PC Alpha 20 Dev Diary

[Callum123456789]

Devs please make a CLEAR statement.

What does the Land Claim Block do
What does the sleeping bag do
Which one protects against zombie respawn

There are no clear statements about it and there are two opinions in the 7D2D community. What's right now? One side says the LCB protects against respawn the other side says ONLY the sleeping bag does that. Are there differences between single and multiplayer?

Please enlighten us. The wikis are so outdated that nothing fits anymore

And please, only an official dev answer. We have more than enough player responses and in the end nobody knows what is going on because everyone has different opinions

Thanks Sixx

the bedroll blocks zombie spawns the size of the bedroll claim can be influenced in the games menu which prevents sleepers from respawning in that area weather it is 5 blocks or 15 another thing to note about sleepers respawn based on where the player is located so lets say that player x is x amount of metres away from said poi after like 2 or 3 days those sleepers will respawn but if the player goes there before they respawn it interrupts the sleepers respawn times and resets back to 2 or 3 days  and again the land claim block prevents the wilderness zombies also know as biome spawns which i believe the default is 60 blocks which means no zombies should respawn in that 60 block radius of the land claim block i know you said you only want dev replies but i have done tons of research, looked in the game files myself for hours and have done lots of testing myself lcbs used to be bugged but they appear to be working as intended in this current alpha being 20.2 

and in terms of multiplayer and single player they do not effect zombie spawns only players block damage is influenced  by said claimed land from hostile players 

 

[Matt115]

A pre-release DLC is a bad idea.

I think not always : let's say this is game similiar to Heroes of might and magic - and let say you have humans, elves, dwarves etc and default look for humans are "wolf kingdom" so it can added by DLC here " snake kingdom" as just retexture of human kingdom - nothing is change just look. So  in this same time devs can add new factions , units make great rebalance etc. Why? because if they would do this same thing people will bombarding about bad balance, small number of units etc but if they will keep in early access to avoid review bombing but release dlc too 

I don't think the owners particularly want to do child zombies. There's a good chance they wouldn't be in the game even if every country on earth said, "Killing infected children in a video game is perfectly fine by us". You would have to get an answer from Mr Mole directly on whether they would want to use such a loophole to put child zombies in the game once they turn to DLCs.

Well i think there is more example how can loophole can be used : adding more advance gore in L4D2 and cod WAW style , drugs like morhpine ( idk if something change about law here - i read article about problem with skyrim in few countries because there is drug skooma) etc. So this can be usefull solution if this work .

Btw about child zombies - i think it could  be part of "enemy pack" - let say 30 new zombies types + new bandit faction + flamethrower. 

1. gameplay possible : well zombies like charger,hunter, smoker from l4d2 cannot be implemented because they are coop "types" so : zombie in this way need QTE or some type of "defence" item- taser etc but it can create bugs + if this zombie attack you rest zombie can attack you so this would be annoing.

Big zombie cannot be added - that's why we don't get behemot. 

zombie similiar to charger from DL2 could create bugs if this zombie could attack near wall by throwing players inside a wall

So what could be done? : water zombie, range zombie, infection/radiation cloud zombie,  armored zombies, "witch" zombie, armed zombies, weak zombie, regenerator zombie, passive zombie, teen zombie , animals zombies

2. gameplay sense:

Okay water zombie can have sens always so short- it can explode swim etc a lot of thing can be done here, 

Range zombie - Now we have Cop and mutated zombie - so cop is explosive / long range and mutated is short range /infection - so i suggest add weaker long and short range zombie shooting with acid but making bigger pool of acid. zombie with guns can be added but.. idk if this type of zombie will be not so similar to bandits- it's works in stalker but stalker zombies have rly bad accuracy but there is big number of them

Infection cloud/radiation cloud zombie - zombie emiting radiation similiar to dl toxic zombie or hazmat zombie from dead trigger. So this can be done

