PC Alpha 21 Dev Diary

[Riamus]

Nevertheless, I have the impression that fewer and fewer players build a base and more and more fall back on prefabs.

Based on what? How big is your statistical data pool?

My impression, based on me playing the game, is the opposite of yours then. How curious!  :rolleyes2:

Jost Amman's response is perfect here.  What is your data that suggests this?  Your impression may be based only on your own playstyle or the playstyle of the limited number of people you might play the game with.  As I had mentioned, the forum is filled with people complaining about the magazines because they like to build their own bases, which goes against your stated impression.

And regarding magazines, they only affect crafting.  If someone is playing solo, then they may want to craft things and may need to spend time getting magazines, yes.  But they will also most likely be scavenging and/or questing already for other things they need in order to build their base, so they are going to be able to acquire magazines while doing what they are already doing.  Maybe it'll take a bit more effort to get some of the higher unlocks but that isn't likely to make many people (if any) change from building their own base to using a POI.  And for multiplayer, the base builders usually don't need to craft things unless they want to and so will not need those magazines at all.

In short, if people like building their own bases, they are going to continue to do so.  If they prefer the "easy" route of updating a POI, then they'll continue to choose that route.  Some will alternate and some will end up changing when they get bored of one route or the other but more POI isn't really going to affect that to any noticeable extent.  And when it comes down to it, it doesn't really matter.  People can play the game in whatever way they like.  It doesn't matter if they choose POI or choose to build a base.  As long as they enjoy it, there's no reason to be concerned about it.

I never said that my impression is objective, but yours certainly isn't either.

I sometimes are visiting the channels youtubers and streamers that I know from the time of A15 and A16. Almost all of them don't build bases anymore but just stand on roofs of POIs and shoot down.

That is hardly a good representation of regular players.  They'll often do stuff like this because watching someone build a base isn't the most enjoyable and entertaining thing to watch.  Being able to quickly set up a base and stick to action will get you more viewers.

 

[Jost Amman]

I never said that my impression is objective, but yours certainly isn't either.

Never said that, either. I guess we both gave our subjective impressions... that was my point.

I sometimes are visiting the channels youtubers and streamers that I know from the time of A15 and A16. Almost all of them don't build bases anymore but just stand on roofs of POIs and shoot down.

And that's certainly a wider base of data than yourself only, BUT it's still a very narrow data pool for having a reliable impression of what the real trend is.

On top of that, I'd say that base building is boring, and most Streamers and YouTubers will probably avoid doing that during their shows.

Edit: Riamus beat me to it, lol

 

[Riamus]

Demo-vultures! 

And feral ducks

And chickens with guns

They don't need a ranged attack or a commander. Just cross them with piranha and increase their metabolism. Ever seen chickens chase a beetle? Now imagine 10 to 50 of them chasing you with serrated beaks.  

There was a song from a group in the upper peninsula of Michigan back in about the 90s that wrote humorous songs that was called Chiquito Wars.  The group was Da Yoopers.  The song was about mosquitos that mated with chickens and created "chiquitos" that could eat through chain link fences and suck a dog dry and carry a person off.  These comments reminded me of that song.  It's a fun song if you want to look it up.  Seeing that added to the game would be quite interesting. 

 

[DocRussel]

I sometimes are visiting the channels youtubers and streamers that I know from the time of A15 and A16. Almost all of them don't build bases anymore but just stand on roofs of POIs and shoot down.

Does your definition of "build" not count completely retrofitting a POI into a base or horde base?  To me, that is still under the umbrella of building.  Literally none of the online videos I watch today that also played back then just stand on a roof and shoot down.  I don't mean that as an exaggeration but none of them refrain from building/modifying.

I build almost all of my home bases and horde bases from scratch, as I have from back them.

 

[RipClaw]

Does your definition of "build" not count completely retrofitting a POI into a base or horde base?  To me, that is still under the umbrella of building.  Literally none of the online videos I watch today that also played back then just stand on a roof and shoot down.  I don't mean that as an exaggeration but none of them refrain from building/modifying.

