PC Alpha 21 Dev Diary

[Petrol_Forever]

I know that I'm a little late to the party, but let's goooo! I've been waiting for the A21 so bad.

Thank you TFP, you're amazing!    

 

[Morloc]

We got a bell?? 

Pimps = Pimps +1

-Arch Necromancer Morloc 

 

[Roland]

My group is still playing - still not liking this magazine thing. 
We've halted work on the base for now as the highest tier item I can craft at this point is the damn workbench and literally none of us are reading any magazines at all, there's a whole 8 human beings out scouring for them and there's just *not* enough to go around for everybody. The ratios are off, loot tables, whatever you want to call it but to sustain a group of more than just 2 or 3 people and make the rate of progression not be a complete snoozefest of just digging through trash piles all day pretty much every thing we loot would need to give us 2 or 3 magazines or more. It's tedious as hell.

Then increase the loot tables above 100%. That is the only way it is going to work if your group insists on everybody reading all the magazines. Most groups are going to specialize and then there is single player. If the magazines were increased to the point that a team of 8 humans can all progress to the top of the same exact crafting trees it would break the game for the groups that are working as a team and for single players.

Most of the feedback coming in is that there are already too many magazines in loot and in rewards. If your group is stuck at low levels of crafting because everyone is reading the same magazines to just craft their own stuff then you probably need to adjust the loot setting in the options menu to fit the playstyle of your group.

 

[Old Crow]

Didn't think we needed to? Every game with a shrinking crosshair over the years does it this way, I thought it was common shooter knowledge.  Did you never notice the crosshair shrink as you aimed? You didn't think anything of it? You can aim at a wall and see impacts and tell the rays do not hit dead center but somewhere inside the crosshair.

And yet you felt we needed a danger meter that can't be toggled on and off.

 

[Gamida]

similarly, if I were to change the positioning from negative to positive, would it put the bars above the level bar again? I really do miss that and while I do use a HUD mod already I actually prefer the vanilla, I just can't see the bars when they're that low (I tend not to look/look over it as if they aren't there)

Sorry, that is about as far as my modding skill goes right now

If you want to try you can ask in the modding section. They have a discussion and request channel.

There are probably modders who could move those bars above the xp bar and make them wider in a few minutes.

 

[Wulf]

Todays's B317 release brings some interesting balance changes.

-Increased water filter cost. Dunno what exactly the thought behind that is, but i'm not sure it really affects me anyway. Money is still too easy to come by if you do quests. (personally i'd rather see a nerf to questing income).

-Lowered the availability of crafting magazines. (book bundle appears less often, the bundle contains less books, and randomly found magazines have their loot chance reduced. Oh boy, looks like we're still progressing too fast guys. What's intended here, stone age tools through the first week? First 3 days? Honest question, because I'm curious.

I'm fine with whatever really, although i would prefer a more prolonged game experience which it seems you guys are aiming for. Not sure i'm in the majority though.

 

[Roland]

No, I don't make a habit of shooting at walls  I'm aware of the shrinking crosshair but the explanation provided made it sound like even if the projectile visually hits a target there is still a skill check as to whether it actually hits and does damage. Perhaps I misunderstood.

If you hit the target you will do damage. There is no skill check that cancels your hit and damage if you actually hit the target. In other words, if you see your projectile hit there is no natural 1 that will then be rolled that will cause you to duff it. Instead, it is a probability of where your projectile will go within the circle of the crosshairs. So the roll happens when you fire the weapon and its trajectory goes toward one of the random points within the circle of your crosshairs. If that point is not on the target then you will miss it.

Unrelated to that seems to be problems with arrows looking like they visually go through the target but act like they are flying past it. I've seen slo mo footage of it and it definitely appears that at times the arrow goes through the head and not near the head. 

And yet you felt we needed a danger meter that can't be toggled on and off.

What does this point have to do with the feature of a shrinking crosshair? Where does the "and yet" part of your sentence make sense with Joel's description of the crosshair area getting smaller when you pause to aim rather than shooting from the hip?

I could see your quip making sense if Joel was explaining that the food and water bars were made super thin to reduce screen presence but I don't get it in this context.

 

[faatal]

Maybe not increased but it's still too much.  You can see this just by being near a closed door with a zombie crawling on the other side.  They can hit you without really any chance of reaching you if you're close.  I mean, if I can barely hit a zombie with a spear, there's no reason they should be able to reach me while on their hands and knees at the same distance.  Hopefully this gets fixed eventually but as it's been a long-standing issue, I'm not too hopeful of it being soon.