Armor zombie - well can be done and can be interesting

Witch - Valve love crossovers- we have crossover with NZA, DL1,RE6 so i think they would agree to transfer witch from l4d2 - just change a little bit design. But if not i think it can be done something similar

Armed zombies- well this depends how bandits works so idk if zombie with melee weapons can work or not

Weak zombies - not for dlc but for basic game this one could works good - grandpa or decyed zombie 

Passive zombie - not for dlc again

Regenenerator - well zombie with plants or fungus on it would be interesting enemy

teen zombie- small but faster but less hp- well faster that normal zombie and harder to hit but pretty weak so this can be interesting and no more room in hell is good example about that

animals zombie - honestly... i think only crocodyle, lion or tiger and mutated big snake could be added too - Well people hate spiders so a lot of people would complain about big spider, elephant is too big like behemot

Aestetic : okay we have more "WD" types of zombies with mutants but only "humanoid like" and "not crazy" ones - So mutants like  nemesis , Mr. X ,uroboros, resident evil werewolfs will not suit here .

So :  water zombies will suit for sure, range zombie probably another acid one would but with guns not.  Cloud will suit good, armored zombie  - zombie riot armor, saper suit maybe something in cod in payday collosus armor would suits perfect maybe even with fungus as armor.  A lot of games have similiar zombies so just put them in water

Witch would suit perfect- i think it would be nice trolling for new players- they would think there is survivor but it is a zombie. Well this type of zombie would need to be closed in room but a lot of POI have closed rooms

Armed zombie- well this depends how bandits works

Weak - yes - very weak, old or rotten zombie would looks rly good - well old corpse get out from his coffin as zombie  - perfect for body pits, cementary, hospitals,  desert , wastelands etc

Passive zombie - even weaker zombie - let say dried out zombie on desert could be interesting - rare zombie but unable to attack you - so it can be on wastelands and desert but rare and maybe in few pois like labs, hospitals etc

Regenerator- this could be mutant like spider zombie , fungus one or plant one - so this will suits for sure but where it can be find depends on design

Teen zombies - well no more room, is the best example how it can work and it can be pretty universal- it can be outside and inside a lot of POI.

Animals zombie - well crocodyle zombie need lakes, rivers swamps so this can be bigger problem that drowned zombies, lion or tiger zombie could work as boss in few pois, snakes can be on wastelands and dessert right.

So : possible variants of zombies are very limited in 7dtd because they gameplay and "virus" type zombies. @Roland i hope i didn't make any bigger mistakes about possible zombie types and i just hope Mr. Mole will respond what he is thinking about that. I know he is busy men so he probably will not have time to read this but i hope at least this  arguments will be interesting and logical for you

 

[Matt115]

Solving a problem not many people see at all. We already have animals and a zombie variant of height 1.

That's true - we have animals and height 1 zombies but that's like said : we have bolt action guns and smg so we don't need something between. crawler is slow and weak but hard to spot, spider is fast have a lot of hp and jump, dogs wolfs and direwolf are fast as hell and have a lot of hp. zombie teens could be a little bit faster ( x1,25) that zombie normal zombie, smaller number HP and smaller dmg but harder to hit - well hl1 normal headcrab and fast headcrab are similiar but diffrent enough to be interesting

Eastern titles also often have much much more grind and some cultures there don't even have a problem with pay-to-win. The success of such titles in the western hemisphere is limited. A pre-release DLC could maybe work there but will definitetly create bad blood in our parts. Whether that makes a big dent in the long-term financial success is a question not even the ark-developers really know though they could have an idea.

For the soundtrack to be a DLC worth the name it would have to be *C*ontent added to the game, not something you install in your mp3 player. I would call that merchandise.

If you want to support TFP, there is already merchandise available, coasters and t-shirts.

Well i think this depends on type of game - DTD pre release DLC can't work good but with one exception. That is sure for me. But let say additional looks for soldiers, avatars etc.

