PC Alpha 21 Dev Diary

[Old Crow]

One big complaint I have so far is.. good lort it gets ridiculously dark when it rains during the day. Like, nighttime levels of darkness.

 

[Thaledwyn]

Regarding trader quest reward balancing:

I got a level 3 iron spear as reward while I could only craft a level 4 stone (0 points spent in daring adventurer).

So it still feels like crafting is behind (like in A20 where you got all of your level 5/6 steel armor as quest reward/loot before being able to craft even one)

But could be also just good RNG

We will see.

 

[Mister Forgash]

The game-mechanic that says "if you cant craft it - you cant repair it" is more logical to me. 

Can you imagine this in Co-op? You throw some tools together for your buddy and head out to do a PoI, before you know it, teammate is asking you to come home and repair their tools.

I'm thinking loot/trader stage just needs to be nerfed to achieve the similar result of not having gear much better than what you can craft.

 

[Aerial]

I absolutely love the new update.  It feels like a survival game again.  I'm still in very early game so I haven't seen any significant imbalance in tool/weapon progression.  I did find a tier 6 helmet on day 2, which honestly felt great given how much of a struggle everything else was (in a good way), but that was random loot, not the trader.  (For context, this game is a 2 player co-op, Warrior difficulty, no mods.  And we're little old people; experienced but not particularly great gamers.)

The quality-of-life improvements are amazing!  All the little annoying things I used to do (destroying nests and trash, labeling each trader) are done automatically now and it makes me so happy.

The new art assets and textures are really sharp.  I'm not usually one to care much about the "look" of a game, but the quality and detail of the new assets really adds to the game, so much so that even I noticed.

 

[Exxodous]

Playing Co-op with the wife and so far Great Job Fun Pimps!!!  

Performance is considerably better on my rig and it's 5 years old.

New art and POIs are great

Dismemberment is fantastic and funny as hell

*&%$*ing zombies eating my kills is fabulous. lol

We're on day 4 and I've crafted more tools and weapons than most entire playthroughs already....NICE  We will actually craft our bikes instead of taking the trader reward bike.  That hasn't happened in my playthroughs in a hot minute.

Food and water have been a challenge so far. We were excited to be able to make corn bread.  When was the last time that happened? .... Never.   By night fall we are both hungry and thirsty.  Getting the water filter was easy enough then we realized we hadn't been keeping plastic....Oops 

No cans or jars cluttering up my inventory is great.  I hated scrapping a can every time I ate.

OMG DOORS!!!! Makes the world so much more realistic!

A21 was worth the wait for the hatches with the arrows alone! lol

New work stations are awesome.

Houses with names instead of Oldhouse546125464.  I mean, c'mon who can't love that?

Magazines have been fun in my opinion, not sure why there's been some hate on them.  I'm enjoying spending my skill points on things other than recipes to be honest.

Just my opinions on day 4, Good job to all that brought us this build!

 

[Teezer]

So here is my first impression :

Map : 10k generated

Pros :

- Finally the game feel more optimized than never... for now, I didn't experienced with a good crowd of zombies.

- Was very surprised about headshots with blunt weapons leaving the skull crack opened and overall dismembering 

- Graphic environment much much better, keep it up, continue this way and add more and more of this kind of content!

- Good job for water overhaul 

- Early difficulty is very challenging and it's a good thing

- Lot of new POIs

- RWG looks fine, cities are huge and that's very nice

- Lights look polished again, despite some bugs in buildings. Also it would be cool to create a more realistic light outside

- We can finally "swim"

- All these new animations (doors) are lit, keep it up!

- I was stunned about the Joel's shop design, it's super great

- Vehicles look very good

Cons/Progress to be made :

- Not a fan of the new skill book system yet

- UI not reworked, there are tons of way to make UI look badass and enjoyable.

- Zombies and zombie movements look too familiar, really need to add diversity and polishing animation (jump, rush) to make it scarier

- No graphic changes when items break or used (blood stain etc)

- I found it very cool that empty props stay open when empty, but very sad that we can't use it anymore then after.

- Should add [SIZE=14.6px]animation[/SIZE] for cabinet closing/opening

- Grass and natural ambient still look meh/20

- Should add some animation to zombies faces, they still look very mechanic

- I dont feel safe when zombies can pass through big doors during opening/closing animation lol, need to fix that

- Shop too op for the beginning, should decrease the amount of offers

- What did you do with the eating sound?? Need to add real animations about eating..

I've just played 2 hours so far but it's a great update!

