PC Alpha 21 Dev Diary

[Matt115]

Thankfully the game is designed by the developers to be moddable so a greater audience of players can enjoy it for many more hours after the vanilla experience is over.

This is like saying : hey another TES VI will be buggy but thankfully game is designed by the developears to be modable so community will fix bugs. Mods cannot be excuse for lack of content

 

[BFT2020]

This is like saying : hey another TES VI will be buggy but thankfully game is designed by the developears to be modable so community will fix bugs. Mods cannot be excuse for lack of content

No that is not the same.  A buggy game having to be fixed by modders is not the same as a game that is not designed around the way you want it to be.

Mods are created to increase the content of games for various likes and desires, it is not an excuse because said game lacks content that you want.

Some people want a greater variety of firearms in the game (some even went weapons that are more antique than modern).  The developers are fine with the amount of guns they have in the game they are creating.   If the developers were to create a game that satisfies everyone's desires, then there won't be a game. Period.  The sheer amount of content being asked for this game would just simply bog it down and then they would have to start making significant design changes to accommodate all of that extra content.  Fully destructible world - gone so we can add more content.  Structural integrity -gone to add more content.

There is plenty of content in this game as a vanilla experience.  Just because it isn't the content you want does not mean that this game lacks content.  Laz Man was pointing out that with the game being easily moddable, you can either create your own mod or find a mod created by others to satisfy your content desires.

 

[Laz Man]

This is like saying : hey another TES VI will be buggy but thankfully game is designed by the developears to be modable so community will fix bugs. Mods cannot be excuse for lack of content

Bugs and content are 2 completely different things.  Not a good analogy imo.

The user who commented wasn't disappointed about general lack of content but rather the simplification of systems over the course of several Alphas.

I can empathize with people who prefer a deeper simulation and wanted to point out that mods can alleviate some of that desire. (e.g. more complex recipes, resource gathering, weapon variety, skill progression, etc.)

Hopefully modding becomes even more accessible the closer we get to gold so it doesn't feel like a undesirable alternative.

 

[Prydonian]

This is like saying : hey another TES VI will be buggy but thankfully game is designed by the developears to be modable so community will fix bugs. Mods cannot be excuse for lack of content

They wouldn’t have to be “excused,” it’s their game.  

 

[Aldranon]

IDK, I kinda make my own "content".

-Will I be Super Soldier and tear through the wasteland like a CAT 5 hurricane or die trying?

-Will I be very careful not to get a cut or scratched because of deadly infections?

-Do I make a "Fortress of Doom" or go from poi to poi like a vagabond?

There are other more subtle preconceived ideas that sometime pop into my head while the game is loading.  

Getting these at least semi-fixed in my brain, paint the game for a good RPG event! 

 

[Matt115]

They wouldn’t have to be “excused,” it’s their game.  

No that is not the same.  A buggy game having to be fixed by modders is not the same as a game that is not designed around the way you want it to be.

Mods are created to increase the content of games for various likes and desires, it is not an excuse because said game lacks content that you want.

Some people want a greater variety of firearms in the game (some even went weapons that are more antique than modern).  The developers are fine with the amount of guns they have in the game they are creating.   If the developers were to create a game that satisfies everyone's desires, then there won't be a game. Period.  The sheer amount of content being asked for this game would just simply bog it down and then they would have to start making significant design changes to accommodate all of that extra content.  Fully destructible world - gone so we can add more content.  Structural integrity -gone to add more content.

There is plenty of content in this game as a vanilla experience.  Just because it isn't the content you want does not mean that this game lacks content.  Laz Man was pointing out that with the game being easily moddable, you can either create your own mod or find a mod created by others to satisfy your content desires.

I agree about firearms because it's part of balance too. Well Valheim have few tiers and that's good enough because it's good balance and  you don;'t have to dunno find "sword of fallen star " by 21 hours like in terraria.

But lack of variants of zombie is  hurt a lot - i doesn't mean types but variants - 

this is variants you can just make more models and use this same animations. You have 11 variants of  normal zombie in 7dtd. 11 VARIANTS.  There is no excuse for so low number of them.

Simplifications - simplicated crafting, food, building , removed wellness , removed corpses , and if good undestands clothing in future too ( i know there reason was technical stuff with preformance but it's simplification too). Only will be water more expended and that's it.

Bugs and content are 2 completely different things.  Not a good analogy imo.

The user who commented wasn't disappointed about general lack of content but rather the simplification of systems over the course of several Alphas.

