PC Alpha 21 Dev Diary

[Abunai]

I don't understand why you guys are arguing about the variety of zombies. What this game really needs is an endgame or a final objective, call it a story. Something like reaching point X, getting rescued, teaming up with a faction, completing all their missions, or finding a cure. Anything, really. The game definitely needs more than just more zombies or decorations. We've heard that they added a lot of dialogue lines, but we don't know much else. Maybe like notes you find in games like "Raft"? Going from point X to Y and finding clues until you reach the end. That would be enough for me. I'm already ruling out some things, like reaching a faction and helping them improve (maybe in 7 Days to Die 2). But I'm hopeful that the bandits won't just be another enemy and will add more depth to the game. It really needs it.

 

[Crypted]

I don't understand why you guys are arguing about the variety of zombies. What this game really needs is an endgame or a final objective, call it a story. Something like reaching point X, getting rescued, teaming up with a faction, completing all their missions, or finding a cure. Anything, really. The game definitely needs more than just more zombies or decorations. We've heard that they added a lot of dialogue lines, but we don't know much else. Maybe like notes you find in games like "Raft"? Going from point X to Y and finding clues until you reach the end. That would be enough for me. I'm already ruling out some things, like reaching a faction and helping them improve (maybe in 7 Days to Die 2). But I'm hopeful that the bandits won't just be another enemy and will add more depth to the game. It really needs it.

I agree with you on the story and factions, I haven't heard much about these though to talk about It. 

 

[Riamus]

What you propose sounds cool (im not an art guy), but my guess is we are too far into the gold push for a redesign of that nature.  What is more likely to happen is a couple more zombie models being added after bandits / player character release if there is time or maybe post gold / DLC.

It will be interesting to see what folks think after the bandits go in.  They are not zombies but definitely will add a ton of more enemy variety to the game.

Considering they are redesigning player skins and from what I understand (I may be wrong), this is being done in conjunction with bandits so they can use the same code.  Why would you create this code and use it only on two of three obvious uses for it?  You would need to link the zombies to the new code and art would have to be made, but zombie skins would not require any truly new code if it just used what was being created for bandits.  Even if the code won't be the same for bandits and players, it doesn't preclude you from using it for bandits and zombies.

Pros for using skins:

* No new animations are needed

* You can create a lot of new zombie looks rather than only a few new zombies

* Art is easier as you are not having to create entirely new zombies

* Design is easier as you don't have to come up with new unique zombies

* Players don't have to memorize a bunch of new zombies to know what tactics to use as they are just skins

* Generally speaking, it takes fewer computer resources to display a variety of the same zombie with different skins than an equal number of different zombies

These are just some pros to using skins instead of making only a few new zombies.  I believe they could add this even at this stage of development, but the question is whether or not they will.

 

[Crypted]

Considering they are redesigning player skins and from what I understand (I may be wrong), this is being done in conjunction with bandits so they can use the same code.  Why would you create this code and use it only on two of three obvious uses for it?  You would need to link the zombies to the new code and art would have to be made, but zombie skins would not require any truly new code if it just used what was being created for bandits.  Even if the code won't be the same for bandits and players, it doesn't preclude you from using it for bandits and zombies.

Pros for using skins:

* No new animations are needed

* You can create a lot of new zombie looks rather than only a few new zombies

* Art is easier as you are not having to create entirely new zombies

* Design is easier as you don't have to come up with new unique zombies

* Players don't have to memorize a bunch of new zombies to know what tactics to use as they are just skins

* Generally speaking, it takes fewer computer resources to display a variety of the same zombie with different skins than an equal number of different zombies

These are just some pros to using skins instead of making only a few new zombies.  I believe they could add this even at this stage of development, but the question is whether or not they will.

The Fun Pimps said in the interview with Guns, Nerds and Steel that they were thinking about adding more zombies then Joel said that he designed most of the new ones, but they didn't pull the trigger on them. Rick said maybe a couple before gold. So (If I heard this correctly) then shouldn't some of the zombies be already done or almost done. 

 

[meganoth]

Now, now, I think 'practically lying to myself' is a stretch. - There are plenty of changes that I'm perfectly happy to play out before I come to an opinion on, but I'm confident then when a screamer goes off, and I get 4 lookalikes amongst the crowd, it just doesn't feel good.