(I hope i'll be alive to play the A22 version tho)

 

[Laz Man]

nvm moot point, I can't randomly generate any world, as I keep getting an "out of memory" error.

Hi jdzane, click the A21 banner above on how to submit a bug report if you haven't done so already.  I think there is a known issue with running out of memory if you generate too many maps back to back without exiting.

Regarding the no trader issue, we will need your map info. / seed.  Thanks.

Thanks, I'll give that another try. I had quit and restarted after each one. I think it may also be my fault, my D drive (where 7D2D is) had less than 10 gb of free space, and my C drive (windows location) had less than 2 GB free. I'm clearing up some space, then I'll do a restart, kill the BS I don't need running in the background, and then try again. 

Glad to know it's a known bug though.

You may want to clear out some old generated maps pre A21.  I know those take up alot of space.

Stored somewhere like...

App data / roaming / 7d2d / generated worlds

Just make sure to backup any old saves or worlds you plan to keep.

 

[mstdv inc]

I decided not to rush anywhere. I'm betting 25% experience and 25% loot. Day 60 minutes. At night I study changes in perks and crafting. 
The 4th day has come. I have problems with water, with food, with stamina, with resources. 
The horde will come in 3 days. I don't even have 100 arrows. 
Panic! I feel extremely uncomfortable, and I like it!

 

[hiloboys]

They are a combination that goes together to meet a general performance target. Moving any setting lower from a preset is not bad and should simply increase performance.

That should not be the case, but I'm curious to see how it runs for you.

My Biggest fears were warranted unfortunately. Last tested medium settings game was playable on medium with around 22-28 fps. And no delay when using mouse to move. Also XBOX One Elite controller use had no issues or major delays at all. 

After updating to A21 Game was stuttering giving me less than 10 fps with noticeable mouse delay. Also the xbox elite controller barely functions it would accept a command like look up and then continue to look up and never accept another command till several seconds later. (such as look left or right) 

Changed all settings slowly down from medium to lowest (medium, low, then lowest) Slight fps improvement (almost 18 fps at lowest and minimal mouse delay) however xbox one elite controller still had same issue of accepting one command such as looking in a direction and be non responsive for several seconds. (basically unplayable with controller unfortunately) 

All my drivers are up to date and ive tested various settings to see if it helps, but unfortunately I am not able to play A21 in an enjoyable way. I cringe to see what happens if I was to make it to a blood moon night. (Game is launched and hosted on the laptop and has default value for hordes, etc. ) All previous saves were deleted as well. I uninstalled completely and removed all mods, had game install with the current A20 so it was a pristine clean ideal installation example and then updated to A21. 

Optimized laptop to dedicate all its resources to 7d2d. 

Laptop Specs:

2.8 GHz Intel Core i7-7700HQ Quad-Core.

16GB DDR4 RAM | 1TB 7200 rpm HDD.

17.3" 1920 x 1080 Anti-Glare Display.

NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1050 (4GB GDDR5)

Windows 10 Home (64-Bit)

Task manager shows while in lowest settings mode:

7d2d Usage (well its both the 7DaysToDie.exe as well as the UnityCrashHandler64.exe combined into one, but the crash handler doesnt use much of each)

26% cpu usage and 46% (3,252mb and climbing)memory 

If you need any other information, please let me know. Thanks! 

 

[khzmusik]

Hi jdzane, click the A21 banner above on how to submit a bug report if you haven't done so already.  I think there is a known issue with running out of memory if you generate too many maps back to back without exiting.

Just FYI, this sounds like exactly the same issue I reported last night. RWG results in "Out of memory" errors, even when there are gigabytes of memory available.

It happens every time for me, and has nothing to do with generating more than one map. I have had zero success generating any random world at all.

 

[Matt115]

Will be skeletons props in A21?

 

[Khissi]

For testing purposes and because I'm a total weenie (shut it!), I have perk points set to 2 per level, Adv. diff, 175% xp, 120 days, 200% loot and, on day 6, I've hit level 21, still only have tier 4 stone tool ability, tier 5 stone spear (can make a tier 1 iron but, ew) and various strange weirdness for magazines.  I mean, already 23 in electrical?  wha....  I managed to loot a tier 6 pipe machine gun and might have enough ammo to supplement using the spear in a melee focused horde base with pipe bombs and Molotovs to boot.  I've found 4 traders on a random gen 6k map (still on a bicycle) and wow... just wow, the infested quests are nothing to sneeze at when you're wielding stone, pipe guns and a primitive bow, wearing cloth. Talk about bleeds and cuts and.. yeah, keep on sending me to the snow biome, Joel... arse.

