PC Alpha 21 Dev Diary

[Blake_]

Unloaded chunks and weather don't mix, so there is no current way to make it work with rain.

Why complicate things to yet again burn my potatoe to a crisp? It can fill up only when it rains on the loaded chunk. Anything outside of it can be faked as a very slow average. Or it can fill up every time a player encounters rain on ANY chunk (actually it would store an amount but not actually write it until the player opens the item or exits the game), that would probably be better.

The hard way is to check weather on the chunk from the moment the item is placed. That could be hard on the system if many are placed and be a bother in terms of performance vs gameplay gains.

 

[Jost Amman]

Guys, faatal already said they are busy with other stuff at the moment... it's either the rain collector OR the bandits.  :decision:

 

[meganoth]

If the chunk is unloaded it means no one was there to even know if it was raining or not, right?  Could it just be simply random at that point?

I'm not trying to tell you how to do it Im just curious if I'm even making sense, lol.

What should be avoided is that unloaded junks work differently than loaded ones. Otherwise players will meta-game it.

 

[Neminsis]

Hi pimps  

I love building in 7 days and if there was a way I could save some of my builds and port them over to a new server like after a wipe,backup or update etc that would be awesome.

Anyway I've had hours of fun in 7 days, thanks guys I know it's not always easy!

Love, 

Lbee

You can already do that.
 

 

[Naz]

Certainly, immersion levels will be at an all time high with all of these new props. 

As a player and preffaber i really appreciate these. They can really bring a vision to life and add a massive amount of authenticity to a build. However high detail block models have 2 achilles heels one of which i have a suggestion that could solve it. The first issue is performance, as a preffaber it's heart retching to know i can't use these amazingly detailed blocks because in larger builds the amount i would need would render the prefab unplayable. I can work around this issue by instead using simple shapes to "approximate" what ever is needed, bunk beds for example, ideally i would just stack beds but i can create them using simple shapes that look acceptable.

My solution however is for the 2nd issue related to performance. I noticed for example the conduit blocks got updated with more detailed 3d models. Instead of being basically 2d. However presumably when all these new block models were introduced they massively increased draw calls and performance. So to deal with that high detail block models are now completely culled when not near the player. This is great for performance but has the issue of degrading the players experience when these blocks poof in and out of existence and other blocks appear to float in mid air at a distance because the block under it is culled.

You can see this in these screenshots bellow of house_modern_05 the plants are in those bird bath blocks (i forget what their actual name is) however at a distance (33 blocks) they don't render and the plants appear to float.
 

Spoiler

My suggestion to solve this is, would it not be possible to use the same system that's already ingame to dynamically swap the zombies models for low Polly versions? maybe more a @faatal question we can sometimes catch a glimpse of how that works which can be both fascinating and hilarious at the same time

 ​

Could this system not also be used to swap block models for lower polly versions the same way it currently does for zombies? obviously not rendering at all is better for performance than rendering something so i have no idea if even if it could be done, could it be done with an acceptable performance trade off. Likely it would take too long to implement for a21 but i wonder if it's not a solution worth exploring for the future?

 

[Guppycur]

Track the weather on the player, not the container, and when they go to open the container that tracking determines the loot, aka water amount.

The beauty of it is that you already do the loot calculations using goggles and perks and stuff, so all you'd really need to add is a did it rain cvar on the player.

You're welcome.

/Helping since 1971 

 

[NekoPawtato]

Track the weather on the player, not the container, and when they go to open the container that tracking determines the loot, aka water amount.

The beauty of it is that you already do the loot calculations using goggles and perks and stuff, so all you'd really need to add is a did it rain cvar on the player.

Wouldnt that mean multiple players could loot the container at the same time and they would all get water?

i.e. 5 players open it and they all get (varying amounts of) water, rather than 1 person "emptying out" the container until it has to fill up again?

 

[Guppycur]

Wouldnt that mean multiple players could loot the container at the same time and they would all get water?

i.e. 5 players open it and they all get (varying amounts of) water, rather than 1 person "emptying out" the container until it has to fill up again?

Once looted it destroys itself into a new container that requires a new rain cvar id. 

Meh just make it a tile entity and chunk observer then. 

 

[Lord Ragnus]

The changes seem neat. My concern is that it will rend crafting pointless, as by the time you obtain 100 points into shotgun you will already have a level 6 Autoshotgun. Thoughts?

 

[faatal]

Track the weather on the player, not the container, and when they go to open the container that tracking determines the loot, aka water amount.

The beauty of it is that you already do the loot calculations using goggles and perks and stuff, so all you'd really need to add is a did it rain cvar on the player.

You're welcome.

/Helping since 1971 

We would not track weather on a container. It would be of the world and not per player. My point was, I'm not spending time tracking weather on anything.

The changes seem neat. My concern is that it will rend crafting pointless, as by the time you obtain 100 points into shotgun you will already have a level 6 Autoshotgun. Thoughts?

The idea is to have balanced systems. Not have useless parts of the game. Balance takes time and is subjective.