I build almost all of my home bases and horde bases from scratch, as I have from back them.

It depends on how extensive these modifications are. Knocking down a few blocks and maybe adding a roof against vultures doesn't really count as building for me. But this is what I see a lot of times.

Take a look at the videos from Guns Nerds and Steel or WaywarEko. What these players are doing is building.

 

[jorbascrumps]

It depends on how extensive these modifications are. Knocking down a few blocks and maybe adding a roof against vultures doesn't really count as building for me. But this is what I see a lot of times.

Take a look at the videos from Guns Nerds and Steel or WaywarEko. What these players are doing is building.

If you place a block you are by definition building, regardless of where it is in an existing structure or not. If people enjoy setting up a base in an existing building, let them. If you enjoy building from scratch, go ahead.

 

[RipClaw]

If you place a block you are by definition building, regardless of where it is in an existing structure or not. If people enjoy setting up a base in an existing building, let them. If you enjoy building from scratch, go ahead.

Where did I ever say that I would want to prohibit players from using POIs as bases?

I only said that building has become meaningless in the game because a lot of the existing POIs are more than sufficient both as a base and can be easily secured by removing a few blocks. If someone builds bases scratch then he does it because he likes to do it but there is no incentive in the game to do so.

 

[jorbascrumps]

Where did I ever say that I would want to prohibit players from using POIs as bases?

I only said that building has become meaningless in the game because a lot of the existing POIs are more than sufficient both as a base and can be easily secured by removing a few blocks. If someone builds bases scratch then he does it because he likes to do it but there is no incentive in the game to do so.

I never said you were suggesting such a thing.

I don't get why you care how others play. This is supposed to be a sandbox so why do players need incentives to do anything other than to have fun? Building has become meaningless to you but not for everyone else who still enjoys it.

 

[hiemfire]

there is no incentive in the game to do so.

he does it because he likes to do it

Is all the incentive that should be needed, otherwise it ends up being a mandatory/required playstyle.

 

[Pineapple Killer]

Where did I ever say that I would want to prohibit players from using POIs as bases?

I only said that building has become meaningless in the game because a lot of the existing POIs are more than sufficient both as a base and can be easily secured by removing a few blocks. If someone builds bases scratch then he does it because he likes to do it but there is no incentive in the game to do so.

XP is a large incentive to build. You can get a good few levels upgrading blocks

 

[Riamus]

Where did I ever say that I would want to prohibit players from using POIs as bases?

I only said that building has become meaningless in the game because a lot of the existing POIs are more than sufficient both as a base and can be easily secured by removing a few blocks. If someone builds bases scratch then he does it because he likes to do it but there is no incentive in the game to do so.

Why does the game need to incentivize building a base from scratch?  If people want to do it, they'll do it and don't need any incentive.  If they don't want to, then they don't need to.  An incentive just pushes people to do something they may not really want to do.  Besides, when it comes down to it, there is already incentive in the amount of experience you get if you use the upgrade method of building rather than building with steel from the start.  That and the enjoyment (for those who like building) of creating something themselves.  I think that's plenty of incentive and anything else would just be an attempt to force people to feel like they have to build because of the incentive.

Keep in mind that using a POI is a perfectly acceptable way to play the game.  There is no reason to try to get more people to build bases if that's not what they want to do.

 

[RipClaw]

Why does the game need to incentivize building a base from scratch?

It does not need it but it would be a way to make up for the time and effort builders put into their builds. A way to show a little love.

An incentive just pushes people to do something they may not really want to do.

Funny that you mention it because, as you wrote before, there are builders that don't really want to loot.

Besides, when it comes down to it, there is already incentive in the amount of experience you get if you use the upgrade method of building rather than building with steel from the start.

XP are nothing unique to building. You can get XP from many sources. For example selling items.

An incentive would be for example that you a get slightly more loot drops or a small boost on your loot stage.

 

[Riamus]

Funny that you mention it because, as you wrote before, there are builders that don't really want to loot.

And they don't have to.  Looting isn't required to build.  At least as long as someone provides materials to build with, but that's always going to be a requirement.