But one thing could suit good - conversion dlc - this could work similiar to call to arms : gates of hells ost front. This would allow to develop main game and dlc in this same time. 

Well in theory this could be release as standalone spin off but 2 reason why this is bad idea : 1. it would be similiar to 7dtd so probably will be cheaper - so people will bought this only - if this will be dlc people will need to buy 7dtd and dlc. 2.  Some people could feel deceived if they put new game on steam without finishing old one and console edition 

 

[Grandpa Minion]

Keep in mind that reputation was never listed as a goal or stretch goal in the original kickstarter but has been talked about by Madmole several times in the past. That means it could change or even be cut.

Today is not the same as X years ago. When 7d2d came out it was a unique concept with many great ideas. I think it is fair to say in modern times you can't compare those ideas from the past to what it is today since it has been many years from the start of 7d2d. Things change and my recommendation would be for them to get up to speed on the new trends that players are looking for. 

 

[Sixx]

Did you read the tutorial messages about these topics?

If you look at them, they're pretty clear...  :nerd:

Spoiler

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Spoiler

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ähm.. SURE... years ago and then never again

It's still strange. I have a wall around my base. 4 blocks high and despite the LCB I always have

zombies and animals in the base.. they have to come from somewhere.

The question you might ask is how old is the tutorial description?
Is that a current adapted A20.. is it from the A18 or A16.. from when? And is that
actually still the case.. I think the last wiki explanation is from the A17

It is not without reason that one reads again and again, Respawn within the
LCB - for whatever reason Therefore,

a current statement by the Davs would be important.
If it is confirmed that the LCM prevents the respawn,
there are other circumstances that override this.

 

[ParadiseLostUK]

ähm.. SURE... years ago and then never again

It's still strange. I have a wall around my base. 4 blocks high and despite the LCB I always have

zombies and animals in the base.. they have to come from somewhere.

In my experience the only way to stop spawns within your perimeter walls is to place blocks over any terrain blocks inside your walls.

 

[Matt115]

Today is not the same as X years ago. When 7d2d came out it was a unique concept with many great ideas. I think it is fair to say in modern times you can't compare those ideas from the past to what it is today since it has been many years from the start of 7d2d. Things change and my recommendation would be for them to get up to speed on the new trends that players are looking for. 

Well honestly only similiar good games to 7DTD are minecraft and valheim . So there isn't any competitors

 

[Slingblade2040]

Unless they make the DLC as good as Darkness falls then I see no point in purchasing any DLC.

No disrespect to the pimps but alot of the mods bring elements to this game that alot of players enjoyed that for some reason TFP decided to remove like LBD, more zombies in cities, massive roaming hordes and actual survival elements.

 

[SnowDog1942]

Unless they make the DLC as good as Darkness falls then I see no point in purchasing any DLC.

No disrespect to the pimps but alot of the mods bring elements to this game that alot of players enjoyed that for some reason TFP decided to remove like LBD, more zombies in cities, massive roaming hordes and actual survival elements.

DLC may not be just something new that we see.  It may introduce new framework programming in the background that modders can hook up to and expand upon, but perhaps wouldnt need to exist without the DLC

 

[Beelzebubs Ghost]

I'd just like to weigh in on the topic of the raft.

I will start from the outset by saying I do think the raft would be nice once water is overhauled as an addition for those who would use it.

I wouldn't, but unlike some posters on here who want features they don't like to be banished to the netherrealm, I welcome them.

My reason for not using it however, which I think I can confidently state in advance is the fact it seems useless.

Yes, it'd be transport, but you'd need to be cut off; by a large body of water; and from something very important, in order to use it for serious travel.

There is also the option of cutting yourself off from the world with island building, which seems a secondary absurdity outside of aesthetics, since zombies can and will spawn wherever you are.

Another objection I have is based on the fact zombies move through water like olympic swimmers. This is so stupid but it's currently a mechanic in the game, so you will still be gotten no matter.