 

[faatal]

My suggestion to solve this is, would it not be possible to use the same system that's already ingame to dynamically swap the zombies models for low Polly versions? maybe more a @faatal question we can sometimes catch a glimpse of how that works which can be both fascinating and hilarious at the same time

​

 ​

Could this system not also be used to swap block models for lower polly versions the same way it currently does for zombies? obviously not rendering at all is better for performance than rendering something so i have no idea if even if it could be done, could it be done with an acceptable performance trade off. Likely it would take too long to implement for a21 but i wonder if it's not a solution worth exploring for the future?

It already does that. Block models are Unity prefabs. Most have LODGroup components in them which determines the render height at which each LOD is shown and when it is culled. Getting them consistent with each other is a challenge as there are many heights and differing amounts of LODs. You also want more trivial models to disappear sooner.

The Video>Quality>Object Quality setting determines how quickly distance causes it to step through those LODs, but it gets expensive using the higher settings. Is actually one of the more expensive graphics settings.

 

[Beelzebubs Ghost]

Why would anyone assume the water collector would be functional?

Look at the beautiful tractor model they have that isn't subject to the same internal detail constraints as the sedans preventing it being driveable - and that amazing piece of kit is disappointingly nothing more than a prop.

Absolute waste. 

 

[Blake_]

@faatal I have a few questions regarding bandits.

1. Will bandits be able to loot tailored containers for something specific for them or pick up dropped weapons?

2. Will bandits be able to jump obstacles and crouch as well as the player ? In those lines, do you plan on giving them also 1m 'egression' like future zds?

3. Do you plan on giving bandits sneaky behaviour towards us? Meaning silent night assaults with surrounding and stalking and the like, or even just passive camouflage at any given time (there's a costume already in for hidden sniping I believe).

4. How will bandit speed work?

Will they be faster or slower than the player? More or less stamina? Will they actually spend it?

5. Will bandits be capable of facial expressions? Blinks, eye movement, grins, ect.

6. Have you guys planned any means of transportation for hostile npcs going forward? (Pun intended?)

7. Will we be able to talk our way out from a dangerous situation regarding bandits? Like giving them X amount of dukes and then they let us go on for a few days?

Thank you very much for the patience.

 

[meganoth]

@faatal I have a few questions regarding bandits.

1. Will bandits be able to loot tailored containers for something specific for them or pick up dropped weapons?

2. Will bandits be able to jump obstacles and crouch as well as the player ? In those lines, do you plan on giving them also 1m 'egression' like future zds?

3. Do you plan on giving bandits sneaky behaviour towards us? Meaning silent night assaults with surrounding and stalking and the like, or even just passive camouflage at any given time (there's a costume already in for hidden sniping I believe).

4. How will bandit speed work?

Will they be faster or slower than the player? More or less stamina? Will they actually spend it?

5. Will bandits be capable of facial expressions? Blinks, eye movement, grins, ect.

6. Have you guys planned any means of transportation for hostile npcs going forward? (Pun intended?)

7. Will we be able to talk our way out from a dangerous situation regarding bandits? Like giving them X amount of dukes and then they let us go on for a few days?

Thank you very much for the patience.

8. Will the bandits get toilet and cigarette breaks? Do they have a trade union? Do they have a medical care insurance?

9. Will they question their own existence and contemplate whether they have a soul or are just simulated characters in a game?

 

[maxousara]

Meganoth post the ultimate question its so funny haha. I have questions too

1...Bandits prefer tacos or pizza ?? I'm so excited about the answer i roll on the floor until i have an answer.

2...Bandits are they more intelligent than true humans if yes WHY and HOW ??

 

[NekoPawtato]

Are bandits capable of drowning? (if underwater for long enough)

 

[Naz]

It already does that. Block models are Unity prefabs. Most have LODGroup components in them which determines the render height at which each LOD is shown and when it is culled. Getting them consistent with each other is a challenge as there are many heights and differing amounts of LODs. You also want more trivial models to disappear sooner.

The Video>Quality>Object Quality setting determines how quickly distance causes it to step through those LODs, but it gets expensive using the higher settings. Is actually one of the more expensive graphics settings.

definitely object quality is one of the only expensive options i try to keep as high as possible to stop blocks getting culled as often in sight. That's great news to hear it already does it, if i'm understanding correctly the object setting controls how far away objects will go through their lods before getting culled? and after a certain distance the object the object will stop switching out lods and get completely culled? i assume then it's too expensive to maintain the lowest quality lod at the same distance as a players view distance?

 

[Adam the Waster]

Armor i wear during my dates

 

[Roland]

Whelp…since it’s been outed…The dew collector is the new workstation. It is the lowest tier workstation and so will be the first one unlocked by reading Forge Ahead magazines. 
 

It slowly collects three bottles of pure water (irrespective of biome or weather sorry Gup).  Drinking water has been completely rebalanced for A21. Setting up multiple dew collectors will definitely become fundamental to survival and for building your base. 

 

[Fanatical_Meat]

Everyone calm the F down about the bandits. They are not going to be super masterful works of programming which no game developer has ever achieved.

they likely will be smarter zombies that will possibly fire guns at you. They will simply be another possibly tougher enemy to defeat.

Calm down or expect to be disappointed.