Yes, but 3 more zombies will not change that perceptibly. You would get 3 lookalikes instead. That is the point I am making: If they don't add dozens of new zombies players will still complain about not enough variation.

It's a great game, I'm not going to stop playing any time soon, but if you're staring down a conga line of Arlenes and say to yourself 'This is great, wouldn't change a thing', I think it's equally plausible that you're.. practically lying to yourself.  

I am constantly lying to myself. Very healthy, keeps one sane.

But that's just the hill on which I will dig in my heels and prepare to die on.

I think bandits will be fantastic for breaking up the pace/style of combat. I really hope they make us switch up our behavior to fight them effectively.

..But I do not trust them to make it feel better when I got zombie clone wars going on at my base.

 

[Riamus]

I don't understand why you guys are arguing about the variety of zombies. What this game really needs is an endgame or a final objective, call it a story. Something like reaching point X, getting rescued, teaming up with a faction, completing all their missions, or finding a cure. Anything, really. The game definitely needs more than just more zombies or decorations. We've heard that they added a lot of dialogue lines, but we don't know much else. Maybe like notes you find in games like "Raft"? Going from point X to Y and finding clues until you reach the end. That would be enough for me. I'm already ruling out some things, like reaching a faction and helping them improve (maybe in 7 Days to Die 2). But I'm hopeful that the bandits won't just be another enemy and will add more depth to the game. It really needs it.

They have started they are adding story to the game that would give what you are asking for.  Whether or not it is any good is something we will have to see.  It still doesn't give you an end game, but does give you an overall objective.  Most players are likely to ignore it and just play at they have always been playing, though. 

I'm someone who likes a good story on a game, but for me personally, a story isn't really needed here.  No matter how good it is, it will likely feel generic after one or two games.  There also hasn't been any indication if the story will work in RWG or only in pregen maps.

 

[Crypted]

They have started they are adding story to the game that would give what you are asking for.  Whether or not it is any good is something we will have to see.  It still doesn't give you an end game, but does give you an overall objective.  Most players are likely to ignore it and just play at they have always been playing, though. 

I'm someone who likes a good story on a game, but for me personally, a story isn't really needed here.  No matter how good it is, it will likely feel generic after one or two games.  There also hasn't been any indication if the story will work in RWG or only in pregen maps.

When It comes to a story I'll have to wait for more information to put my thoughts on It. The factions sound like a really good addition to the game, we will have to wait and see though, hopefully soon. 

 

[KOLAND]

hello everyone guys. Yesterday I watched a recording of the developers' stream, they showed a lot of new different buildings, but I did not see the water objects that they showed on the art. There were yachts and, if I'm not mistaken, oil rigs. Can you please tell me if they are planned to be added with new water at all? And will a raft or boats float there for convenience? And will there be dangers in the form of sharks or zombie sharks? Or even new types of drowned zombies, for example? Thanks in advance if anyone answers me. I immediately apologize if there are errors in my text.

 

[Mister Forgash]

Yes, but 3 more zombies will not change that perceptibly. You would get 3 lookalikes instead. That is the point I am making: If they don't add dozens of new zombies players will still complain about not enough variation.

While I'm more in the camp of giving preexisting zombies an alternate outfit(/coloration scheme/whatever) or two as compared to padding the roaster with a couple new zombie types entirely, I understand what you're getting at. Either way, there's going to be a lot of repetition with enemies. Sadly, as someone without a lot of technical knowledge, and being the felloq on the outside looking in, it just '-obviously- should be so simple!' to give us all the zombies we could ever want.. And then you realize we're stuck within the confines of the framework that has been designed. I do not envy the Pimps with the choices they must make as the game draws nearer to gold- Us fans are ravenous, and each and everyone one of us knows exactly what the game needs, even when we're wrong. 
.. After Steve gets a blue shirt variant, maybe we can give Matt 1 skeleton gore pile.

 

[Crypted]

hello everyone guys. Yesterday I watched a recording of the developers' stream, they showed a lot of new different buildings, but I did not see the water objects that they showed on the art. There were yachts and, if I'm not mistaken, oil rigs. Can you please tell me if they are planned to be added with new water at all? And will a raft or boats float there for convenience? And will there be dangers in the form of sharks or zombie sharks? Or even new types of drowned zombies, for example? Thanks in advance if anyone answers me. I immediately apologize if there are errors in my text.

