Callum123456789
Active member
Yeah the bullet proof glass of doom in the downtown district does cause a lot of fps drops especially if there are skyscrapers next to each other.
PC Alpha 21 Dev Diary
- Thread starter Roland
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And, right above that there a section for town.
That leads me to believe that there can be a city slider too.
Astronomical
New member
Anyone who is even the least bit color blind is just scratching their head right now.
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Zombiepoptard
Active member
You are fighting a ghost here. You would just have separate skill points for combat and social skills. That way when you start out you can progress down your combat route and your life style route with out having to waste points crossing over attributes. (you would still have the ability to cross over but it would only be within combat) The separation keeps the player focused on combat builds while having managing the social elements in another window. You shouldn't have to compromise on two totally different systems. Instead the compromise should be within combat and within social skills. Do you want to play a thief type character or a tanky brute. Then on the other side do you want to be a builder, miner, barter, looter and quester. The system right know is a lot of wire crossing to get off skills that should even be in the same room.
the strong surviveAnyone who is even the least bit color blind is just scratching their head right now.
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RipClaw
Well-known member
And above that is a section for "countrytown" and then above that is one for "oldwest". It depends on the programming whether you create separate sliders for each section or combine everything under one slider. Someone would have to look at the DLLs but my guess is that these sections are combined under one slider.
Roland
Moderator
You aren't wasting points. You are paying a higher cost for some of the non-combat perks that you want. Again, I'm not understanding where the actual difference lies in what we have and your proposed system other than those non-combat perks being in a generic category. You stated that you are okay with some non-combat perks costing more. If you can forget for the moment that the extra points you are paying to cross over are giving you abilities that you don't necessarily care about and simply see those extra points as the more expensive cost then you'll understand that you've already got what you want.
When I cross over to get perks in a different attribute than I've been spending in, I see those perks as being more expensive with some added benefits for a few other weapons. When you cross over to get perks in a different attribute than you've been spending in, you see those perks as being more expensive with additional benefits that are totally wasted because you don't care about them. If we change it to your method the higher expense will be there for some perks but none of the extra benefits which I guess will make you happy since you don't want them but I like them since I often use a variety of weapons besides what I am most fully perked into.
We agree that at least some of the non-combat perks should be more expensive. I'm happy with the way they are more expensive now and like it better than the way you propose. The way you propose whichever non-combat perks are chosen to be the more expensive ones will always be the more expensive ones. The way it is now it depends on what your primary attribute is. Those non-combat perks will be cheap and the rest expensive. It makes it different when you choose different paths.
I do agree that more perks would be fun though.
Uncle Al
Active member
You can take every perk. You end up with about 20 perks points left over that you can't spend if you go all the way to the level cap, which is 300.
POCKET951
New member
on this note, though not planned for alpha 21, will we eventually see TFP take another look at the skill tree/levelcap and tweak it a bit (i.e making 250 levelcap and trimming the skill tree so you only need 250 points, or maybe adding new skills to add back up to 300?
JCrook1028
New member
That's wrong tho. The newer zombies actually use LESS resources despite looking better.
Zombiepoptard
Active member
If I wanted to max out cooking on another tree it would cost me 16 points just for the attribute alone and getting no benefit on the attribute itself because I'm crossing over without the intent to use the weapon it applies to. I'd then have to spend 5 points on cooking mastery. That in total would be 21 points just to max out one perk that isn't on my preferred weapon's skill tree. It would be a huge task to do all of that leveling when it could just be fixed with an organized and cost efficient system. Have combat perks and social perks be leveled up with two separate skill points so you could pursue both at the same time. This way you don't have to spend a lot of time leveling up 2 perks with a boat load of skill points. The devs could balance how much skill points cost for combat and skill tree. The players would look forward to the new combat perks that this system would need to add to make it work.
Rabbitslovecactus
New member
With all the new vehicle decorations being put into the game, will there be a lot more of them in cities and on roadways leading out of cities? This would give the impression of people leaving the city when the outbreak just occurred.
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Roland
Moderator
I know you were just using cooking as an example and I get your point. But I will say also that in the case of cooking as well as several other non-combat perks, the crafting recipe portions of those are gone now and separated to magazines. So a big portion of absolutely needing to max those out is gone in A21.