On this evaluation I see the raft as more of a gimmicky new mode of transport which will add very little to the game, yet as before, if the devs are willing to add it then I welcome it as a feature which will make those who use it very happy.

On new additions, can we get a confirmation in either the positive or negative on the increased zombie variants in the game? 

We really, and I mean REALLY need some undead diversificatiom in the snow biome especially. It really puts the game in a bad light the endless clones of the hideous dwarfised lumberweakling, who really needs some of that chilled blue skin back and a few inches added onto him, with some hers, and some body shape and face variations.

Cheers.

 

[Beelzebubs Ghost]

Unless they make the DLC as good as Darkness falls then I see no point in purchasing any DLC.

No disrespect to the pimps but alot of the mods bring elements to this game that alot of players enjoyed that for some reason TFP decided to remove like LBD, more zombies in cities, massive roaming hordes and actual survival elements.

Yeah the Devs seem quite behind in some aspects.

Look at the MD-500 chopper for example, the devs (Madmole specifically) were on about adding a helicopter which sounded amazing but no word since.

The MD is an excellent mod but came with horrendous controls. I'm clueless about modding but the heli aggravated me so much I committed myself to fixing them 

Once I adjust the lift a tiny little bit I will submit the mod to the original uploader with the new controls for everyone to use

 

[Matt115]

Unless they make the DLC as good as Darkness falls then I see no point in purchasing any DLC.

No disrespect to the pimps but alot of the mods bring elements to this game that alot of players enjoyed that for some reason TFP decided to remove like LBD, more zombies in cities, massive roaming hordes and actual survival elements.

Well fortunatly it will be much better that darkness falls... well this is not even hard to do something better that this in my opinion XD

On new additions, can we get a confirmation in either the positive or negative on the increased zombie variants in the game? 

We really, and I mean REALLY need some undead diversificatiom in the snow biome especially. It really puts the game in a bad light the endless clones of the hideous dwarfised lumberweakling, who really needs some of that chilled blue skin back and a few inches added onto him, with some hers, and some body shape and face variations.

We will get problably soon

Yeah the Devs seem quite behind in some aspects.

Look at the MD-500 chopper for example, the devs (Madmole specifically) were on about adding a helicopter which sounded amazing but no word since.

The MD is an excellent mod but came with horrendous controls. I'm clueless about modding but the heli aggravated me so much I committed myself to fixing them 

Once I adjust the lift a tiny little bit I will submit the mod to the original uploader with the new controls for everyone to use

At least they keep how game looks quiet consistent (POI, props, zombie models etc) , not like a lot of modders xd 

 

[Red Eagle LXIX]

Yeah the Devs seem quite behind in some aspects.

Look at the MD-500 chopper for example, the devs (Madmole specifically) were on about adding a helicopter which sounded amazing but no word since.

The MD is an excellent mod but came with horrendous controls. I'm clueless about modding but the heli aggravated me so much I committed myself to fixing them 

Once I adjust the lift a tiny little bit I will submit the mod to the original uploader with the new controls for everyone to use

I prefer the mod called 'Helicopter' myself.  It makes use of the TFP Helicopter code and flies decent enough.  I just have to remember to keep it fueled since that code doesn't stop flying when fuel runs out which would be a bit cheaty.

 

[dcsobral]

I am very unhappy with the ability to repair electric fence posts through arrow slits being removed.I typically place arrow slits above the electric fence line in my horde base walls. it was a tight design allowing for fence posts to be placed side by side down a hallway ant to be repaired from above. not being able to repair or use a wiring tool through the arrow slit will mean having to pick them up to repair them all and then place them back down again. more tedium of this nature = less fun.

The rest of the changes seem good. this is my only complaint so far.

See, that's why we can't have good things. Repairing electric fences through arrow slits -- and wiring them as well -- was an essential building technique, but because some people used arrow slits as a "force field" and some other people were incensed that people could do that...

