settings. No questing. No raiding. I'll even spot you what you can steal from the outside of POIs. You're limited to what exp you can gain from resource gathering, self defense, and what money you can make from what you can gather this way and airdrops. Don't think of it as some kind of extreme game challenge, think of it as a way to isolate the problems for stay at home players and people that just don't want to raid for whatever reason. Here's a hint to make sure that you do survive, you can sell stone arrows to the trader because unless you're really bad with the bow you'll have stacks of feathers from all the raw eggs you'll have to eat

The tiny % of addicted people are just gonna have to learn how to live without the trader solving all their problems.

So then you're going to playing the game without traders at all? There is also a tiny percentage of players that play that way too.  I mean, it is actually easier when combined with raiding than not raiding and buying your food and water from the trader until you can produce your own. So maybe it is right for you. Go on throw away that crutch.
 

Trader is prolly gonna be nerfed more too.  Quest rewards are outscaling other progression right now.

Maybe, or maybe crafting will be balanced so that it comes up to the same level. Just favoring the critical crafting and workstation mags in the loot and trader table would go a long way towards evening it out, but yeah, daring adventurer and better barter really unbalances it.

 

[vergilsparda]

Should I bother making a bug report (since there aren't any reports of it already) or is this just supposed to happen? Had alpha 20 downloaded, installed alpha 21 EXP, and now it's throwing a ton of errors that the old bundles don't exist anymore. I downgrade back to alpha 20, and the error does not occur. I download the latest experimental over top of Alpha 20, thinking that would fix it, and the entire Bundles folder, where the error is pointing to, disappears (even though it was originally there). You'd think this would be a bigger bug but it seems I'm the only person having this problem so maybe it isn't a problem, and I don't want to make a bug report if it's intentional. This is the error that throws. If I should make a bug report let me know:

Spoiler

ERR Loading AssetBundle "Y:/(0) Steam Games/steamapps/common/7 Days To Die/7DaysToDie_Data/../Data/Bundles/Other/Items" failed: Parent folder not found!

"Y0) Steam Games" is a custom folder on my SSD that I use to install all of my games to since I don't want them on my hard drive (which hopefully I will be upgrading to an SSD also soon). I have no idea what this error means but it does not happen when I have Alpha 20 downloaded (because the Bundles folder does not disappear from the Data folder, that only happens when I update to latest_experimental)

It also doesn't actually like, harm anything, at least not as far as I can see, so again it might not even be something I need to report.

 

[meganoth]

Maybe, or maybe crafting will be balanced so that it comes up to the same level. Just favoring the critical crafting and workstation mags in the loot and trader table would go a long way towards evening it out, but yeah, daring adventurer and better barter really unbalances it.

With the way magazines are set up they would probably just decrease the number of magazines you need to reach every milestone.

But no matter which method they would employ it would also change the balance for the whole game, because players who play it normally would get the workstations in no time if those drop more in loot and can be bought more often at the trader.

I can think of one solution that would specifically address the ungrouped SP miner/builder (who is the only one with a problem really) without changing overall balance too much: If you perk into AdvancedEngineering you always have a very small chance to find a diamond while digging below ground (i.e. whenever destroying a dirt block). And you can trade in diamonds for specific magazines like forge ahead at the trader. 

 

[meganoth]

Should I bother making a bug report (since there aren't any reports of it already) or is this just supposed to happen? Had alpha 20 downloaded, installed alpha 21 EXP, and now it's throwing a ton of errors that the old bundles don't exist anymore. I downgrade back to alpha 20, and the error does not occur. I download the latest experimental over top of Alpha 20, thinking that would fix it, and the entire Bundles folder, where the error is pointing to, disappears (even though it was originally there). You'd think this would be a bigger bug but it seems I'm the only person having this problem so maybe it isn't a problem, and I don't want to make a bug report if it's intentional. This is the error that throws. If I should make a bug report let me know:

Spoiler

ERR Loading AssetBundle "Y:/(0) Steam Games/steamapps/common/7 Days To Die/7DaysToDie_Data/../Data/Bundles/Other/Items" failed: Parent folder not found!

