PC Alpha 21 Dev Diary

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Roland said:
When your hydration slips below 50%, suddenly you start considering slurping on some murk to trade a bit of health to avoid stamina loss.  
 
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So they changed that for A21?
Currently in A20, you start losing stamina regen at 75% hydration


Also, this change means we can no longer use snow to melt and boil? Or we simply can melt and boil snow and doesn't need a jar?

EDIT: Ok, so we can't melt/boil snow. I agree that currently snow is mega OP for water. But a strong nerf should happen instead of complete removal. Here's my suggestion:
-Lower the snowballs per block from 11 to 5.
-Increase the snowball cost to make water from 1 to 20.

This is a ~98% nerf and would take 4 blocks of snow to make 1 water (without motherlode)

 
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MisutoM said:
I guess we just pull a Thor move and slam them on the ground after? 
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Omg this is actually an interesting idea and something I’ve never seen in a game: forced character immersion

So: some items you really really could actually use in real life (like glass jars as an example) but make the game a bit weird (making water too easy, or an item devs don’t want you to have) the character immediately after use, destroys them in some character specific way. Like (glub glug glug) then they speak “Nobody needs this useless jar!” And smash it on the ground. Oh, they are just ignorant or have a big ego. 

then, other items they just seem to hate but it’s random or when they’re near water or a ledge they sometimes get triggered Like, you’re walking and see some water and stop for a drink. Suddenly “I hate this stupid (item)” and you throw your gun into the water (and it deepens immediately).

Blood moon in full swing and you shoot your AK and miss too much? A random “Stupid gun, the aim is off!” And it auto throws it and immediately Despawns. Or you miss with a knife 2 times and , whelp, your character got mad and blamed the knife and now it’s gone. 

In this way you would be punished with never knowing what is going to be auto trashed out of the characters core stats/frustration/ego. Additionally, maybe the more of x gets thrown away, a counter maxes out (maybe like 3-5 auto junk/throws in a row) and after that you can’t use that weapon/item anymore (no seriously your character just can’t use a bow because you can’t shoot with a bow either, or they literally random stat rolled and they hate bows.

It would also be a fun? Way to punish someone with too many resources in their backpack. Got 24k of rocks? “Damn that’s heavy!” Poof , a stack is thrown away now you have 18k rocks. Better start using or storing them!

 
zztong said:
One last thought before heading off to bed...

Water is heavy. A 1-gallon milk jug would be 8 lbs. If the design eventually comes around and lets us carry water from a lake back to base, you could make it so that it doesn't stack very well in inventory. Maybe the virtual "quart" jars only stack to 8 instead of 125, one bucket per slot, etc.
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Yeah, some of the stacking for “survival” items is really high and odd. I get wanting to have big stacks for the blocks/building items (and I think the stacks for building resources like rocks are a bit high as-is, but not a big deal except maybe wood/coal because it’s fuel for fires. Maybe just a reduced stack size for workstation fuel would be nice so the “burn time” of items would matter more?) but food/water feels better having low stack amounts. All/most? Of the medical items are low stack and it feels good (for survival).The ammo stack sizes are pretty perfect imho. 

 
zztong said:
Maybe the virtual "quart" jars only stack to 8 instead of 125, one bucket per slot, etc.
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Erg, 8 "pints" in a gallon. I'm a walking mistake. Boiled water stacks to 10, so maybe Murky water should too?

Laz Man said:
I think the changes are an improvement over the previous trivial water survival setup.
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Yeh, I'm not complaining about the direction. I have been guilty of calling the early game stage "7 Days to Find a Cooking Pot" as I find it absurd (in an entertaining way) all of the pots and pans have disappeared from the world, but I cannot deny it is a fun challenge.

Roland said:
I know that there is going to be a lot of debate over the next while over realism and gameplay and why jars have been removed except as a visual unit of drinkable liquid. I can’t fault anyone for thinking it is weird. This game has always been quirky and weird with the bottles.
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Heh, true. My favorite has been being unable to empty a jar of Murky Water without drinking it. (LOL) Still, it seems like a counter-intuitive hole in the game not to be able to carry water from a lake (or any source). Consider:

  • You walk to a lake, build a campfire, pull out your newly found cooking pot, and ... you cannot get water from the lake into the cooking pot.
  • You pull out a bucket, fill it with water ... and you cannot pour your bucket into the cooking pot.


