PC Alpha 21 Dev Diary

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Annihilatorza said:
Hi @faatal

What are you working on currently?

You mentioned that water won't flow into other blocks like Minecraft does, is that for performance reasons or just a limitation of the engine?

Would flowing water be a goal for the future?
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Lots of things, mostly bugs. Currently POI imposter flickering between road paint vs the block below it, which probably started from the console guys reducing many vertex positions from 32 to 16 bits to save memory. The blocks below don't even need to be there, so fixing it is also an optimization. Console has tight memory constraints, so they are working hard to bring that down, which will also bring PC mem use down too.

Matt115 said:
Chances about bandits in A21 are... pretty low😔
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Basically 0% chance at this point. I'm putting my efforts towards must-fixes, before we even start the MF list. Also various features that are not quite done, and code changes to support balancing changes as people who are play testing discover issues.

 
Syphon583 said:
  • One of those QoL changes (again, sounded like it is coming for A21, but I could be wrong) is an update to the UI. Rick mentioned a graphic designer wsa working on that (as a side note, I hope by graphic designer, he meant UX designer. Two very different things. Whoever it is, hopefully they have experience in UX) Regardless, I think most players would agree this is an area that needs some love.
  • Lastly, their comments regarding performance improvements make complete sense from a development standpoint. While we as players sometimes gripe about the poor performance in some cases, focusing on performance enhancements just does not make sense when systems and assets are still being finalized. That would likely result in wasted dev time and resources.
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A21 does not have any big UI changes. There are a few smaller changes here and there.

The game has many optimizations already in it or it would be running at something like 5 FPS. A complex game with no optimizations would be unplayable. The goal is to continue adding optimizations to what has already been done.

 
faatal said:
Basically 0% chance at this point. I'm putting my efforts towards must-fixes, before we even start the MF list. Also various features that are not quite done, and code changes to support balancing changes as people who are play testing discover issues.
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That's a pity. I know lots of people are looking forward to NPCs being in the game.

Out of curiosity, is the in-progress bandit code going to be shipped with the alpha, just disabled/unused? Or is all the work in a feature branch that won't even get merged into the A21 branch?

I'm asking on behalf of modders who may or may not be myself. :)  

 
faatal said:
Basically 0% chance at this point. I'm putting my efforts towards must-fixes, before we even start the MF list. Also various features that are not quite done, and code changes to support balancing changes as people who are play testing discover issues.
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While I understand that shipping incomplete/buggy bandits is a no-go for "professional" reasons, I also think that you're all missing an opportunity for early feedback on what actually is ready. So, unless you're in a completely draft phase of development for the bandit AI, I would advise Rick, Joel and everyone in the team, to reconsider adding at least some basic wilderness spawning for bandits.

This way you would have early feedback on how players like/dislike the NPCs (from a graphical/looks perspective), if players like the animations and how throwing in bandits along with zombies feels for most players.

Thanks  :yo:

 
faatal said:
The water voxel is 16 bits. It is a mass value. Water and blocks can both be in a voxel. Water looks at blocks to see if it can flow through. Rotation/shape of blocks is not a consideration as it would be complex and possibly very slow.
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Thanks. I infer from this that blocks actually have a variable byte size, didn't know that.

Concerning the flow through: Whether a block shape has that bit set should be shown by background color in the shape UI !! For water and for shooting through.

Builders need to know bullet and to a lesser extent water permeability. And now that we have thousands of blocks shapes nobody knows anymore.

 
faatal said:
Lots of things, mostly bugs. Currently POI imposter flickering between road paint vs the block below it, which probably started from the console guys reducing many vertex positions from 32 to 16 bits to save memory. The blocks below don't even need to be there, so fixing it is also an optimization. Console has tight memory constraints, so they are working hard to bring that down, which will also bring PC mem use down too.
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Interesting, so the work the console team are doing might bring more optimizations to the PC version that are required for console?

 
meganoth said:
Thanks. I infer from this that blocks actually have a variable byte size, didn't know that.

Concerning the flow through: Whether a block shape has that bit set should be shown by background color in the shape UI !! For water and for shooting through.