"Y0) Steam Games" is a custom folder on my SSD that I use to install all of my games to since I don't want them on my hard drive (which hopefully I will be upgrading to an SSD also soon). I have no idea what this error means but it does not happen when I have Alpha 20 downloaded (because the Bundles folder does not disappear from the Data folder, that only happens when I update to latest_experimental)

It also doesn't actually like, harm anything, at least not as far as I can see, so again it might not even be something I need to report.

There is a general support section in the forum, good for problems you are not sure about.

And the error message means that no "Other" folder was found. And A21 seems to have no "Other" folder at that location, if it is gone it might be just right.

 

[spacepiggio]

Searched those too, searched a whole town & only 1, had to buy them at the trader...had no problem last patch

 

[Laran Mithras]

6.3K hours since May 3, 2021. I say that only to impress that I didn't just buy the game and play for an hour.

Feeling: crafting is better.

Feeling: Harder progression. 

I think where the hard comes in is during gamestage progression. By tightening up Trader purchases/rewards, and making crafting a "slower burn," the BM hordes and mission zombies feel as if they're outpacing the player (solo and multi-player).

The answer appears to be increasing Loot Frequency?

BM hordes tear through cobblestone fast. When cement mixers are locked behind a higher # of workstation magazines, this means being forced to endure probably 2 BMs with only cobblestone. In multi-player, I kept harassing the tool-station crafter for a cement mixer. The hapless guy kept saying he needed more mags. We pushed through 2 BMs using cobblestone, but the base was chewed with gaping holes. Exciting? Maybe, sure. Worrisome, definitely.

Just an observation. I demand nothing: I can always mod.

 

[unholyjoe]

as a distraction to the complaints... this is a little encouragement..

https://steamdb.info/app/251570/charts/

 

[mstdv inc]

as a distraction to the complaints... this is a little encouragement..

https://steamdb.info/app/251570/charts/

View attachment 28139

A new record! 

 The game and the developers deserve it.  eace:

 

[hiemfire]

And I'd assume such survival gear would not be found on day 1.

With the way TFP does rng not finding the gear you need to enter a biome at all during a play through is likely if/when they do implement that.

 

[Callum123456789]

Broke a new record for player count? I wasn't aware until I saw that honestly it's awesome to see this game still growing its player base even after 10 years.

 

[Slingblade2040]

Besides, as someone said before, they don't really care if you choose to do that.  Go for it.  It doesn't have to be balanced.  It is really just like people who min/max.  If they want to do so, they'll progress faster than people who don't.  That's okay.  No balancing required.

Oh the pimps do care and they have proven that with all the ridiculous changes to combat certain play styles on almost every alpha they do. Digging zombies because they cared about folks building underground bases, the whole looting zombies and then having to compromise with loot bags because of the backlash and even this most recent nonsense with the water because as madmole himself said we don't want people making 500 duct tape and water to be more important which it isn't so far unless they nerf finding murky water and the vending machines further. That's just to name a few.

Unless this biome gating plan has a serious impact such as players loosing hp I don't see much of an issue and just by passing survival gear in the same way folks just deal with the heat or cold in the desert or winter biome. Annoying sure but nothing that can be easily ignored.

 

[meganoth]

Oh the pimps do care and they have proven that with all the ridiculous changes to combat certain play styles on almost every alpha they do. Digging zombies because they cared about folks building underground bases, the whole looting zombies and then having to compromise with loot bags because of the backlash and even this most recent nonsense with the water because as madmole himself said we don't want people making 500 duct tape and water to be more important which it isn't so far unless they nerf finding murky water and the vending machines further. That's just to name a few.

Unless this biome gating plan has a serious impact such as players loosing hp I don't see much of an issue and just by passing survival gear in the same way folks just deal with the heat or cold in the desert or winter biome. Annoying sure but nothing that can be easily ignored.