I can empathize with people who prefer a deeper simulation and wanted to point out that mods can alleviate some of that desire. (e.g. more complex recipes, resource gathering, weapon variety, skill progression, etc.)

Hopefully modding becomes even more accessible the closer we get to gold so it doesn't feel like a undesirable alternative.

Laz man - lack of content is part of simplification --> more building upgrades mean more content.  Food smell - more content.  simpler gun making --> less content

Okay mods will expend recipes, weapon variety etc. because devs want to keep this simple  okay no problem . - but you still have 11 variants of normal zombie.  Can mods add more variants? Yes ( i don't argue about quality of this mods because i'm too much tired about this). But it's still problem of basic game - and this is can be solve by devs - just add 25 models and reused animations and it will be good enough to avoid clone wars syndrome. So this can be to be done and mods are not neccesary to solve this problem. and i think nobody would complain about more zombie models

 

[Laz Man]

I agree about firearms because it's part of balance too. Well Valheim have few tiers and that's good enough because it's good balance and  you don;'t have to dunno find "sword of fallen star " by 21 hours like in terraria.

But lack of variants of zombie is  hurt a lot - i doesn't mean types but variants - 



this is variants you can just make more models and use this same animations. You have 11 variants of  normal zombie in 7dtd. 11 VARIANTS.  There is no excuse for so low number of them.

Simplifications - simplicated crafting, food, building , removed wellness , removed corpses , and if good undestands clothing in future too ( i know there reason was technical stuff with preformance but it's simplification too). Only will be water more expended and that's it.

Laz man - lack of content is part of simplification --> more building upgrades mean more content.  Food smell - more content.  simpler gun making --> less content

Okay mods will expend recipes, weapon variety etc. because devs want to keep this simple  okay no problem . - but you still have 11 variants of normal zombie.  Can mods add more variants? Yes ( i don't argue about quality of this mods because i'm too much tired about this). But it's still problem of basic game - and this is can be solve by devs - just add 25 models and reused animations and it will be good enough to avoid clone wars syndrome. So this can be to be done and mods are not neccesary to solve this problem. and i think nobody would complain about more zombie models

Simplification doesn't always equate to a bad thing.  Keeping things simple often makes things more intuitive.  Not all will agree, but games can be simple but still provide a very rewarding and deep experience.  More variety will hopefully come when all of the core game features are in (e.g. bandits, story quest line, etc.).  Ironically, the one area you seem to be okay with simplification is in zombie character models (variants - same zombie wearing different clothes)....

 

[IzPrebuilt]

Simplification doesn't always equate to a bad thing.  Keeping things simple often makes things more intuitive.  Not all will agree, but games can be simple but still provide a very rewarding and deep experience.  More variety will hopefully come when all of the core game features are in (e.g. bandits, story quest line, etc.).  Ironically, the one area you seem to be okay with simplification is in zombie character models (variants - same zombie wearing different clothes)....

You do know you can just say "We want to sell our game to more people and the more broad the audience the more simple and easy the game has to be" right?

I mean you're not allowed to say the quiet part out loud, that being "and hardcore-survival players can go F themselves we already have your money and we need to get money from new people lmao"

but i'm allowed to say it. Even if TFP employees will probably pretend to disagree with it to maintain the illusion of being anything other than a company with the goal of making money.

 

[Fanatical_Meat]

You do know you can just say "We want to sell our game to more people and the more broad the audience the more simple and easy the game has to be" right?

I mean you're not allowed to say the quiet part out loud, that being "and hardcore-survival players can go F themselves we already have your money and we need to get money from new people lmao"

but i'm allowed to say it. Even if TFP employees will probably pretend to disagree with it to maintain the illusion of being anything other than a company with the goal of making money.

Well yeah, they’re a business with salaries, benefits and families to pay and provide for. This isn’t a dirty thing.

Focus on the fun, yes the game has become more “simple” and in my opinion it is still a ton of fun.

 

[Laz Man]

You do know you can just say "We want to sell our game to more people and the more broad the audience the more simple and easy the game has to be" right?

I mean you're not allowed to say the quiet part out loud, that being "and hardcore-survival players can go F themselves we already have your money and we need to get money from new people lmao"

but i'm allowed to say it. Even if TFP employees will probably pretend to disagree with it to maintain the illusion of being anything other than a company with the goal of making money.

I don't think anyone is disagreeing with wanting to reach more players.  Don't all game developers want more people to play their games?  As far as your statement about hardcore players, now that's really harsh and would disagree with you 100%.  Certainly making money is important, otherwise the owners can't hire the staff to finish the game and also make more games.  If it was only about the money, the game would of been shoved out the door as 1.0 along time ago in my opinion, just like many other cash grab early access games out there.