Builders need to know bullet and to a lesser extent water permeability. And now that we have thousands of blocks shapes nobody knows anymore.
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Good idea, but it would be ugly.  How about it uses that different icon atlas only in the prefab editor. 

 
Guppycur said:
Good idea, but it would be ugly.  How about it uses that different icon atlas only in the prefab editor. 
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I don't know why you think it would be ugly, wouldn't that depend on the bacground color being used?

Also I was talking about players who build, not POI designers. Though they probably could use the same feature in the prefab editor too

 
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meganoth said:
Concerning the flow through: Whether a block shape has that bit set should be shown by background color in the shape UI !! For water and for shooting through.
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I'm not against a background color change or a filter category but I think the blocks that have that attribute are simply any that don't fill the entire voxel volume so that water fills in all the visible space not used as well as flows past them. It may be completely intuitive which block shapes will allow water to flow in and through them.

Don't mistakenly build your underwater base walls out of bars and arrow slit blocks.... ;)  

 
Roland said:
I'm not against a background color change or a filter category but I think the blocks that have that attribute are simply any that don't fill the entire voxel volume so that water fills in all the visible space not used as well as flows past them. It may be completely intuitive which block shapes will allow water to flow in and through them.

Don't mistakenly build your underwater base walls out of bars and arrow slit blocks.... ;)  
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No, the important use case is to show the blocks you can shoot through, water is just icing on the cake.

Or am I confusing it with the selecting-through-a-block issue? Arrow slits for example should still be shoot-through, but you can not access a dart thrower behind it.

 
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meganoth said:
Concerning the flow through: Whether a block shape has that bit set should be shown by background color in the shape UI !! For water and for shooting through.

Builders need to know bullet and to a lesser extent water permeability. And now that we have thousands of blocks shapes nobody knows anymore.
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An alternative to the background color could also be a small icon in a corner similar to what we have with schematics.

 
Better flowing water would be great however at this time I do not think it is worth the effort. I have a feeling it will be like “oh that’s cool” then we all forget about it.

I prefer the Pimps double down and finish the game up then offer some sort of reasonably priced DLC. Maybe new POIs and new Zombies.

I used to like the idea of endless betas but now I want them to finish up and move on to the next project and ideally offer a similar early access.

 
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meganoth said:
No, the important use case is to show the blocks you can shoot through, water is just icing on the cake.

Or am I confusing it with the selecting-through-a-block issue? Arrow slits for example should still be shoot-through, but you can not access a dart thrower behind it.
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How about filter checkboxes at the top of the shapes menu for "shoot through" and "reach through"?  Check either of the boxes and it only shows you shapes with those qualities.

 
Fanatical_Meat said:
Better flowing water would be great however at this time I do not think it is worth the effort. I have a feeling it will be like “oh that’s cool” then we all forget about it.

I prefer the Pimps double down and finish the game up then offer some sort of reasonably priced DLC. Maybe new POIs and new Zombies.

I used to like the idea of endless betas but now I want them to finish up and move on to the next project and ideally offer a similar early access.
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Remember that it isn't simply for our pleasure.  As professionals and artists, they also want to offer up a technical masterpiece as their finished product. 

 
Fanatical_Meat said:
I have a feeling it will be like “oh that’s cool” then we all forget about it.
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Isn't that kind of the point, though? Nobody talks about how good the water is in some other games because its appearance and behavior is normal. People constantly talk about the water in 7DTD because it's noticeably bad and breaks immersion.

I don't want to notice the water.

 
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Syphon583 said:
Isn't that kind of the point, though? Nobody talks about how good the water is in some other games because its appearance and behavior is normal. People constantly talk about the water in 7DTD because it's noticeably bad and breaks immersion.

I don't want to notice the water.
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Meh, water needs a few improvements and it will be good enough.

 
Just having water no longer leave divets if you dig under it or if it isn't filled full enough would need a great improvement.  That's the most noticeable issue, imo.

I also like that it will share space with other blocks and that movement suited in water will be improved.

I don't know that it really needs anything else. Having good looking waterfalls would be nice, but isn't really that important.

 
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