Secondly, I understand the costs. It's expensive. The difference between us is you see the benefits of the second attribute wasted because I guess you won't use a suboptimal weapon even if it does the job. So if you are fully perked in Machine Guns you won't touch a shotgun even though you are fully maxed in Strength in order to max cooking. In my case I'll have machine guns and shotguns on my belt and use both even if I haven't spent a single point in shotguns. Just the full Strength bonus alone makes shotguns pretty amazing as a secondary weapon. The fact that the 16 points is of no benefit to you is your choice by you ignoring those benefits. But they are still there.
Finally, the way the perks are separated makes it so that in some games you are a master cook but in other games you are not and you have to adapt and play differently. If cooking was separated into a generic category and its cost was set then every time you played, it would be the same.
What determines which type of skill points you get when you level up? Do you get one of each type? That just sounds like eliminating tough choices. You no longer have to choose between purchasing a combat perk or a non-combat perk. Now you can do both. Maybe I'm not understanding what you are proposing with two separate skill points but I see that as a loss of hard choices.
I like your ideas. If they were in a mod I think I would have a lot of fun playing that mod. I think all of these ideas about how to organize the perks are interesting but I think TFP's version is also interesting and has pros and cons but...doesn't need to be fixed. It isn't broken--just different.
If your ideas were the game's default version and TFP's was the mod I would enjoy playing the mod with their version as well.
Uncle Al
Active member
I agree it's a decent looking piece of design, from what we've been shown, but I do have a couple of concerns regarding supporting systems required to make new crafting really shine:
Removing the Q5 crafting cap. Madmole has said he'll consider it, so I have hope. Without that, however shiny our new toy is, the entire tool/weapon/armour half of the system just becomes redundant as soon as Q6 gear becomes available. That seems like a terrible shame.
Doing a perk rebalance. Without that we're going to have a ton of sub-par perks who used to have some value because they granted recipes. Master Chef, Advanced Engineering, along with half the INT tree, and even LotL 2 are glaringly bad when they no longer provide crafting recipes. Putting points into a terrible perk just to weight your magazine drop chances would feel horrible, especially if you're then unlucky with getting spec appropriate drops.
I'm sure the designers have already considered these issues when desiging the new crafting, so I do have plenty of faith that we'll get them. Or we'll get something else to mitigate the issues the new crafting system would have if it was just dropped into the rest of the game with no changes to other systems.
What I'm really hoping for is a perk rebalance that increases the value of the perks that lose recipes, while also bringing a bunch of the other unloved perks up to par a bit.
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Zombiepoptard
Active member
Yeah that's one of the good things about that update.
The increased headshot and limb damage is a odd benefit that only applies to a weapon when your using it. Agility should be more stamina, fortification should be more health, strength more damage on power attack, perception more headshot damage intelligence less chance to get debuffed and more effective at dealing with debuffs. That's just ideas off the top of my head.
Yes you would get one of each. You could balance it out my adjusting the cost.
There's a difference between a hard choice and a shotty choice. 7dtd limits the 2 big defining factor of how your going to play by making you compromise one for the other. Unless you just happened to play the way that tree wanted you to play but sometimes it compromises both. Example: I want to play fortitude not because I like the shotgun that much and not because I like farming that much but because I feel like it's an okay bundle of stuff and it limits me from play differently. Where if I had those two big choice to mix and match it would open up the rpg element of customizing how you want to play and adding more variety to my experience. People want to play differently and switch things up anyways you don't have to encourage there choices by bundling two unrelated features together. The hard choices would be within the two skill categories. You would just have to make more choices / perks for the combat trees... Probably make a hacking perk for intellect tree to make enemy poi turrets and enemy drones to turn on bandits/ zombies. You could probably do a lot more with hacking.
Thank you Roland
If I could mod this in I would. Maybe sometime in the future I'll start learning code and modding who knows. I hope modders are listening. I like skill trees in 7 days to die and don't want to go back to alpha16 but I feel like ever since alpha 17 the perk system has been a ruff draft. TFP's need to add more perks and fill out it's potential.
Jost Amman
Well-known member
Well, considering you didn't waste a single skill/perk point on it, it's not a big deal anyway.
Many things that are essential early game, become obsolete at a later stage. I see no difference here (again, consider the above).
Matt115
New member
Well that's why older "1-999" quality system was better - now there is no point to craft something like tools/weapons more that 1 time because repair kits are cheep - mods area easy to find so mods are too expensive to care about them - most perks in this scenario is usefull some of them are just useless like well isulted. But categories are the worst thing - because this is just waste of time. I think - skill tree for every type of weapon + magasines or books for crating and LBD for "body" would be the best option
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bdubyah
Well-known member
If only they would bring item degradation back. It solves multiple problems with the current system.
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