Callum123456789
Active member
Yeah I was thinking the same thing like people weren't the biggest fans of looking for books like minibikes for dumb@%$#s but the game was still awesome same thing will apply here.
PC Alpha 21 Dev Diary
- Thread starter Roland
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blueboyxg
New member
Okay so hear me out guys.. I had idea for upcoming change in crafting by Learn by Reading system. I had thoughts about it and some sort of idea of how it would be good (maybe?). So basically there is action skills system in Undead Legacy mod where there are action skills which are leveled up by DOING stuff, So I had idea to made it come back from alpha 15/16 where there were action skills to make for example tools. But there was exploit where when you was crafting all the time stone axes you would lvl up that action skill in those alphas. So basically in Undead Legacy there are actions skill which will give you some % bonus for doing that right stuff. So for example there is action skill called mining tools, so if you are mining stone all day you would lvl up that skill only. And there is % bonuses all the way up to lvl 100. So 0 lvl is nothing after lvl 20 you will get 25% block dmg and harvest % more of the stone. So I had idea which would be pretty good for Learn by Looting as well ! To overhaul action skills from Undead Legacy to point for example for pickaxes - Mining Tools 0 lvl you would craft grey mining tools 25 orange 50 green and 75 blue and 100 lvl would be just like in 20 alpha just bonus to harvest materials and block damage. But there would be catch. You know how to craft blue tier stone axe but there would be % chance somehow fail crafting and you would craft one tier lower item. So for example I know how to craft iron pickaxe by the time like 8 day and finally I found steel tools schematic, but Oh wait I know how to craft finally steel pickaxe but I dont know how to craft it the proper way so there is 5% chance (more or less) depends if it will be like this, that I would somehow not correct glue it together (for example 
) so I would make 1 tier lower item so from Blue Tier Steel pickaxe I would do green. - it would still cost materials to make Blue tier pickaxe- and then there are those magazines. There would be for example 10 magazines for (How to craft proper Steel pickaxe for dummies) and they would lower the chance from failing to craft proper Blue Steel pickaxe. Those magazines would be like I have 5% to fail crafting so I would need 10 magazines to properly craft Blue tier pickaxe. So what that that mean ? I would NEED to LOOT the magazines to be able to craft proper tier of the pickaxe. Thanks for reading this akward thoughts of my ! - Sorry for spelling my english is bad I know .. 
) so I would make 1 tier lower item so from Blue Tier Steel pickaxe I would do green. - it would still cost materials to make Blue tier pickaxe- and then there are those magazines. There would be for example 10 magazines for (How to craft proper Steel pickaxe for dummies) and they would lower the chance from failing to craft proper Blue Steel pickaxe. Those magazines would be like I have 5% to fail crafting so I would need 10 magazines to properly craft Blue tier pickaxe. So what that that mean ? I would NEED to LOOT the magazines to be able to craft proper tier of the pickaxe. Thanks for reading this akward thoughts of my ! - Sorry for spelling my english is bad I know .. 
Optimization is happening all the time. Faatal, the head programmer is often talking about it here in the dev dairy. For example:
https://community.7daystodie.com/topic/28129-alpha-21-dev-diary/?do=findComment&comment=504639
https://community.7daystodie.com/topic/28129-alpha-21-dev-diary/?do=findComment&comment=504640
Okay so hear me out guys.. I had idea for upcoming change in crafting by Learn by Reading system. I had thoughts about it and some sort of idea of how it would be good (maybe?). So basically there is action skills system in Undead Legacy mod where there are action skills which are leveled up by DOING stuff, So I had idea to made it come back from alpha 15/16 where there were action skills to make for example tools. But there was exploit where when you was crafting all the time stone axes you would lvl up that action skill in those alphas. So basically in Undead Legacy there are actions skill which will give you some % bonus for doing that right stuff. So for example there is action skill called mining tools, so if you are mining stone all day you would lvl up that skill only. And there is % bonuses all the way up to lvl 100. So 0 lvl is nothing after lvl 20 you will get 25% block dmg and harvest % more of the stone. So I had idea which would be pretty good for Learn by Looting as well ! To overhaul action skills from Undead Legacy to point for example for pickaxes - Mining Tools 0 lvl you would craft grey mining tools 25 orange 50 green and 75 blue and 100 lvl would be just like in 20 alpha just bonus to harvest materials and block damage. But there would be catch. You know how to craft blue tier stone axe but there would be % chance somehow fail crafting and you would craft one tier lower item. So for example I know how to craft iron pickaxe by the time like 8 day and finally I found steel tools schematic, but Oh wait I know how to craft finally steel pickaxe but I dont know how to craft it the proper way so there is 5% chance (more or less) depends if it will be like this, that I would somehow not correct glue it together (for example
However good your idea might be, it won't happen in 7D2D. First of all the developers said action skills/learn-by-doing is not coming back for 7d2d. Secondly they are relatively speaking near the end of development, they will only do the necessary stuff to get to a release and they consider the current perk system ready for release (except for the crafting subsystem that is)
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Fanatical_Meat
Well-known member
It’s been mentioned and there are some for A21, optimizations are planned to mostly happen when Alphas end.
blueboyxg
New member
Oh sad to hear then
but first of all it´s their game so it´s their right to do what they want to do 
meilodasreh
New member
I started a new game and took a quick "debug mode flyby" over the region a thought it was, but couldn't find it again.
Maybe DF interferes with the map, or it even isn't a thing any more (cant even remember what alpha it was when I was there. I would assume 17 or 19?)
When I found it I thought it would be supposed to somehow be connected to the not-yet-existent storyline (had actually working motion sensors outside), was mainly underground, and at the top some "out-of-place-but-beautiful" landscape with said cascading water.