 

[Beelzebubs Ghost]

I prefer the mod called 'Helicopter' myself.  It makes use of the TFP Helicopter code and flies decent enough.  I just have to remember to keep it fueled since that code doesn't stop flying when fuel runs out which would be a bit cheaty.

I will have a look at it and check it out.

I remapped the MD controls from the really weird layout before and now the controls are Spacebar for lift, C for descent and W for forward lean and S for backwards lean.

Both A and D turn the chopper left and right respectively. It's fluent and very intuitive to use unlike the Hind heli mod and another that had W for lift and S for descend, and the spacebar and C button tilting forwards and backwards respectively.

@Matt115 Yes they have kept things apocalyptic and consistent just some other vehicles and zombies would really spice up the game.

I know there are mods to add bikes in bins but the chance to find them missing wheels or handlebars would be great, same with those sedans - I'd really like to drive one vanilla after repairing it.

More poi's could include actual huge malls with smaller outlets like food stores and shops like Savage Country with the chance to find hatchets or bikes and other camping gear that could be used as weapons.

Lets see what the devs declare.

 

[AdventSeph]

Well but frames are exploit not system

The point was to refer that a raft would not be a powerful addition to survive the 7th day.
Frames are working as intended, they are not being used as glitch to survive the feral horde, that is the problem.
If someone suggests the raft to be "too powerful" and that should delay its deployment into the game, this whole idea doesn't make sense because there are several other ways to avoid the feral night, being a exploit or not.
A raft would only be another way to avoid the feral night as the game currently is. I am not flaming the game, just the idea that a Raft would be of any interference in the horde night.

 

[Matt115]

@Matt115 Yes they have kept things apocalyptic and consistent just some other vehicles and zombies would really spice up the game.

I know there are mods to add bikes in bins but the chance to find them missing wheels or handlebars would be great, same with those sedans - I'd really like to drive one vanilla after repairing it.

More poi's could include actual huge malls with smaller outlets like food stores and shops like Savage Country with the chance to find hatchets or bikes and other camping gear that could be used as weapons.

Lets see what the devs declare.

Short - No. - Darkness falls? anime succub and laser guns XD Xyth creature pack - some zombies looks great and could suit into vanilia but a lot of them don't. En zombies looks good just there is a small problem because it is not possible to make child zombie so Error change them into goblins etc.  

7DTD don't have mods like skyrim immersive creatures or stalker lost alpha or star wars bf2 (classic) remaster mod - lore friendly , with this same art style that basic game and logical variants ( by this i mean - zombie with melee weapons in skyrim, bandits with ppsh in stalker or  B1 droids with assult weapon in bf2 ) 

The point was to refer that a raft would not be a powerful addition to survive the 7th day.
Frames are working as intended, they are not being used as glitch to survive the feral horde, that is the problem.
If someone suggests the raft to be "too powerful" and that should delay its deployment into the game, this whole idea doesn't make sense because there are several other ways to avoid the feral night, being a exploit or not.
A raft would only be another way to avoid the feral night as the game currently is. I am not flaming the game, just the idea that a Raft would be of any interference in the horde night.

eh... I will give cod CW as example - they added climbing , jumping on random things in zombie and in some places zombies can't climb - so this could be OP right? So they added new ability for zombies - throwing guts so climbing is not so powerful. So if they want to add raft they have to add type of water hazard - like water zombie. Ofc in cod in some places zombie don't know what to do so you are safe but it is a exploit - but in theory thery is counter against climbing stategy

 

[meganoth]

See, that's why we can't have good things. Repairing electric fences through arrow slits -- and wiring them as well -- was an essential building technique, but because some people used arrow slits as a "force field" and some other people were incensed that people could do that...

