PC Alpha 21 Dev Diary

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Roland said:
Or not—and perhaps people will need to mod the game in order to play it the way they want to
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Again, people should not have to mod the game in order to make it playable, especially not new players who are going to fumble around, give it a couple tries and then decide that they wasted their money. There should be a baseline where it just works the first time you try it no matter how bad you are at the game. 

Right now that baseline is, you get to the trader, you discover that everything is obtainable through dukes and you throw points into better barter and daring adventurer only to later wonder why there are even other perk trees.

I do get it, I've been through the experimental phase 5 times now, and I've been lurking on this forum for nearly as long. It's easy to understand how one could come to the conclusion that everyone just doesn't understand the game well enough to understand how things will actually work out. Sure, people were saying that digging Zs would ruin underground bases, but up until a20 you could dig deep enough to be undetectable, and now with wandering hordes more precisely and more frequently coming close to the player is that still true? It doesn't matter because there are many things that the player can do to circumvent the issue. The player has agency.

On the other hand there is very little the player can do about how far away particularly important books are going to drop or if RNG is going to be kind. The player doesn't have agency. That's why this time it's different.

 
Riamus said:
Anyone tried to get screenshots in A21?  I tried taking 2 today and they are nowhere to be found.  The default location would still be %appdata%\7DaysToDie\Screenshots\, right?  No A21 screenshots are there even though I got the screenshot taken popup from Steam each time.  I even used the search box to look for A21 (A20 screenshots start with A20, so I'd assume A21 screenshots start with A21) and got no results.
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It should put them there, if you use F9 for screenshots. You get the Steam popup, so I think you're using F12 (Steam screenshot) instead? I only get the popup with F12, and those are located in \\Program Files x(86)\Steam\userdata\[steamID?]\760\remote\251570\screenshots (depending on the game, 7DTD's is 251570). If you have steam installed somewhere than the default folder then itll be in that folder instead of Program Files. Unless you are using F9 and I just have the notification turned off, then it should be in your appdata folder!

My question to stay on topic is, where are all the new models and textures located? I hate asking because I feel selfish since they seem to be well-hidden, but I kinda need them for my modlet and I cannot find them anywhere. I want to (faithfully) recreate them, but the vending machines aren't where they used to be. Totally understand if you don't want me doing that again, I can do my best with the screenshots I take in game, but it would seriously help the process along lol 😔

 
Ralathar44 said:
It's risk vs reward.  Even the base game is murdering the fack out of people right now.  The Wastelands is too much for 90% of the community to handle until, ironically, they are more geared.  Reddit has had several threads about the game being more difficult and people dying alot but generally liking the new challenge (with the exception of some zombie crawl/duck/dodge behavior in niche scenarios)
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Now that's an exaggeration to say 90% of the community can't handle a bike ride through the wasteland. We aren't talking about going into a PoI or questing. We are talking getting on a bike or minibike and looting very easy to access vehicles. That is very little risk with very high rewards. The little risk being not paying attention to your surrounding and getting attacked while looting a vehicle.

The game hasn't bumped up that much in difficulty aside from the debuffs occurring alot more often now than before especially the bleeding when taking hits. Mind you I am one who loves that part and tougher zombies appearing earlier. 

 
I've been kicked out from Trader Joel's at 4km from the shop. Is this happened to anybody here? I'm at full capacity and need to walk 4km (dont wanna cheat tho) :')

 
Neminsis said:
Again, people should not have to mod the game in order to make it playable, especially not new players who are going to fumble around, give it a couple tries and then decide that they wasted their money. There should be a baseline where it just works the first time you try it no matter how bad you are at the game. 
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I am sure the novice players will ultimately speak for themselves. They turn up instantly in the forum and on steam as soon as the stable is out. And inevitably (like in every alpha before) TFP will tune down difficulty quite a few steps. It often feels like experimental is the goodie for the veterans and then the multiple stable versions are tuned again to novice players as they enter the "tuning arena"

Neminsis said:
Right now that baseline is, you get to the trader, you discover that everything is obtainable through dukes and you throw points into better barter and

daring adventurer only to later wonder why there are even other perk trees.
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That is not the baseline, that is already optimized play. I don't see any reason why a new (or old) player can't just play any attribute and be happy with it. I would guess most new players will first distribute their points all over (including better barter, but also clubs probably). But then they will notice that the costs increase for the second point in a perk and eventually specc into the attribute that governs the best weapon they found or a weapn they like. Which usually won't be INT

Yes, at the moment doing quests is not optional at the start because without them you have a very hard time getting the money together if you want a filter in the first few days. But the game leads you to a trader and your options there aren't in the hundreds but there are just two options I would assume everyone tries out even if he is new to the game: Buy/sell stuff or get a quest. And they will immediately experience that they get money with doing quests. And they see that the first workstation they can craft will always be the one they want most at the time and that it costs money. There are big flashing signs for the novice player right there to do some quests.