Madmole said something about INFINITE duct tape. 500 is, by my calculation, an infinite amount away from infinite.

Now MM wasn't too exact either, even before you needed bones and so infinite duct tape never was not possible . But the water change adds some costs to the production. You want 500 duct tape per week? Then find and pay for ~10 filters and collect water every day. Duct tape just got a little bit more expensive and time consuming to craft.

And what you fail to mention was that this was just one reason of at least three why they made the change

 

[Slingblade2040]

If you're already to the point of having a bike then you're already past 75% of what people are @%$#ing about.  By the time you have a bike that means you have a workbench and should be getting iron weapons and tools soon.  If you have a minibike then honestly you're past the hump already.

Alternatively if you rushed the trader quests to get a bike then its STILL high risk high reward because you don't yet have a stable source of food or water and you're equipped in low tier stone and cloth/scrap armor with minimal healing supplies.  Bike consumes stamina, you're still not invulnerable while riding it and definitely not while looting.  Running over things damages the bike that you have few if any repair kits for.

Honestly you're massively downplaying the danger.  The game is alot harder, debuffs occuring alot more is not something to handwave as it turns even an annoying vulture into something that can easily kill you or semi-permanently remove large chunks of your max hp.  I'm betting that if you put 100 players in the wasteland with minimal food/healing supplies, a bike, low tier stone/cloth/scrap gear, and 1 repair kit that prolly 30% or more will not survive a day of looting.  And you need to reliably survive day after day unless RNGesus blesses you to do what you're saying.

Its easy to type things out, quite another to actually do it consistently in game.

We aren't saying to plop them in the wasteland and live their. This is going into wasteland and looting out in the open then heading back to an easier biome, no different than taking a day off from questing to do a book store run and if the players can't take 2 seconds to make sure it's clear for looting then that is a serious issue with the player base and them not being aware of their surroundings which can also happen in even the most basic biome. It's not that difficult to see if zombies are around when you are going to loot something which I assumed most people already did.

You are seriously over playing the difficulty of going out to loot in the open, as if this insanly difficult thing to that results in almost certain death each time. Especially after this most recent update lowered the chances of getting debuffs. 

 

[Ralathar44]

One of my first point went into the Miner 69er and I leveled it pretty much equally to my weapon perk. I am perked into shotguns and clubs, and I found plenty of parts for both, but surprisingly almost no parts for tools. I have more parts for weapons I am not perked into than for tools.

Pretty much the same here. Day 25 and I only found 11 steel tool parts and 10 motor tool parts in total. But I found over 50 steel club parts and 30 shotgun parts.

I spread my points pretty evenly between my tools and my weapons. I even have a point into salvage operations which should help with the parts as well.

Mmm tasty data.   That makes the feedback way better and more robust.  Makes it easier for people and the devs to give solid answers, should any exist.  Or identify an issue if one exists.

 

[Ralathar44]

Give it a try. Navezgane. Default settings. No questing. No raiding.

Why would I intentionally play a game in a way its not intended to be played and then complain about it?  That's stupid.  This would be like saying "give it a try, Elden Ring, no dodging...no parrying".  I'm not going to blatantly ignore core loops and then complain about my results unless I'm just doing it for the goofs.  Neither would I advocate that the game should allow someone to play in a way that undermines core loops. 

Scavenging is a core part of the gameplay, which is why it was in years before trading was.  It was part of the MVP, trading is an optional nicety.  If the game was about the trader all you'd need is the baseline biomes, animals, zombies, and then the trader.  In fact I can't think of a single survival game that does not make you go out and scavenge or raid.  Even Minecraft makes you go to much more dangerous areas for higher tier materials. 

If you just want to build bases either free or with your own idea of balanced costs use creative mode.  The game has a solution for your issue.  You get to decide how much materials to destroy to get the thing you want spawned in.  But the game is never going to change to where you don't have to go out and scavenge and if a balance issue creeps in allowing that The Fun Pimps will fix it.  Like they have with this update .  And like they have previously too.