Yes, zombie and animal reach is too long, but player reach is also too long. Changing all of these would require a complete rebalance and would feel very different to everyone, so it has been like that for many years as many of us think it is fine. In b317 I reduced the overall zombie reach by 3% to see if that feels different without ruining balance and made a short zombie hand item so they can have a separate Range value and that has about 20% less reach. Network latency also makes this worse.

I use bows a lot and haven't noticed a difference with the primitive bow. That doesn't mean there wasn't a change. I can be pretty oblivious sometimes.

I don't think we changed it and seems the same to me. I prefer agility and use the bow quite a bit.

 

[Roland]

Todays's B317 release brings some interesting balance changes.

-Increased water filter cost. Dunno what exactly the thought behind that is, but i'm not sure it really affects me anyway. Money is still too easy to come by if you do quests. (personally i'd rather see a nerf to questing income).

-Lowered the availability of crafting magazines. (book bundle appears less often, the bundle contains less books, and randomly found magazines have their loot change reduced. Oh boy, looks like we're still progressing too fast guys. What's intended here, stone age through the first week? First 3 days? Honest question.

I don't know how long they want the stone age to last but they do want it to last beyond a few days. They want players to fully explore at least some of the tiers of quality within each tech stage. If players are skipping from brown stone to blue stone to yellow iron all in 2-3 days then all the intermediate tiers are irrelevant. The ideal would be crafting up through all the quality stages because you're spending time in each one.

That said, it does get tougher to get to the top levels later on and I worry that a nerf to stop primitive level rushing might cause some mid game stalling. I'm betting they will likely adjust it back to a bit more generous again once more players get to the midgame and start complaining they can't get their chemistry station unlocked and that they've been stuck on a minibike forever.

Personally, I'd like to see another magazine or two added to each primitive stage advancement and leave the availability of books alone. 

 

[Wulf]

That said, it does get tougher to get to the top levels later on and I worry that a nerf to stop primitive level rushing might cause some mid game stalling. I'm betting they will likely adjust it back to a bit more generous again once more players get to the midgame and start complaining they can't get their chemistry station unlocked and that they've been stuck on a minibike forever.

Yes, i could see that. Although in that case, rebalancing the amount needed to progress in the later stages might be smarter.

 

[faatal]

My group is still playing - still not liking this magazine thing. 
We've halted work on the base for now as the highest tier item I can craft at this point is the damn workbench and literally none of us are reading any magazines at all, there's a whole 8 human beings out scouring for them and there's just *not* enough to go around for everybody. The ratios are off, loot tables, whatever you want to call it but to sustain a group of more than just 2 or 3 people and make the rate of progression not be a complete snoozefest of just digging through trash piles all day pretty much every thing we loot would need to give us 2 or 3 magazines or more. It's tedious as hell.

I'd turn up Loot Abundance.

 

[Old Crow]

What does this point have to do with the feature of a shrinking crosshair? Where does the "and yet" part of your sentence make sense with Joel's description of the crosshair area getting smaller when you pause to aim rather than shooting from the hip?

I could see your quip making sense if Joel was explaining that the food and water bars were made super thin to reduce screen presence but I don't get it in this context.

Joel basically said "we didn't think we needed to explain the bow reticle shrinking to show where it'll hit, because it "should be obvious" but we've been told we can we can't turn off the danger meter. Shouldn't looking at the size of a POI also make the level of danger obvious? Why give a sarcastic "ShOuLdN'T iT Be ObViOuS" for one feature but use another feature to still treat players like we're dumb?

 

[DOAM]

I don't know how long they want the stone age to last but they do want it to last beyond a few days. They want players to fully explore at least some of the tiers of quality within each tech stage. If players are skipping from brown stone to blue stone to yellow iron all in 2-3 days then all the intermediate tiers are irrelevant. The ideal would be crafting up through all the quality stages because you're spending time in each one.

That said, it does get tougher to get to the top levels later on and I worry that a nerf to stop primitive level rushing might cause some mid game stalling. I'm betting they will likely adjust it back to a bit more generous again once more players get to the midgame and start complaining they can't get their chemistry station unlocked and that they've been stuck on a minibike forever.

Personally, I'd like to see another magazine or two added to each primitive stage advancement and leave the availability of books alone. 