Even with settings so focused on quick advancement, exploration trumps mining for this particular play through since the new and refurbished POIs are just shining beacons tugging at my soul, and sometimes actually eating it.  I'm sorely tempted to turn off horde just to keep exploring but I have to keep reminding myself that the 'new' will still be there even when we get the next build drop and I delete this map to have a clean install.  Probably do an 8k next time.

Kudos, guys!  It's the little things that are blowing me away and I just wanna hug every overworked developer and planner and thank you for all the effort that went into this build. I am NOT finding exceptionally 'out-of-level' loot and the traders don't appear to be selling exceptional stuff even with a couple points put into Daring Adventurer and Better Barter. All you nay-sayers need to get out there and PLAY!  Get into solo if you think it's too easy and adjust the settings until you're in pain or comfortable.  I keep seeing people talking about things needing to be nerfed?  Hell, I have all the stuff turned way up and STILL behind what I'd normally be doing though, with 2 perks per, I've been spreading the points out more than normal.  I'm old too, though, so there's that.  God, I'm loving this!

 

[meilodasreh]

still alive, barely, and staring down the day 7 horde (vanilla settings with 200% xp just to hurry things along a little) badly under equipped and under prepared. should be interesting.

200% xp adds to difficulty, beacuse you level up fast, and so does your gamestage rise, which makes enemies tougher, whilst your equipment mostly won't keep up with that.

In short: boosting xp gain messes up balancing a good bit.

At least the very first horde night is especially tough then. Good luck!

 

[Balda]

what about <objective type="ZombieKill" value="3" phase="1"/>
Type "ZombieKill" no longer works

 

[meganoth]

Look, these perfect players that you keep going on about, I'm not sure they even exist outside of vague rumors in chatrooms and message boards.

Hey, I am sure this isn't on purpose, but you are strawmaning me here. Where did I ever ask for perfection? Is it perfection now if people play cooperatively? In that case my group of 4 people, each of which died at least once on our first day in A21, are perfect players. They'll be glad to know but probably surprised.

It isn't even necessary for a "co-op looter" to bring back any magazines on the first day and instead read them or throw them away. The first day is especially hard for our small inventories, no bag mods yet, and the user is usually trying to join the group which is often 1-3 kms away. It doesn't really matter if a few of the magazines get lost.

Even if he sometimes drops those magazines in later game when he has so much more important stuff in his inventory (though what stuff should that be really?), that makes only a marginal difference in how advanced the builder or builders in the group will be. The builders generally will not feel any difference in their XP gaining speed when they get the upgrade from a quality4 to a quality5 iron pickaxe a day later. Doubly that if they already have a quality3 steel pickaxe bought at the trader.

But if the looter doesn't **generally** bring back magazines the builders absolutely need or ask for (for example the farming and electrical traps magazines) then he is not even half-competent, he is an absolut loser at playing co-op, sorry to say. Fighting together and getting stuff to the people who want that stuff are the two big areas of co-operation in a game, what else do you think co-op play is about?

I'm saying that perfectly normal average players are going to be incentivized to read all the books by the sheer volume of books, the longer distances between quests now, and the initial scarcity of food and water, and that it's likely possible to allow stay at home players to be effective without changing game mechanics, without affecting the balance for everyone else, or relying on everyone to suddenly become those legendary perfect teammates.

If for example the exp gain on gathering tasks were bumped up a little, the prices to sell bulk materials were a little better, if the trader carried cheap low tier tools, if tool crafting books in particular were more readily available at the trader specifically. None of that changes game mechanics. or affects the game balance for anyone else, or requires new code and could probably be done in minutes with a few xml tweaks. Ideally you should be able to make it through the first 7 days without having to quest at all as a solo player. You could do it in a20 but then tool upgrades were way too easy to come by in the previous system. They don't need to be that easy for this to be viable.

All possible balancing changes, and remember I mentioned that xp gain could be increased if necessary for balance. But ideally we should talk about measures once it is established that there is a problem at all. Right now I can't imagine your group has already tested A21 and determined they can't adapt to it and there is something wrong. You may fear or expect it but unless YOU are perfect you simply can't know. No matter in how many minutes that change could be done, you will surely not get anyone from TFP to make it right now.

Thanks for repeating my argument for why looters aren't incentivized to not read all of the books themselves and consequently why your legendary perfect teammate doesn't actually solve the problem.

My statement was about tool magazines and you infere from this something about all magazines? Come on, logic 101.

The looter can read tools magazines and it will not make a yota of a difference to the builders. The looter can not read the traps or seeds magazines without it heavily affecting the builders/farmers. And the looter is incentivized to bring back those magazines. I don't know how to say it any simpler.