Maybe somebody else can help me correct my obviously broken memory?
Matt115
New member
meilodasreh
New member
What a pessimistic guy.
He doesn't even seem to want to give it a try at least, but has already totally made up his mind what he thinks it will be is cast in stone, just by few pieces of info he derived when reading a few pages of this thread.
Roland
Moderator
That isn’t a complete list. Once the devs start their dev stream to show A21, there will be some lengthening of that list. Personally, I can’t imagine myself going back to A20. Everything about A21 feels more refined.
Laz Man
Fun Pimps Staff
Wrong or right, there are alot of players with so many hours in the game, refinement changes are just always going to sound less enticing versus additional content.
Given how long the game has been in development, it is one reason modding is held in such high regard by many.
Hopefully, their is enough new content in A21 to keep most people entertained until bandits and the main story is injected.
From the level design side, we have a few surprises we hope will please alot of people.
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Roland
Moderator
I don’t know if this helps or not but in my experience the new system doesn’t feel like a grind at all. A grind requires that you have control over the outcome of an action and through repetition of that action you can determine the outcome you want. So you can grind on a safe with a stone axe because you know by repeating that action you will eventually get into the safe. You can grind skill points by finding the best action that grants xp and then repeating it to rack up the points. You can grind the trader by finding something to sell and repeating the action of getting that item to sell and make money and of course you can grind the quests. It’s all guaranteed.
You quickly will realize that there is no way to choose a specific magazine title and grind for that. It’s random and because of that there is no incentive to focus on one magazine to grind it out efficiently to get to the top. Even with your perk bonus you still tend to find a wide range of magazines. You can mitigate that a bit by being selective in which POIs you enter and which loot containers you open but it is still random. You don’t know and can’t control which magazine will be in any crate and you intuitively come to realize the futility of this as you play. (MP will be different as teams can funnel specific titles to their specialists).
Now, if you are the type of person who only likes to play with the best gear and can’t stand the inefficiency of lower tier stuff and have always maximized the grinds to get to top gear as quickly as possible, then you probably won’t like the crafting change.
BUT chances are that you never crafted your own gear anyway in A20 and so you probably won’t in A21 either. You’ll just grind your Lootstage up quickly and visit biomes with a Lootstage bonus to find the high tier gear as quickly as you can. You’ll grind your quest tiers up as fast as you can to get the top gear rewards as quickly as you can from the trader. Just because you can only craft a yellow pipe shotgun doesn’t mean you can’t still use to full effect a purple auto shotgun you got from a T5 quest reward and that gameplay loop probably feels pretty much the same as A20 and below as far as results go—always getting in loot or trader rewards stuff that is better than you can craft.
So in summary, recipe learning is random again like it used to be and can’t really effectively be grinded. You simply make do with what you have which will be a really nostalgic feeling for a lot of old timers. However, if you want the best stuff there is a min/max grind fest option still available to you that hasn’t really changed. Use the trader and quests and grind up your Lootstage and you’ll get your top gear goodies more quickly than those who like a more slow progression and who like to mostly craft their own stuff.
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Roland
Moderator
Another important difference is that back then you had to live without an Auger at all until you could find the schematic but long before you get to 100 magazines you will be able to play with augers you crafted yourself that get progressively better until you eventually gain the recipe for a Q5 Auger. Its not the same "all or nothing" feature as before. Now, if a person refuses to craft a Q1-4 auger because they can't stand playing with sub-optimal gear then the result will be pretty close to how it was by their own choice.
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RipClaw
Well-known member
As I understand it, grind is simply the mechanical repetition of activities. Whether that is killing zombies, looting POI or mining resources. Whether it feels like a grind always depends on whether you like the activity or not. So if you like looting then it doesn't feel like a grind. But if you don't like looting then it is a grind.
mstdv inc
New member
Hi @faatal Is it possible in theory to add a script with a timer to the game that will be synchronized with the time on a PC or a microsoft time synchronization server so that seasonal thematic content automatically appears in the loot and sale game at a certain time?
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RipClaw
Well-known member
The question is whether we will even have the necessary parts and steel to craft a new Auger at each quality level. It doesn't help me to be able to make a Q2 auger when I have already spent all the parts for a Q1 auger.
Roland
Moderator
Sure, its going to be different for each person. My point was that intentionally looting repetitively with the intention of quickly moving up the shotgun magazine ladder (for example) is going to quickly reveal itself as an exercise in futility for most min/maxers and as is their nature they will turn to more effective and speedy methods of acquiring the best shotgun they can get. So I'm not saying that the act of looting itself can't be grindy. I'm saying that going for a specific magazine can't effectively be accomplished through grinding. Most who care about efficiency and effective activities will just naturally abandon that tactic as their means of gaining the specific things they want.
Roland
Moderator
Exactly the kind of tough decisions that make a game good. Scarcity of resources means making a choice to make a Q1 or wait for Q2 or Q3 before doing it. Regardless, you'll have an auger of some kind until you can somehow acquire or craft that Q5. As I said, some people will hate that they are using a Q2 auger for longer than 5 minutes. But it is still an important distinction that you will have an auger of some quality whereas before when there was just one rare schematic drop to find you went completely without.
Gamida
Hood Ornament
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RipClaw
Well-known member
The decision will also depend on whether the stats between tiers still overlap as much as they did in A20. For example, in my current game I have a Q5 hunting rifle that has better stats than a Q4 lever action rifle.
Roland
Moderator
I believe that has been fixed in A21. At least I haven’t run into any huge overlaps like the one you mentioned. Even so, that STILL doesn’t negate the fact that you won’t have an auger to use while waiting to find enough magazines to make a Q5. That was the original point—having to go without for most of the game if you couldn’t find the schematic
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