It is so fundamental that I suspect not having it will lead to new players being lost or thinking it is broken. I can envision forum topics and bug reports from new players ... "I can't figure out how to get water from a lake."

Thanks for listening.

 
Thanks for the info Roland!

I don't think I saw these questions asked (there's LOTS of discussion going on on this news!), so I'll ask to be safe:

Like other workstations, as long as you've claimed an area, you can pick this up and move them, correct?

Also like other workstations, will we come across damaged ones that might contain pure water / components?

 
FranticDan said:
So they changed that for A21?
Currently in A20, you start losing stamina regen at 75% hydration


Also, this change means we can no longer use snow to melt and boil? Or we simply can melt and boil snow and doesn't need a jar?

EDIT: Ok, so we can't melt/boil snow. I agree that currently snow is mega OP for water. But a strong nerf should happen instead of complete removal. Here's my suggestion:
-Lower the snowballs per block from 11 to 5.
-Increase the snowball cost to make water from 1 to 20.

This is a ~98% nerf and would take 4 blocks of snow to make 1 water (without motherlode)
Click to expand...


Don't shoot me, but it is probably easier at this point to remove snow harvesting all together and just yield dirt back to the player...

*runs and hides*

 
Krows said:
Like other workstations, as long as you've claimed an area, you can pick this up and move them, correct?

Also like other workstations, will we come across damaged ones that might contain pure water / components?
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I don’t know about moving them. I assume so but haven’t tested it. 
 

That depends on the POI designers. They’d have to go back and add them to existing traders and use them for new POIs. There may be a ticket to add one to each trader compound. They would probably contain murk though. You really can’t find pure water in loot any longer! (Although you can buy it)

 
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I'm liking the water changes... except for not being able to fill jars.. it feels weirds...
about the dew collectors @Roland, how do you loot the collected water? does it spawn in a jar? are the jars free then if there are no more empty jars in game?

 
Laz Man said:
Don't shoot me, but it is probably easier at this point to remove snow harvesting all together and just yield dirt back to the player...

*runs and hides*
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Honestly, I wouldn't mind if this was considered if empty jars/crafting murky water is going to be removed. IMO snowballs has such limited uses, with murky water being it's main use (the only other uses being the yucca smoothie and throwing them like rocks). I always have surplus of snowballs and running out was never an issue (since recipe only needs 1 snowball).

It is nice being able to dig through snow easier compared to dirt though for digging quests.

 
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Jugom said:
I'm liking the water changes... except for not being able to fill jars.. it feels weirds...
about the dew collectors @Roland, how do you loot the collected water? does it spawn in a jar? are the jars free then if there are no more empty jars in game?
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image.png

You collect "Water". It is shown as water in a jar. When you use it, it adds water to the player and disappears.

 
I think it could probably be added that snowballs could be boiled for murky water making some of the balance changes to quantities and stack size and yields so that it isn’t really worth it to try and mass produce water that way but if you’re dying of thirst and can dig some snow and convert it to a bit of water to not die that should be doable. @schwanz9000 would have to take a look at it and get the okay from Madmole. 
 

Adding your own snowball-to-murky-water recipe and adjusting how many snowballs you can carry in a stack and how many you get from a snow block is the easiest kind of modding there is. :)
 

But it would be nice to have some more ice smoothie recipes. 

 
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Laz Man said:
Don't shoot me, but it is probably easier at this point to remove snow harvesting all together and just yield dirt back to the player...

*runs and hides*
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Well, if the grindy snow collecting, melting and boiling is removed from the snow biome. Why not remove yucca juice from the desert as well?
Keep it consistent ;)

(Disclaimer) I DON'T want that, but using logic!

 
FranticDan said:
Well, if the grindy snow collecting, melting and boiling is removed from the snow biome. Why not remove yucca juice from the desert as well?
Keep it consistent ;)

(Disclaimer) I DON'T want that, but using logic!
Click to expand...


That doesn't sound logical at all lol...  There isn't 1 million Yucca plants making up the terrain of the desert biome...😁

 
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