The problem for the stay at home player is ultimately exp gain. Yes, shared exp offsets this somewhat, but because the trader now avoids sending you on duplicate missions and there has been a focus on more wilderness quests, the looter is going to be out of range a lot sooner than you might expect, and even so the exp gain from quest rewards and selling to the trader is still the favor the looter.

A theory and a possibility, except that with the looters out of share range. Roland reminded us that there is an option for PartySharedKillRange. When you can set the range who cares where the trader sends them.

Balancing changes may be coming after some playtesting. Or maybe builders do find out that it doesn't matter that they are only level 35 when the looter is already level 40. Or the builders find out that some mechanism in the game allows them to build and be happy in A21 by just doing something a little different. I don't know. Must be playtested.

Not at all, it really doesn't need to be as mind numbingly easy as it was in previous versions and I'm not seeking any shortcuts. If you think it's taking the easy route try putting a point into better barter, miner 69er, motherload, salvage operations and then see how well you can lvl without questing at all. That's pretty much the optimal build for it. If it helps you get into the right mindset, pump it up to Insane so that you're incentivized to avoid the majority of fights until you've crafted better equipment, and are limited to grabbing what you can off the streets. 

My "easy route" comment was specifically about the tools progression. If you are fine with slowly progressing from stone to iron to steel tools, that is what A21 is or should be. How much influence that has on xp gaining is again to be determined by playtesting and can then be adjusted. 

This is essentially what it's like for a lot of players and why many opt to stay at the base soaking up shared exp until they've leveled high enough, and are equipped enough to survive tier 1 quests without dying. I'm not suggesting any shortcuts to progression at all, just giving a certain subset of players more options and agency without having to rely entirely on handouts. It really doesn't serve team building to have some players advance faster than others, does it?

PartySharedKillRange exists for that subset of players. There is your option.

And the trader may be the other big option as it seems from first feedback that the traders are OP as always. Remember that magazines are only determining what you craft. A builder doesn't care about what pickaxe he can craft when he can buy a better pickaxe at the trader. 

 

[Jay_ombie]

Need some advice and help with regards performance and onscreen FPS.

At first game seems very smooth, no more stutter or jumps when zombies spawn in now.

But, with 31% CPU and 42% GPU 58% Memory from a locked 72fps MAX system I suddenly noticed when say in a built up area it drops to the 20fps.

I can spin about and it go up a bit maybe 10FPS keeping in same position on the map.

System :

Windows 10

16GB Ram

Ryzen 7 3700X

GTX 3080ti

Looking at things nothing is pushed at all, its not graphic settings I as I can lower options and exactly same issue, besides like I say GPU isn't battering a eye at this game. I know we had something like this in the previous build and could be same situation with the game engine I think.

 

[PoloPoPo]

New Alpha but Zombies still able to partially glitch and hit through bars, doors, hatches... 

 

[Jay_ombie]

New Alpha but Zombies still able to partially glitch and hit through bars, doors, hatches... 

I think that's limitations on the unity engine. 

It just happened to me where I was silent/crouched with a closed door behind me and just get attacked through the door completely random like.

 

[Mister Forgash]

Two player teams are a whole lot more common a playstyle than that. 

Yes, there is nothing extreme about a two player team unless...

Here's the challenge: 2 players on Navezgane, Survivalist, 1 player does not quest only gathers, builds and sells bulk craftables to the trader, and see where you are by day 7.

 With so much loot being found in PoI - loot that you really need in the early game: Food, water, medical supplies, cooking pots, ect. it's going to be a very difficult playthrough, and yes, it is an extremist playstyle.

I don't see it as that much different from loading up Final Fantasy 1, killing off 3 of the 4 starting team members and playing a solo blackbelt build. It'll take 5x as long and yes, you would have to reload, probably multiple times, every time you're up against enemies that could give you debilitating status effects. Some players enjoy that kind of thing, putting restrictions on themselves for the sake of fun or challenge.

In this game, it sounds about as fun to me as shooting myself in the foot. I have no desire to play your challenge, but it sounds like it's something you do regularly. Let all of us know in what ways it's better and worse with this Alpha- Tell us how different it is now from where you normally end up on day 7. Let us know in what ways you had to change up your tactics or if you're just doing all the same things that worked before.

With the way things have changed, I think all of us will have to make changes too- but some more than others.

 

[spiritking]

What's the typical timeline until a21 comes out of experimental. Trying to take my vacation around the 1st week of that coming out so I can play all week lol