Hopefully A21, will further prove that to the fanbase.  Hang in there...I know the wait sucks....

 

[Roland]

I mean you're not allowed to say the quiet part out loud, that being "and hardcore-survival players can go F themselves we already have your money and we need to get money from new people lmao"

Hardcore-Survival Players tend to assume EVERYTHING is trying to F them so no real surprise there...

 

[Matt115]

Simplification doesn't always equate to a bad thing.  Keeping things simple often makes things more intuitive.  Not all will agree, but games can be simple but still provide a very rewarding and deep experience.  More variety will hopefully come when all of the core game features are in (e.g. bandits, story quest line, etc.).  Ironically, the one area you seem to be okay with simplification is in zombie character models (variants - same zombie wearing different clothes)....

Simple games can be complicated too - Valheim is simple at first - find wood, made workbench make cube upgrade and kill boss then look for higher tier items and reapet. But then you have resistances, some plains can't grow everywhere, many types of baits, diffrent animals eats diffrent type of food, enemies have diffrent resistance and deal diffrent type of damage, in some areas water will slow your done or cold will  slowly kill you and drain stamina . Simple base but many complicated submechanics.

And returning to zombies - because i except as low as possible at this moment.  And to be honest - normal enemies are the most common so need as much variants as possible - well most zombies would be just civilians after all right so need most variants.  You can make many soldiers zombie types - begining of normal one ending on special ops or  sapper outfit. But do i expect that? no. And to be honest - i don't even know what Devs want - first the only mutant was wight - now wight is normal zombie while screamer and spider looking like B.O.W. 

So -  Behemot? nah

zombie teens? nah

grapping zombie? nah i just don't remember reason.

So option what can be add without changing into "night of the dead" ( it's terrible about setting and character design Night of the Dead na Steam (steampowered.com) ) are very very limited

So that's why i say about "zombie in diffrent clothes" because nothing more can be done xd

 

[Prydonian]

Eesh, the sense of entitlement is like a fog in here.  

 

[Morloc]

Eesh, the sense of entitlement is like a fog in here.  

Nine years will do that to you.

Enough time to have a kid who is old enough to play 7D2D.



-Arch Necromancer Morloc 

 

[Doomofman]

Simplification doesn't always equate to a bad thing.  Keeping things simple often makes things more intuitive.  Not all will agree, but games can be simple but still provide a very rewarding and deep experience.  More variety will hopefully come when all of the core game features are in (e.g. bandits, story quest line, etc.).  Ironically, the one area you seem to be okay with simplification is in zombie character models (variants - same zombie wearing different clothes)....

I think it's more of a "if these are the only zombie models we're getting, at least change the colour of the clothes so we're not facing 5 totally identical zombies at the one time" thing... A compromise on the assumption there won't be any more unique zombies added

I'd take that over nothing

 

[Laz Man]

I think it's more of a "if these are the only zombie models we're getting, at least change the colour of the clothes so we're not facing 5 totally identical zombies at the one time" thing... A compromise on the assumption there won't be any more unique zombies added

I'd take that over nothing

I know I have heard talk of such things but no plans that I am aware of.

As a side note, apparently quality variants are already in the works by modders such as Mumpfy.  See his thread below for more information.

 

[Jost Amman]

Simple games can be complicated too

Ok, you lost me there...  :confused2:

 

[Laz Man]

Ok, you lost me there...  :confused2:

Ever heard of Simplicated before?

 

[Matt115]

Ok, you lost me there...  :confused2:

Game start simple - get eq to kill boss to be able to get better eq - simple right? but every another tier change a lot because - new biome have new rules, boss have resistances, you need specific and rare item to summon boss etc

I know I have heard talk of such things but no plans that I am aware of.

As a side note, apparently quality variants are already in the works by modders such as Mumpfy.  See his thread below for more information.

you see what i mean - there is no serious zombie pack mods for 7dtd. and to be honest - satanistic screamer? xd okay : i will show you something 

compire vanilia 7dtd zombie and from this mod

 then l4d2 common  infected and this :Warsztat Steam::Extended Common Infected (steamcommunity.com)

 

[Riamus]

you see what i mean - there is no serious zombie pack mods for 7dtd. 

This may be more a matter of not many people carrying much about the number of zombies.  This isn't some deep shooter game or RPG, where having hundreds of different enemies is needed.  Sure, I'd be happy to see alternate clothing on the existing zombies, but the game really doesn't need more zombies.