PC Alpha 20 Dev Diary

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Beelzebubs Ghost said:
You have taken my post, focused on one aspect of it, and completely missed the point. Well done.
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I didn't care to comment about your other point. I didn't miss it-- I ignored it. I have no objection to the devs making cars in the world fixable and drivable. If I did I would have given you a counterpoint on that aspect of your post. I picked out the part I did have a disagreement of and responded to that. Sorry it wasn't your main point but I have no argument with your main point.

 
If someone gets the sniper headshot book and then shoots a zombie in the head with a sniper rifle they have a 30% chance of causing stun on an irradiated, 40% on a feral, and 60% on other zombies. If someone shoots a zombie with a pipe shotgun without any books or points invested, they'll stun the zombie 100% of the time, even ferals and irradiated. I guess the in-game definition of a rifle is "a weak weapon that can shoot far, far away". Or, perhaps, the definition of shotgun is "a god-mode weapon for short range".

 
Just dropping this here from another thread.

BUG regarding Drones and Storage Mod Stacking.

Red Eagle LXIX said:
Vaxkiller said:
I just tried this last night and could not stack storage mods. Are you running a mod to enable this?
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No but I think you've found a bug. 

If you drag a second cargo mod over it won't add.

If you SHIFT-Click it will add more than 1.  Only seems to work for the Cargo Mod.

According to this post cargo mods are supposed to be able to stack but it appears that only works with SHIFT+CLICK.



Hated said:
Fixed 

  • Drone mods of the same type stack. Cargo mods are allowed to stack. 
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I have seen nothing after that stating they removed Cargo mod stacking.  Thus I think you have found a bug with the drag-n-drop of cargo mods.
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Roland said:
You could play the game like that or you could instead use a wrench to disassemble a bunch of cars and then use the xp earned from that activity to up your intellect and gain mechanical knowledge.
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did roland just advocate lbd?

69365520.jpg

 
dcsobral said:
Oh, you're right. But, nope. I've already gotten worked up about it, and I believe it will only stress me out even more if I report it. I'll just stop using arrow slits. Besides, the new behavior is clearly spelled out in the release notes themselves:
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I went ahead and opened one then 😛

Red Eagle LXIX said:
Just dropping this here from another thread.
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I think someone may have already filed a bug report on that, unless I'm misunderstanding the bug report

 
dcsobral said:
"If someone shoots a zombie with a pipe shotgun without any books or points invested, they'll stun the zombie 100% of the time, even ferals and irradiated. I guess the in-game definition of a rifle is "a weak weapon that can shoot far, far away". Or, perhaps, the definition of shotgun is "a god-mode weapon for short range".
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Unless that's unique to pipe shotguns and I don't remember it I know that's not true. One of the first things I did when I invested in Shotgun Messiah (or hobo or whatever) was to shoot a zombie to see if I got the stun and he just kept on coming. 

The stun from explosives works fine, but specced shotgun stuns don't always work, let alone unspecced.

 
Alpacko said:
did roland just advocate lbd?
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Voluntary LBD as a roleplaying choice...yes. I've actually posted several times over the past years since A16 how players can still play largely LBD using the existing model. But....it turns out most people care more for efficiency and fast leveling than they ever did for LBD. ;)

 
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Roland said:
Voluntary LBD as a roleplaying choice...yes. I've actually posted several times over the past years since A16 how players can still play largely LBD using the existing model. But....it turns out most people care more for efficiency and fast leveling than they ever did for LBD. ;)
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Well why you don't like LBD? it was pretty fun in my opinion ( but honestly i just didn't care about skill trees because i still care more about aestetic). In valheim it's works pretty good so it could be done good for 7dtd too

 
Matt115 said:
Well why you don't like LBD? it was pretty fun in my opinion ( but honestly i just didn't care about skill trees because i still care more about aestetic). In valheim it's works pretty good so it could be done good for 7dtd too
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I like LBD okay. I enjoy the freedom of using a central pool of xp for whatever I want to improve a bit better. I like playing how I like and focusing on what I think is fun but still being able to improve in the areas that I'd rather not grind up. The LBD in A16 was pretty good because you could grind or spend skill points as you chose.

My first choice would be to award xp based solely on time survived and not tie xp to any specific action at all. Simply have it be a reward for not dying. If you do die, the timer starts over for when you will earn your next xp payout. The problem with xp based on actions is that it incentivizes those actions in unnatural ways and instead of the focus being to live and survive in the world, the focus becomes doing specific highly effective actions to slurp up xp. The game becomes all about leveling up instead of living and surviving in the world. Remove the xp carrot and suddenly the only actions a player needs to do are the actions they want to do in order to survive. Without zombie kill xp you would only kill zombies when needed instead of hunting them down and farming them for precious progress currency.