My group is looking like they'll skip iron all together. We just chilled on stone for a while long because we didn't wanna bother with glue collectors. Stun baton and 9mm for me, stone sledge and pipe shotty for 2 others, and idk what the other 2 have but it ain't iron. Padded/scrap armor all around. lol I'll be making the crucible when I log in then its on to steel. Should have looted enough water to handle glue needs by now. Maybe someone will take on the tedious task of a massive dew collector farm, and actually collect from it, but it won't be me. I'd rather bash a zombie in the head with stone weapons and padded armor instead.

 

[Amanitasec]

I have never tried voice through the game, which it sounds like you are going?  I use voice through Steam.  If you create a group voice chat, everyone can hear everyone and distance doesn't affect anything as it isn't tired to the game at all.  Of course, if you aren't using Steam, that isn't an option.

Thank you for that tip. We have tested that today and it worked perfectly  

 

[Riamus]

Didn't think we needed to? Every game with a shrinking crosshair over the years does it this way, I thought it was common shooter knowledge.  Did you never notice the crosshair shrink as you aimed? You didn't think anything of it? You can aim at a wall and see impacts and tell the rays do not hit dead center but somewhere inside the crosshair.

I think anyone who plays such games will understand and a few will figure it out but those who don't play that kind of game will most likely assume that you shoot where you aim.  With how easy it is to add a loading screen tip, it might be worth adding a tip about how arrows work.  If it only helps one person, I'd still call that a win since it is so easy to update the tips.

Besides, if we aren't going to explain how arrows work in the game because it is "obvious" then why are we explaining how to build all these things in the starter quest.  Beyond a note on how to open the crafting screen, everything else is "obvious" as well. . Btw, I'm glad we at least got rid of the shirt crafting.  Just wish we could get rid of the block upgrading and campfire placement since you'll rarely ever put your base where you are doing the starter quests.

-Lowered the availability of crafting magazines. (book bundle appears less often, the bundle contains less books, and randomly found magazines have their loot chance reduced. Oh boy, looks like we're still progressing too fast guys. What's intended here, stone age tools through the first week? First 3 days? Honest question, because I'm curious.

I'm fine with whatever really, although i would prefer a more prolonged game experience which it seems you guys are aiming for. Not sure i'm in the majority though.

This is a little concerning in one way and good in another.  There are definitely way more magazines than makes sense.  However, if you want crafting to progress fast enough to be of use instead of being easily outpaced by looting and quest rewards, you either have to lower the number off magazines needed to progress or else have a lot of magazines.  Even in single player, I'm often only keeping close to even in progression compared to looting and questing, if that.  With the reduction, I think I'll not be crafting anymore just like in A20 because it won't progress quickly enough to compare.  Well see, though.

What does this point have to do with the feature of a shrinking crosshair? Where does the "and yet" part of your sentence make sense with Joel's description of the crosshair area getting smaller when you pause to aim rather than shooting from the hip?

I could see your quip making sense if Joel was explaining that the food and water bars were made super thin to reduce screen presence but I don't get it in this context.

I think this was related to madmole saying that gigging an explanation for something that he thinks is obvious isn't needed and yet we got a danger meter to tell us what is pretty obvious.  In both cases, obvious is for veterans but not for new players.

 

[Kosmic Kerman]

I don't know how long they want the stone age to last but they do want it to last beyond a few days. They want players to fully explore at least some of the tiers of quality within each tech stage. If players are skipping from brown stone to blue stone to yellow iron all in 2-3 days then all the intermediate tiers are irrelevant. The ideal would be crafting up through all the quality stages because you're spending time in each one.

That said, it does get tougher to get to the top levels later on and I worry that a nerf to stop primitive level rushing might cause some mid game stalling. I'm betting they will likely adjust it back to a bit more generous again once more players get to the midgame and start complaining they can't get their chemistry station unlocked and that they've been stuck on a minibike forever.

Personally, I'd like to see another magazine or two added to each primitive stage advancement and leave the availability of books alone. 

I think they may be looking at the wrong players. I've been playing since A15 and am reasonably experienced.  I'm on Day 5 (60 min days) and still on stone tools. I hit tier 2 quests on about Day 4.  The best item I have is a blue stone axe which I found in a car in the parking lot of a tier 5 building.  Other than that I have a green club and a Quality 2 pipe machine gun.  And I took the crafting magazine bundle for each reward. I'd tell you where my crafting skills were but can't because the recent update reset my character to 0 skills and perk points.