What they probably will have a harder time with is how to get food and water early in the game. Part of the fun learning process we veterans can never experience again. 

And there is a safety net already in the game. The player is factually immortal.

Neminsis said:
I do get it, I've been through the experimental phase 5 times now, and I've been lurking on this forum for nearly as long. It's easy to understand how one could come to the conclusion that everyone just doesn't understand the game well enough to understand how things will actually work out. Sure, people were saying that digging Zs would ruin underground bases, but up until a20 you could dig deep enough to be undetectable, and now with wandering hordes more precisely and more frequently coming close to the player is that still true? It doesn't matter because there are many things that the player can do to circumvent the issue. The player has agency.

On the other hand there is very little the player can do about how far away particularly important books are going to drop or if RNG is going to be kind. The player doesn't have agency. That's why this time it's different.
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I agree somewhat with the workstation magazines but even workstations can be bought at the trader. There is good and bad in the randomness of recipe learning:

BAD: You may be stuck without some essential item and have to work around it or feel like you have no other choice but just look for the magazines for it.

GOOD: You may be stuck without some essential item and work around it 😉. Some people love different challenges each game

GOOD: As recipe learning is automatic you may sometimes have to wait a long time but success is inevitable.

GOOD: Player agency is sitll there in what you actually craft and where you specialize into, not what you can craft. Sure, with workstations there is no real decision, everyone wants every workstation. But with weapons, mods and traps the choice is still there.

BAD: The sequence you get recipes IN a series is always the same, so in that regard the game feels predictable.

GOOD: The sequence you get recipes IN a series is always the same, maybe beneficial for novices players?

 
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So far I like it, no more freakiin jars, cans & bird nests exploding but we should get more feathers because we can't destroy it for more now. I am still trying to figure out where to best find the water filter since it's not craft-able & will really suck if you have to buy 1. Water looks really freakin good but can we tackle that constant concussion syndrome that has always plagued this game.

Overall keeping the survival theme alive in this build for sure & having to go find a puddle of water to lap out of like a dog is again, awesome. I have always wanted survival gear in the inventory like a swiss army knife or canteen like military mess kit to eat or drink. But survival early game is brutal & I keep my world small in the XP versions for new players I suggest no lakes or mountains. Since these builds come very frequent until it's stable I create small worlds in RG. Since you start with little to no stamina I eliminate lakes & mountains & keep the world small since you rarely have time to level up & get vehicles or bases before another build comes. I use XP to figure my early game tactics for the new changes to the game. I do do a build where I use CM & explore the inventory & drive all the new toys before a stable build.

I am really impressed how this game is still as scary as that first time I spawned in the wasteland & a dog killed me. Spooky as hell still...

 
Neminsis said:
Again, people should not have to mod the game in order to make it playable, especially not new players who are going to fumble around, give it a couple tries and then decide that they wasted their money. There should be a baseline where it just works the first time you try it no matter how bad you are at the game. 

Right now that baseline is, you get to the trader, you discover that everything is obtainable through dukes and you throw points into better barter and daring adventurer only to later wonder why there are even other perk trees.

I do get it, I've been through the experimental phase 5 times now, and I've been lurking on this forum for nearly as long. It's easy to understand how one could come to the conclusion that everyone just doesn't understand the game well enough to understand how things will actually work out. Sure, people were saying that digging Zs would ruin underground bases, but up until a20 you could dig deep enough to be undetectable, and now with wandering hordes more precisely and more frequently coming close to the player is that still true? It doesn't matter because there are many things that the player can do to circumvent the issue. The player has agency.

On the other hand there is very little the player can do about how far away particularly important books are going to drop or if RNG is going to be kind. The player doesn't have agency. That's why this time it's different.
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Putting points in BB and DA is a choice and not necessary. I put one point in DA and have had plenty of dukes to buy the crucible and chemstation my trader offered. Obviously I got lucky as it is Day 14 and I now have all of the workstations but that is the joy of RNG. Next playthrough will be different and I will have to make different choices. In A20 I never put points in intellect. I would either find workstation schematics in loot or at the trader or I would buy the workstations. Sometimes it would be day 21 and I still wouldn't have a cement mixer and I would adapt. If you feel that there is only one way to play that is because you have fallen into the min-maxer's trap. You claim players don't have agency but that's not true. It's a choice to be hyper-focused on efficiency. If you just play the game you will stumble into everything you need.