The problem I have with LBD is that it exacerbates that distraction from natural play even more by encouraging players to grind unnaturally or even finding ways to set up an automatic process to level up while AFK. For a great look at the power of LBD to overwhelm the game and plunge players into an xp centric mindset just look at the current state of the trader quests. Trader quest progression is currently an LBD model. By doing quests you go up in quest tiers and progress. Look at how much questing now dominates the game and how players often feel compelled to spam multiple quests a day so they can grind up their "quest skill" with the trader and move from T1 to T5 as quickly as possible. Can anyone really point at grinding multiple quests a day to the exclusion of most other activities and call that natural and normal?

People used to explore POI's just because it was fun to clear them and explore. Since questing for the traders became LBD-like there seems to be a lot less exploring and clearing a city like there used to be and a lot more ignoring all POI's except the ones the traders send you to. People complain that they keep getting sent to the same POIs as if they couldn't go and explore a new POI without a quest. But the power of the LBD model for progressing up the quest tiers is so strong it wouldn't occur to most people to "waste their time" on non-quest POI's.

Do I have fun questing and rising in the ranks? Yes. So I don't hate LBD. I just recognize how XP-centric models change the player focus from living and surviving in a virtual world into a focus of simply acquiring xp and leveling up and I think it is too bad. I hear that @Boidster is possibly working on a cool time-based xp alternative. I wonder how that is coming along....?

 
Building a new gaming PC mainly for the best experience of playing 7days to die. I think A20 is almost flawless. Do we have a rough estimate to when A21 will be released. I know the fun pimps motto is it is ready when it is ready which I totally agree with. But would like to know if it is the end of this year or sometime next year. I base all my game purchases around new version releases of 7DTD since this is the game I play 90% of the time. I know I will be grinding hard in Starfield which I hope does not conflict with the release of A21. 

 
MJD24 said:
Unless that's unique to pipe shotguns and I don't remember it I know that's not true. One of the first things I did when I invested in Shotgun Messiah (or hobo or whatever) was to shoot a zombie to see if I got the stun and he just kept on coming. 

The stun from explosives works fine, but specced shotgun stuns don't always work, let alone unspecced.
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Stun means slower, as far as 7d2d is concerned.

 
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MJD24 said:
Unless that's unique to pipe shotguns and I don't remember it I know that's not true. One of the first things I did when I invested in Shotgun Messiah (or hobo or whatever) was to shoot a zombie to see if I got the stun and he just kept on coming. 

The stun from explosives works fine, but specced shotgun stuns don't always work, let alone unspecced.
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@dcsobral

THIS. It says shotguns get a stun but that doesn't happen

 
Roland said:
I like LBD okay. I enjoy the freedom of using a central pool of xp for whatever I want to improve a bit better. I like playing how I like and focusing on what I think is fun but still being able to improve in the areas that I'd rather not grind up. The LBD in A16 was pretty good because you could grind or spend skill points as you chose.

My first choice would be to award xp based solely on time survived and not tie xp to any specific action at all. Simply have it be a reward for not dying. If you do die, the timer starts over for when you will earn your next xp payout. The problem with xp based on actions is that it incentivizes those actions in unnatural ways and instead of the focus being to live and survive in the world, the focus becomes doing specific highly effective actions to slurp up xp. The game becomes all about leveling up instead of living and surviving in the world. Remove the xp carrot and suddenly the only actions a player needs to do are the actions they want to do in order to survive. Without zombie kill xp you would only kill zombies when needed instead of hunting them down and farming them for precious progress currency.

The problem I have with LBD is that it exacerbates that distraction from natural play even more by encouraging players to grind unnaturally or even finding ways to set up an automatic process to level up while AFK. For a great look at the power of LBD to overwhelm the game and plunge players into an xp centric mindset just look at the current state of the trader quests. Trader quest progression is currently an LBD model. By doing quests you go up in quest tiers and progress. Look at how much questing now dominates the game and how players often feel compelled to spam multiple quests a day so they can grind up their "quest skill" with the trader and move from T1 to T5 as quickly as possible. Can anyone really point at grinding multiple quests a day to the exclusion of most other activities and call that natural and normal?

People used to explore POI's just because it was fun to clear them and explore. Since questing for the traders became LBD-like there seems to be a lot less exploring and clearing a city like there used to be and a lot more ignoring all POI's except the ones the traders send you to. People complain that they keep getting sent to the same POIs as if they couldn't go and explore a new POI without a quest. But the power of the LBD model for progressing up the quest tiers is so strong it wouldn't occur to most people to "waste their time" on non-quest POI's.

