PC Alpha 21 Dev Diary

[Aldranon]

Honestly I think it's just because everyone is playing it as it feels new with the changes. I don't necessarily think it's going to be the best build in the long run

Thats good! 

But I must say as finding skill books are now half of player progression, a perception build can easily get twice as many skill books!  That alone would be enough, but there are other things... 

Edit: UPDATE: the Streamer said he doubled all loot so it's not as amazing as I thought.  Perception is still a solid choice now, however.

 

[OgreSlayeR]

We have made about 30 changes over the weekend. Mostly minor bug fixes and balance changes, but a few major bug fixes like randomly disappearing nav icons after a few deaths or crashing when putting a charged stun baton in a container. The last build was started just a few hours ago for the icon fix, so we will be doing final testing in the morning.

Nice to hear, I hope the balance changes are directed at the trader cause they seem a bit out of wack with the intended slowing of progression.

I saw one streamer take Daring Adventurer for example and he managed a tier 3 Auto Shotgun by around day 12. That seems pretty soon.. and I also saw another get a tier 3 Steel Spear around day 10.

I think the traders definitely need a nerf or at least the Daring Adventurer perk cause getting items like that early and skipping progression is a bit silly..

Otherwise this alpha is looking really great.

 

[RipClaw]

Nice to hear, I hope the balance changes are directed at the trader cause they seem a bit out of wack with the intended slowing of progression.

This is due to the new trader stage and how it is calculated. A large factor in the trader stage are Daring Adventurer and the quest tier at this particular trader.

Daring Adventurer is basically the new Better Barter and the new meta is to put as many points as possible into Daring Adventurer early on and to spam quests.

 

[OgreSlayeR]

This is due to the new trader stage and how it is calculated. A large factor in the trader stage are Daring Adventurer and the quest tier at this particular trader.

Daring Adventurer is basically the new Better Barter and the new meta is to put as many points as possible into Daring Adventurer early on and to spam quests.

My suggestion would be for the change Daring Adventurer to not affect the trader stage, but rather the rewards you receive.

For example, maybe it could be a bonus if you get 100 9mm ammo listed as a reward maybe you could receive 200 instead at max rank or something like that. It shouldn't be the meta choice every time like it is currently, but could offer a nice bonus.

Also maybe traders could offer gun/weapon parts as a reward rather than just straight weapons? Just a thought.

 

[Aldranon]

This is due to the new trader stage and how it is calculated. A large factor in the trader stage are Daring Adventurer and the quest tier at this particular trader.

Daring Adventurer is basically the new Better Barter and the new meta is to put as many points as possible into Daring Adventurer early on and to spam quests.

Ahh, maybe that was what I was seeing, the guy received a skill book set from the trader and received 3 sets of 6 books vs 3 sets of 3 books.

 

[Doomofman]

I hope one of the fixes in the exp release build is for that weird animation bug when switching between weapons. It's been the most obvious bug I've seen, not game breaking in any way but very in your face all the same

 

[RipClaw]

Ahh, maybe that was what I was seeing, the guy received a skill book set from the trader and received 3 sets of 6 books vs 3 sets of 3 books.

Maybe. Daring Adventurer affects now the trader inventory like Better Barter did with the secret stash. Every point in Daring Adventurer adds 10 points to the trader stage.

According to WaywardEko is the formula for the trader stage "player level * (1+trader quest level) + (Daring Adventurer level * 10)".

If you put one of your 4 starting points into Daring Adventurer you will be already on trader stage 11 on your first day. Without Daring Adventurer and without doing quests you would need to be level 11 to see the same trader inventory.

 

[meganoth]

...sigh... its hard living in the future...

At least you have the realistic option of flying over the date line and get the game one day earlier

@Roland

Since the player needs to find books / comics to level up the crafting skill and it takes some time to find all books of one item, it is not most likely that I will find, for example, a steel sledgehammer before I can even craft one myself? This would take away the feelings of happiness for the next slegehammer Upgrades since I already have a good one. Feels trivial in this case then. 

In A20 you needed the steel sledgehammer book before you could craft any. Whether you find an item or can craft it was very random but skewed to finding it first in A20. In A21 the progression should be smoother with more steps of upgrade and easier to balance for TFP. So likely you will get to craft better weapons a lot more than in A20.