 

So then you're going to playing the game without traders at all? There is also a tiny percentage of players that play that way too.  I mean, it is actually easier when combined with raiding than not raiding and buying your food and water from the trader until you can produce your own. So maybe it is right for you. Go on throw away that crutch.

Its easier because raiding is part of the core loop and trading is supplemental .  I've played without traders many times before.  This patch I didn't touch the trader until day 14 for a water filter other than finding out where it was via the main quest.  And until day 21 I didn't have any transactions outside of that water filter and the 2nd one.  And I agree with people trader should not be forced for water filters or stable water supply, though I very much do like water being harder to come by.

Which is why I've suggested things like Dew Catchers producing murky water and then upgrading them with a water filter.  And the Water Filter itself should prolly be craftable at high tier using steel.

 

[RipClaw]

Mmm tasty data.   That makes the feedback way better and more robust.  Makes it easier for people and the devs to give solid answers, should any exist.  Or identify an issue if one exists.

I think I have a possible explanation. I did a little digging in the XML files and it seems that the tool parts for the most part are capped by lootstage. They are in the ProbT1Cap group that starts with lootstage 42. Up to lootstage 41 the probability to find any tool part is zero.

You can find them in Working Stiff crates without the lootstage cap but they only have a 50% change to spawn while other items in the same loot table have a 75% to spawn and only one item from this group spawns in a Working Stiff crate.

 

[Ralathar44]

BM hordes tear through cobblestone fast. When cement mixers are locked behind a higher # of workstation magazines, this means being forced to endure probably 2 BMs with only cobblestone. In multi-player, I kept harassing the tool-station crafter for a cement mixer. The hapless guy kept saying he needed more mags. We pushed through 2 BMs using cobblestone, but the base was chewed with gaping holes. Exciting? Maybe, sure. Worrisome, definitely.

I solo'd the day 23 horde on default difficulty with 64 zombies at a time (9, 15, 23 so 3rd horde for me) with just cobblestone and spikes, mostly wood spikes. (I was underbuilt, too greedy looting....oof)  Had Quality 5 Knucklewraps and Pipe Machine Gun, Quality 3 Pipe Pistol for emergency single zombie elimination, fort bites, and beer plus some medical stuff.   For some dumb reason I didn't make any molotovs and left my pipe bombs in the chest lol.  I guess I felt like maximum effort brick moding it . 

Hordes should not be hitting your blocks much, if they are then you're trying to block them too much instead of guide them.  And when I say guide, I don't mean maze.  I mean "they're going to enter from somewhere, it behooves you to determine where instead of letting them determine it".  For bunker bases and stuff where you shoot down or from inside you should be building 3-4 thick walls and your main goal is to prevent them from clumping up.  Solo zombies do @%$# all for damage against cobblestone.  But zombies buff other nearby zombies to do more block damage.  So when they pile up its not just 5 zombies doing 5x solo zombie damage, its more like 5 zombies doing 15x solo zombie damage.

The end of my defense I was at a wooden door opening it to empty my machine pipe gun clip semi-auto, then close and reload and kill any inside, repair the door, repeat.  Mixed in power punches when I could to save ammo when there was less than 4 zombies.  Every time I opened the door it was at least like 12 zombies on it and it was half to mostly broken lol.  I haven't had to defend like that more or less since electricity dropped in A16.  Was very tense.  Survived with 40 max hp from all the injuries.  I can tell you heal tanking is 100% dead with injuries taking your max hp down so much.

 

[faatal]

Felling trees doesn't raise the stealth meter at all.  :suspicious:

It probably should. As a creep around at night stealth player, I am thinking zeds should be more attracted to light like a beacon in the night. Having to hide campfires from sight would be fun as I feel like i should have to do that, yet it does not matter currently.