Do I have fun questing and rising in the ranks? Yes. So I don't hate LBD. I just recognize how XP-centric models change the player focus from living and surviving in a virtual world into a focus of simply acquiring xp and leveling up and I think it is too bad. I hear that @Boidster is possibly working on a cool time-based xp alternative. I wonder how that is coming along....?
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Rly idk how @meganoth cut posts in parts using quoting. 

1. Well in my opinion LBD can be good if it will be made in vaheilm style : you are running  24/7? you will be literaly flash but you will terrible in mining. You shot a lof? you can relaoad faster but you can't hit zombie harder using a cube.  Just throw "skill point" into bin.

2. I agree about grinding - people will always trying to make this easier to level as fast as they can. But maybe if it will be made like : you doing x so you are good in doing x could be good option. 

3. About traders. Well it is true - it is overpower. But until we don't get story i think is the best motivation - TLOUS main hero was doing jobs , main hero of fallout was doing jobs so this is just typical way of survival in post apo universes. So this the most logical playstyle. 

4. Well now  you have two options: doing quests for traders or try survive as long as you can (or get bored).  there is no story or bosses or lore to find so i understand why doing quests is so popular

5. Honestly - "exploring"  most POI's was never  fun for me. don't make me wrong - they looks rly good but from logical point of view there is no reason to go inside them example: military base? guns so it is worthy to looting , book shop? books . DIY shops? - tools.  Cementary, church nothing ( i know there is tons of secrets but still it is better too loot shop right?)  houses are early stage place of looting etc. I know i'm controverisal now but : most POI's without lore are backgroud for me . But i apprecient that they added them - in dreadout 2 you can find newsstand but you can go inside them but looks greate, shops, fields markets add more into this game from "settin" point of view.

So quest "force" you to go inside cementary etc because without quest it will be wast of time - why go to somewhere where you will find 5 bullets, bones and junk when you can go inside bookstore.  But i don't understand this people complaing - i don't see a reason to go somewhere don't mean i think something must be done about that.

6. Well XP centic in often problem in games and can be exploited but skyrim can be good example : you want to be the best mage in skyrim? you have to using spells, you want to make better sword? you have to make sword etc. Ofc everything can be exploited - alchemy for example but it is players choice if they will find  this and use this. 

I think if would be done nothing to change trader quests but  story would be added people will make story just because this is "main" reason what to do. 

And about kiling zombies : well that's why people in TWD just ignoring them - there is no point to kill them most of time. This same thing in metal gear survival. I think it is just good- why to risk and waste ammo/durability for nohing?  I think it is common trope in zombie universes. In DL2 i don't see point to kiling normal zombies if this is not necceary - like doing quest or zombies are near of crate.  In l4d2 sometimes it is just better sometimes to ignore them that waste ammo and time. Well this can be use for another game right?

Fun facts ; it is better to not level up in oblivionXD 

 
ltbrunt said:
Building a new gaming PC mainly for the best experience of playing 7days to die. I think A20 is almost flawless. Do we have a rough estimate to when A21 will be released. I know the fun pimps motto is it is ready when it is ready which I totally agree with. But would like to know if it is the end of this year or sometime next year. I base all my game purchases around new version releases of 7DTD since this is the game I play 90% of the time. I know I will be grinding hard in Starfield which I hope does not conflict with the release of A21. 
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It depends when all the main features of a21 get done. We don't have any giant features like the RWG overhaul in a20, so hopefully it will take less time than a20, but we can't say for sure as many of the features are still big changes like the water overhaul.

 
Any plans to tone down the absolute ridiculous amount of books you are getting from newspaper stands at the moment? Just watching Woodle go into a city day 1 and almost finish multiple book series by the end of the day. Seems a bit broken. I know they spawn the "lesser" series but it still feels like too much.

 
bdubyah said:
Any plans to tone down the absolute ridiculous amount of books you are getting from newspaper stands at the moment? Just watching Woodle go into a city day 1 and almost finish multiple book series by the end of the day. Seems a bit broken. I know they spawn the "lesser" series but it still feels like too much.
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Watched it recently.

On one of my savegames, the ratio between books and papers is 1:10 roughly. And till day 46 now, which with lucky looter 3lvl  and lucky goggles started to progres to no more than 3:10. 

I am unlucky ass.

 
I also seem to get paper 9 out of 10 times or more often from scavenging...even with lucky looter and goggles...
Then I moved my base to the snow and around those cities , it seems to be better , around 25% of the time there to get a book...with the above bonuses as well

 
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