Put yourself into the shoes of a game designer (not a graphics designer, I assume you know the difference). Imagine you built this game, designed all the rules the player has to follow. I.e. can't fly by himself, moves at that max speed, has hitpoints and dies when he looses them all, all of those are in essence rules limiting the player. You built dangers into your game and ways to overcome those dangers, achievable with effort. You made dangers and remedies balanced and bath in the glory of a successful game.

Would you now keep something you consider an exploitable item unchanged in the game if you think it just makes the dangers you built into the game vanish as soon as the player knows this item exists? If that item broke an important rule you designed the game with? If you see players on youtube just sitting safe in their horde base making fun of the ineffectual zombies in this game that don't even have a chance to reach them? Do you really think you would need some forum users complaining to get you into action?

I can only repeat what Roland said multiple times: Every day dozens of suggestions turn up in the forum and it is highly likely that one of those has guessed what the developers had planned all along. Doesn't mean the suggestion was causing that decision. Often suggestions are even the opposite of other suggestions, no wonder that one will come true.

 

[Arma Rex]

I prefer the mod called 'Helicopter' myself.  It makes use of the TFP Helicopter code and flies decent enough.  I just have to remember to keep it fueled since that code doesn't stop flying when fuel runs out which would be a bit cheaty.

Where would I find this mod? Was unaware TFP has code specifically for a helicopter, let alone that a mod [SIZE=11pt]utilizes [/SIZE]this code, a welcome improvement over what current mods use.

 

[Matt115]

Put yourself into the shoes of a game designer (not a graphics designer, I assume you know the difference). Imagine you built this game, designed all the rules the player has to follow. I.e. can't fly by himself, moves at that max speed, has hitpoints and dies when he looses them all, all of those are in essence rules limiting the player. You built dangers into your game and ways to overcome those dangers, achievable with effort. You made dangers and remedies balanced and bath in the glory of a successful game.

Would you now keep something you consider an exploitable item unchanged in the game if you think it just makes the dangers you built into the game vanish as soon as the player knows this item exists? If that item broke an important rule you designed the game with? If you see players on youtube just sitting safe in their horde base making fun of the ineffectual zombies in this game that don't even have a chance to reach them? Do you really think you would need some forum users complaining to get you into action?

I can only repeat what Roland said multiple times: Every day dozens of suggestions turn up in the forum and it is highly likely that one of those has guessed what the developers had planned all along. Doesn't mean the suggestion was causing that decision. Often suggestions are even the opposite of other suggestions, no wonder that one will come true.

Well this is not black and white . One from metroid series game give you award cutscene and let you kill boss faster if you get item using exploit. In Witcher 3 killing cows for skins were good way to earn money but now this exploit is solved by adding "cow avenger" monster.  Well this depends on exploit in my opinion - item copy  exloit need to be fixed in normal way but this AI exploit can be solved more unusual - zombie can't reach player? well maybe let demolisher zombie to explode himself if he can't reach player after 30 after spawning. For me  perfect passive defense in magnus opus. Why? in my opinion this in 1 of 2 main targets of zombie sandbox survival games.  Another one is farm of basic resources (water, oxygen, food , whatever is need to be alive). Well i don't know what Madmole, Faatal and rest of team think and what they want achive. But if we would use TWD as "typical zombie universe" we can say that make or find the most safe base and stable source of food, electicity water, medicine etc is the main target.  I know- game must be fun. But what mean " be fun"? well i think ww1 simulator where you will just shot and reload artilery cannon for next 3 hour to let your team assult enemy position would be greate but i know most people prefere fast action.  But another hand - there is game like dwarf fortress where you can loose everyhing if one your dwarfs will cut in hand by accident. And about exploits - i think they make sometimes game immortal - there is a lot games that are still alive because exploit let speedruners end game faster. 

And honestly- exploits in manly SP games don't mean too much if this game don't have microtransations - you manage to get 100000 k of coins using exploit in M&B? Ok your choice do what you want. You one hit kill boss in prince of persia? Ok etc