The biggest progression issue I've run into is a lack of mechanical parts to be able to craft a wrench. Neither of the two traders had mech parts in their inventories and you need a wrench in order to get mechanical parts from anything (save for some odd ball things like Wild West Coaches and Church Bells).

I think Riamus is right that if they slow down progression, trader rewards will outstrip crafting again.

 

[Blake_]

I'd turn up Loot Abundance.

I find the default abundance crazy high. 25% loot is already quite enough in a21. I would like to ask for less abundance in the  options, kind sir, like 10% or 12 % or stuff like that. I mean, for those who play alone is understandable, but we are 3 and still swimming in loot with 25%. There can be 500% loot too for the hoarders.

Water survival is awesome, magazine progression is amazing (though they are a bit too abundant) , congrats to @madmole and the team for this jewel of a design and execution, simple yet incredibly engaging.

What I find lacking: the UI. The aging parts of it paired with new but weird "POI title boxes" makes for a mixed feeling while they pop up or in general. status effects are better.

 

[Riamus]

For me, I'll skip quality 1 and 2  (maybe 3) for iron and steel every time when crafting.  It doesn't matter what is fine with the magazines.  First, a quality 1 is most likely worse than the previous tier quality 5 or at most only slightly better and the stamina costs are much worse.  Second, there just aren't enough parts to warrant crafting multiple versions.

I also think some magazines need to be combined.  Having a magazine only teach you two things even with different levels of quality just feels bad and increases the number of different magazines we have to deal with for no good reason.  There is no reason some can't be combined to reduce the number of different magazines.  Also, these should all attack to 100.  No reason if we want to wait to use them that they need to take up so much space.  Just having all the different magazines is a space hog as it is without having multiple stacks of each.

 

[meganoth]

This is a little concerning in one way and good in another.  There are definitely way more magazines than makes sense.  However, if you want crafting to progress fast enough to be of use instead of being easily outpaced by looting and quest rewards, you either have to lower the number off magazines needed to progress or else have a lot of magazines.  Even in single player, I'm often only keeping close to even in progression compared to looting and questing, if that.  With the reduction, I think I'll not be crafting anymore just like in A20 because it won't progress quickly enough to compare.  Well see, though.

The game is setup for 1 to 8 players. If the players actually cooperate then 8 players will probably be ~5 times faster at crafting progression than a single player. And a major reason is that 8 players get 8 times the quest rewards for a quest than a single player and in each quest reward is a guaranteed magazine pack. While the amount of magazines they found in the POI is fixed no matter how many players there are.

I am playing in a group of 4 and we hardly had any time in the game. We are just on day 4 or 5 and I can craft tier 1 quality 5 weapons while loot is somewhere at tier0 quality 3.  Though the progress is very random, it seems I was lucky with the drops.

So for me the conclusion is that TFPs decision to put less magazines into the quest reward is absolutely correct and severly needed. And I except they need to reduce it even further.

My suggestion would be to change the magazine reward into showing the specific magazines you get, because then players in large groups will more often select a different reward that benefits them directly instead of picking the magazines that someone else wants.

 

[Dtfauss]

The game is setup for 1 to 8 players. If the players actually cooperate then 8 players will probably be ~5 times faster at crafting progression than a single player. And a major reason is that 8 players get 8 times the quest rewards for a quest than a single player and in each quest reward is a guaranteed magazine pack. While the amount of magazines they found in the POI is fixed no matter how many players there are.

I am playing in a group of 4 and we hardly had any time in the game. We are just on day 4 or 5 and I can craft tier 1 quality 5 weapons while loot is somewhere at tier0 quality 3.  Though the progress is very random, it seems I was lucky with the drops.

So for me the conclusion is that TFPs decision to put less magazines into the quest reward is absolutely correct and severly needed. And I except they need to reduce it even further.

My suggestion would be to change the magazine reward into showing the specific magazines you get, because then players in large groups will more often select a different reward that benefits them directly instead of picking the magazines that someone else wants.

I like the idea of showing the magazines. I suspect the reason people are taking them from quest rewards isn't just the quantity, but it's  also because they are exploring this 'new' learn by magazine system and getting a feel for it. I suspect after the learning curve and newness wears off people will go back to selecting other quest rewards more often.