XP are nothing unique to building. You can get XP from many sources. For example selling items.

An incentive would be for example that you a get slightly more loot drops or a small boost on your loot stage.

XP from building can be very lucrative.  Not that it makes you higher level than others who quest but it keeps you relatively even.  If they also mine, which isn't uncommon, then the combined experience can be very good.

There's no reason for more loot for a builder who doesn't want to loot... but even if that wasn't the case, there's no reason to add such an incentive for building.  Let people do what they want.  No playstyle should get some special incentive.

 

[Wulf]

An incentive would be for example that you a get slightly more loot drops or a small boost on your loot stage.

Funnily enough, I believe that you get a lootstage bonus if you set up your base in a High Tier POI right now.

So technically you could argue you're incentivized to build your base in POI.

Correct me if i'm wrong.

 

[AlaricBalthi]

Nevertheless, I have the impression that fewer and fewer players build a base and more and more fall back on prefabs.

Talking only about our group: we generally find some nice POI and build our base there. But as time goes by, the less there is left of the original as we upgrade, remove, decorate and add features and defenses to it. Usually in the ends there is nothing left but the overall shape. The POI only gives a nice starting point. Not uncommon that we build a brand new home base while it's being built.

Another thing is we never, and i mean that literally, take the hordes in our "home base" and instead build a dedicated "horde base" for the horde nights. Losing the "horde base" means not losing all the resources, workbenches and equipment. That means building even more! Sometimes into POI and sometimes into brand new one, just to try new stuff. It's completely feasible to build both brand new bases and bases into a POI in a single game.

 

[BFT2020]

I've done 3 iterations of building:

1. Take over a POI and reinforce it for hordes
   
2. Take over a ruined POI and build up a base on it (lot more involved compared to the first option, but less than the third option)
   
3. Build a base from scratch
   

Not incentivized to do any of the 3, it is just what I want to do in that playthrough.  We don't need a carrot to push people to build a specific way, it is up to them and what they want to do.  This is, for all purposes, a sandbox game; and it is up to the player on how they want to play this game.  If all they care about is min/max play, then that is how they will play.  If you want to put yourself in different (and not always the easy way) situations, then that is up to the player.

I prefer making my horde base my main base.  Keeping my benches / supplies safe from the horde makes it dull and sloppy.  Having to design a base to both house you and defend yourself makes it more challenging and fun (and I don't mind making a mistake that costs me resources / workstations, gives me an opportunity to see if I can recover).

 

[RipClaw]

Funnily enough, I believe that you get a lootstage bonus if you set up your base in a High Tier POI right now.

So technically you could argue you're incentivized to build your base in POI.

That's what I thought afterwards. Then it would actually only be fair if a base that you build from scratch also gets a bonus.
 

 

[Riamus]

Funnily enough, I believe that you get a lootstage bonus if you set up your base in a High Tier POI right now.

So technically you could argue you're incentivized to build your base in POI.

Correct me if i'm wrong.

I'd be interested in seeing where this is stated.  I've never heard of this and it really doesn't make much sense.  Lootstage is affected by biomes but shouldn't be affected by having a base in a specific POI.  After all, you know how easy it would be to just change the POI tier of any POI to tier 5 just to get a bonus?  That would be pretty poor design, imo.

 

[RipClaw]

I'd be interested in seeing where this is stated.  I've never heard of this and it really doesn't make much sense.  Lootstage is affected by biomes but shouldn't be affected by having a base in a specific POI.  After all, you know how easy it would be to just change the POI tier of any POI to tier 5 just to get a bonus?  That would be pretty poor design, imo.

From the A20 Release Notes:

• Loot Progression Improvements include a new Loot Stage System, Biome and Tiered POI loot bonuses and early game balance
  

It is explained in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dB5-qcR5sEY&t=197s (from 3:17)

 

[BFT2020]

The only thing that affects would be the dropped bags from the zombies during horde night, and assuming that they drop inside the POI boundary.

Bases from scratch don't need a loot bonus to get people to build them.