The trader will sell parts more often than complete weapons, so this is another step in the direction for more crafting

I would like a game-mechanic where I cant repair any item that Im not able to craft myself, so I am "Lucky" when I find a good sledgehammer and use it wisely. 

This is an often discussed topic with many players very much for or against it. TFP seems to have decided to make items easily repairable, but there surely will be a few mods that will provide that game mechanic

If it's already a game-mechanic, im sorry haha. 

Maybe I missed some Information in this massive forum.

However, watched the Streamer weekend and im hyped for the next alpha

 

[Neminsis]

Maybe then the looter has learned his lesson.

Maybe, but did you notice that none of those things are going to happen during the first 7 days? I mean, where did that overfilled box of food come from in your scenario? It takes seconds to queue anything on any workstation and then you can just walk away. 

At the beginning of this conversation I used tool crafting as an example specifically because the looters do have a self interest in wanting better tools in order to breach pois quicker. Which puts them in direct competition with the lumberjack, the miner and the builder in that first 7 days, and since you can craft them in your inventory up until iron...why wouldn't you? Sure, eventually the mistake will become obvious, or maybe not because by that time the looter is already flush with dukes and can just get what they need from the trader. 

The other part of this that everyone seems to be ignoring is that a strict gatherer needs those better stone tools in order to keep up with the exp gain of someone who is looting, and remember that pois are much more spread out at the beginning and most quests will take the looter outside of exp sharing range. I know that TFP have put some thought into this in advance because of the ability to sell bulk raw materials and crafted items like stone arrows to the trader, it's just not quite there yet. 

 

[meganoth]

Maybe, but did you notice that none of those things are going to happen during the first 7 days? I mean, where did that overfilled box of food come from in your scenario? It takes seconds to queue anything on any workstation and then you can just walk away. 

Sure, the learning curve may extend to two playthroughs. Replayable games are fun because you can always learn something new and apply it to the next run. 

And sure there will be a few idiots who won't learn anything from it. Should the game be balanced for them? Or for the majority (probably) who knows how to play co-op and learns how to put down a few storage chests in the streets to combat full inventories.

At the beginning of this conversation I used tool crafting as an example specifically because the looters do have a self interest in wanting better tools in order to breach pois quicker. Which puts them in direct competition with the lumberjack, the miner and the builder in that first 7 days, and since you can craft them in your inventory up until iron...why wouldn't you? Sure, eventually the mistake will become obvious, or maybe not because by that time the looter is already flush with dukes and can just get what they need from the trader. 

Tools really are a bad example because it **really** doesn't matter who learns to craft them. The builders won't have any disadvantages if the looter simply reads the tools magazines and crafts the new tools as soon as he is able to.

There isn't even any additional delay because either the looter comes back with magazines in the evening or with the ability to craft the tool. And since progression is smoother now he will just get a scrap pickaxe of quality 4 when he is already using a quality 3 scrap pickaxe at a minimum.

The only person who could feel bad about this is a player who wants to be a crafter as main occupation or wants the satisfaction of crafting his tools by himself. But crafter as main job wasn't really an option in A20 and won't be one in A21.

The other part of this that everyone seems to be ignoring is that a strict gatherer needs those better stone tools in order to keep up with the exp gain of someone who is looting, and remember that pois are much more spread out at the beginning and most quests will take the looter outside of exp sharing range. I know that TFP have put some thought into this in advance because of the ability to sell bulk raw materials and crafted items like stone arrows to the trader, it's just not quite there yet. 

Xp and xp sharing has nothing to do with the topic of magazines and crafting progression. Even idiot looters who don't understand co-op and read all magazines will happily craft the better tools for the builders at home as soon as they come home (which would be the same time as the intelligent looters would return home to drop off the magazines needed by builders for crafting their better tools). Tools crafted by idiot looters are exactly as good and sharp as tools crafted by builders themselves

 

[Snif]

Even idiot looters who don't understand co-op and read all magazines will happily craft the better tools for the builders at home as soon as they come home (which would be the same time as the intelligent looters would return home to drop off the magazines needed by builders for crafting their better tools). Tools crafted by idiot looters are exactly as good and sharp as tools crafted by builders themselves

Based on what I've seen in streams, there are so many books/magazines that they fill the inventory in no time and it would take a lot of time to stop and figure out what does what and who needs what. Better to be the idiot and just get rid of them by reading them.