I don't remember seeing any yachts or oil rigs and I think they said no about adding a boat. As far as I know there aren't going to be any dangers In the water. 

 

[Riamus]

hello everyone guys. Yesterday I watched a recording of the developers' stream, they showed a lot of new different buildings, but I did not see the water objects that they showed on the art. There were yachts and, if I'm not mistaken, oil rigs. Can you please tell me if they are planned to be added with new water at all? And will a raft or boats float there for convenience? And will there be dangers in the form of sharks or zombie sharks? Or even new types of drowned zombies, for example? Thanks in advance if anyone answers me. I immediately apologize if there are errors in my text.

There may eventually be a raft of some sort, but they aren't likely to add sharks or other underwater creatures.  Water POI might get added considering they have done some work on a yacht, but if they don't end up making an easy way to access such POI, then they will probably decide not to add them.

The Fun Pimps said in the interview with Guns, Nerds and Steel that they were thinking about adding more zombies then Joel said that he designed most of the new ones, but they didn't pull the trigger on them. Rick said maybe a couple before gold. So (If I heard this correctly) then shouldn't some of the zombies be already done or almost done. 

Yes, they said they are looking at adding a couple more zombies, but my point was that more unique zombies will have significantly less impact in adding variety than using skins.  With skins, you could easily have 50+ different looks to the zombies while still having the lower number of unique zombies.  And 50 is all extremely low estimate.  Add in a few hairstyles, half a dozen colors of clothing, and a few skin tones for each zombie and you can reach over 100 combinations easily with relatively little effort considering they are already coding a system for bandits that could be implemented for zombies unless I miss my guess.  And, honestly, if they didn't plan it to handle both, they really should have as the difference needed to do so would be minimal if planned ahead.

 

[Old Crow]

So, aside from having to carry a physical item in your inventory, what exactly are you expecting here? Because if that's it, cool, I guess?

Delivery from one trader to another, I guess. Could be a contract, or supplies, etc.

They were working on random generated zombie but they give up

Left 4 Dead did it, they can't?

 

[Riamus]

One thing I noticed with the dev stream was their difficulty with questions because of the rate people were talking.  It made the question and answer part almost pointless.  I know they aren't doing Q&A in the next streams, but I would like to offer a suggestion for any future Q&A they may have...

Having watched other Twitch streams that had Q&A with a lot of talking by the viewers, others have had one or more moderators who would grab questions from chat during the main stream and place them in something like a shared Google Doc so they can easily be seen when it is time to answer questions.  If the moderators are familiar with what the devs will or will not answer, they can skip questions that won't be answered to make it even more condensed for the devs.  Just a suggestion as something that works very well for others and would likely greatly improve things for the devs here as well.

 

[jorbascrumps]

Left 4 Dead did it, they can't?

What an awful argument.

 

[Matt115]

Left 4 Dead did it, they can't?

It was early idea - it was scrapped early. zombies doesn't looked too good

 

[Old Crow]

What an awful argument.

How is it an awful argument?

 

[beerfly]

How is it an awful argument

Not awful, just two different games as architecture and how much it could take for the sake of our HW.

Would be cool though, I am also in for more variety of zeds, but we can't have anything. Fingers crossed, though.

 

[Old Crow]

Not awful, just two different games as architecture and how much it could take for the sake of our HW.

Would be cool though, I am also in for more variety of zeds, but we can't have anything. Fingers crossed, though.

I'd at least like to see the cut zombies return with new models. I'm not really sure why they were cut to begin with.

 

[Roland]

They were cut because they weren’t up to the standards of the new models and would have looked horribly out of place next to them. 
 

the team has been completely focused on bandit models and character models since that time so there has been no time to do more zombie models. Once they are finished with bandits and player characters, if there is time, they will do a few more zombie models. But they’ve put off the other entities in the game long enough and these others they’ve been working on are must haves before the game can be considered done whereas more zombie models would be nice but not necessary. 

 

[Old Crow]

They were cut because they weren’t up to the standards of the new models and would have looked horribly out of place next to them. 
 

the team has been completely focused on bandit models and character models since that time so there has been no time to do more zombie models. Once they are finished with bandits and player characters, if there is time, they will do a few more zombie models. But they’ve put off the other entities in the game long enough and these others they’ve been working on are must haves before the game can be considered done whereas more zombie models would be nice but not necessary. 

Wait, so the cut ones were already HD versions? Or no? Just making sure I understand.