No one needs to mod the game to make it playable. People mod the game to tailor it to their preferences. And you are confused about new players. New players have never played a version of the game where you could dig a giant hole and unlock high tier crafting and workstations. Why would they think they need everything the first week? 

 
GoofMcGee said:
Craftable pool tables.

But in order to play, you need to do a 4 tier quest to find each ball, 2 sticks, and chalk.
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That idea kind of reminds me of @Cranberry Monster's Pinball/Video Game mod, where you can salvage parts from destroyed games to make a "working" game for your base. So, perhaps salvage sticks, chalk, and balls from destroyed tables to feed a recipe for making a pool table for your base.

 
spacepiggio said:
So far I like it, no more freakiin jars, cans & bird nests exploding but we should get more feathers because we can't destroy it for more now.
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Early game before you loot the nest you can chop at it with a stone axe to gather extra feathers. Two or three hits with a level one I think before it explodes.

 
Teezer said:
I've been kicked out from Trader Joel's at 4km from the shop. Is this happened to anybody here? I'm at full capacity and need to walk 4km (dont wanna cheat tho) :')
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This happened to me too!  Trader Rekt kicked me out, it initially spawned me underground, then tried again but I'm several km away, near a trader in the wasteland!! at night, on day two!  Running from zombie bears and ferals all night to finally get back to forest and relative safety.  :D

I haven't posted a bug report because I have changed values in some config XML files and I don't know if that counts as modding or not.

 
So, I got infected right before dark on day one, headed out of town looking for honey in stumps, bad rng and was on day 3 around 10 pm, 15% infection, 3 honey later (5 total to keep it at 15).  BUT I had 350 feather and 36 eggs from wandering around looting nests!! 

Not only was I trying to find honey, but had no coins to buy water so I had to keep stopping at houses in the wilderness to loot some cabinets and toilets for murky water and and some food.  I even got to 10% water, had to make goldenrod tea, drink from water in the bathhouse in the old west town (curing dysentery with aforementioned tea).  I had to wonder around at night looking for the honey of course encountering running Z's.  (on the bright side I found out I could sneak up on a rabbit in the dark to kill it)

Anyway I survived it but it's almost hoard night and I'm behind schedule obviously.  This could end badly lol.

Thanks for the great start TFP!  It has been a blast.

 
I've played nearly a dozen different saves since experimental was released and I have not yet bothered to make a dew collector.  Water is harder to get, and I have to spend more time getting it than in previous alphas, but I don't miss glass jars at all.

The randomness of crafting magazines has been kind of funny...  in my current save I have read 20 Home Cooking Weekly, and only 6 Big Hitters, despite the fact that I have put four skill points into Pummel Pete and only one in Master Chef.  :D   In previous saves, it was other skills that seemed to show up more frequently than others.  I like random, but sometimes it feels like a new kind of enemy.

So far, A21 has been the best one I've played so far (and I started back in A9).

 
Ricowan said:
This happened to me too!  Trader Rekt kicked me out, it initially spawned me underground, then tried again but I'm several km away, near a trader in the wasteland!! at night, on day two!  Running from zombie bears and ferals all night to finally get back to forest and relative safety.  :D

I haven't posted a bug report because I have changed values in some config XML files and I don't know if that counts as modding or not.
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There's already two bug reports on it from what I saw, so they know about it 😄

 
In two playthroughs so far, I have not put a single point in better barter or daring adventure.  You don't have to do that to succeed at playing this game, you just got to play smart and distribute your points according if you want to increase finding specific crafting magazines.

I had a workbench prior to Day 7 since I restarted after the update, and this is with the fact that I spawned next to a small town with not a lot of POIs in it.

Sure, I can't dig a hole in the ground and never leave it and still expect to level up quickly on crafting magazines; but that is extreme conditions and I don't think TFP should cater to extremes, that is what mods are for.

 
So I logged in to the dedicated server and I was Level 1 again. I am disappointed that I lost 4 skill points due to the reset since they are a quest reward and quests didn't get reset which kinda seems like a bug. Anyone of you had the same  "experience"?

Update:

Found an old post in the steam forums ... give your players admin, let them give them the starter quest then you have the 4 points again.

givequest quest_BasicSurvival8

 
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Hello everybody.
I would like to clarify a question about the current water system, will it remain like this?
There are now collectors that generate bottles of clean water, but being able to fill the jars in lakes is a function that becomes routine in survival.

Attention, I don't dislike the function of the collector, but filling the jugs in the lakes is also essential in my point of view.

 
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