But, need to play the game first to make that determination. Based on streams the amount is overwhelming. I totally understand the consequences for those who stay at base, building and mining. Interesting mechanic anyway that will require new gameplay styles.

 

[meganoth]

Based on what I've seen in streams, there are so many books/magazines that they fill the inventory in no time and it would take a lot of time to stop and figure out what does what and who needs what. Better to be the idiot and just get rid of them by reading them.

But, need to play the game first to make that determination. Based on streams the amount is overwhelming. I totally understand the consequences for those who stay at base, building and mining. Interesting mechanic anyway that will require new gameplay styles.

Yes. Maybe there will be even groups where the looter just puts magazines in storage chest somewhere and asks the builder to collect them at this place. But generally I think magazines are the "gold" of early scrounging while you don't need lead or brass this early in the game. I'm sure most groups will leave other stuff behind in storage chests and bring back the magazines that the others need.

Figuring out what magazine does what is just a learning process of a few hours or days. Similar to books, I don't think anyone who played 7d2d has a problem with immediately associating "The Art of Mining" book icon with the strength player/builder.

 

[Blake_]

After looking at some streams, I noticed a few things (I watched a few streamers and compiled a few bits from all of them):

A21 is quite polished, yet it has a few inconsistencies:

.Some cabinets do not stay open when looted.

.Some visual inconsistencies with water, but way better than before.

.Some popping where it should't be (some vehicles don't have a great LOD distance on higher settings, or weird distances at lower ones).

.Magazines are too buffed. They are too abundant, resulting in an even faster progression than in a20, which is totally avoidable. maybe reduce them like in half?

.Steel weapons by day 10-12? Not even power leveling, oops.

.Water filters are a bit too abundant too. They need a bit of a nerf, specially at the trader (5 filters on day 1?, come on!)

.Reloading animation bug for double barrel shotgun (reported in the alpha 21 pool with video proof).

That's it for now.  I hope that helps!

 

[RipClaw]

.Steel weapons by day 10-12? Not even power leveling, oops.

Bought from the trader ? That is probably due to the trader stage and Daring Adventurer as explained here

 

[Thaledwyn]

I can't be the only one checking Steam for the A21 experimental several times per hour...

 

[Doomofman]

I can't be the only one checking Steam for the A21 experimental several times per hour...

It's likely at least 6 hours away but probably a bit longer

 

[Wulf]

I believe some streamers were playing with increased xp gains (up to 300%) so that would result in them being higher level than normal. Tradersstage (like gamestage en lootstage) is dependant on player level.That explains why you're seeing steelweapon at day 12ish.

But it could still be in need of further tweaks of course.

 

[Doomofman]

Streamer I watch is on 100% XP and by going full on into Daring Adventurer has a Q6 Steel Spear by day 15 or so

 

[RipClaw]

I believe some streamers were playing with increased xp gains (up to 300%) so that would result in them being higher level than normal. Tradersstage (like gamestage en lootstage) is dependant on player level.

Yes the player level is a factor but early on not the biggest. I know from at least one streamer that played on default settings and bought a Q3 steel spear on day 8. You can tell from the XP a player get when he kills a zombie if he plays on default XP or not.

https://www.youtube.com/live/XzAKIzkGXvc?feature=share&t=4010 (1:06:50)

At 1:10:40 he showed his level and explained how to calculate the trader stage.

He was at level 17, quest tier 2 and had 2 points in Daring Adventurer at this point in time. That resulted in a total trader stage of 71.

 

[Aldranon]

Streamer I watch is on 100% XP and by going full on into Daring Adventurer has a Q6 Steel Spear by day 15 or so

OK, even I think that's too OP.

IMO the spear is now the best melee weapon because it's hard for zombies to hit you (3+ meter range) if you have room to maneuver.  And that is the weakness and the appeal of a perception build for me.