PC Alpha 20 Dev Diary

[Jost Amman]

I mean sure it's a little exploit-ish, but the obvious fixes would be game breaking. Allow them to spawn on top of player blocks and there's no longer any protection for crafting bases and everyone is forced to build them underground or well outside of the spawn radius.

Weird, I thought normal spawns and BM spawn were handled separately.

If they are, though, it wouldn't be much of a problem to enable spawning on block players for BM horde zombies, wouldn't it?

 

[Neminsis]

Weird, I thought normal spawns and BM spawn were handled separately.

If they are, though, it wouldn't be much of a problem to enable spawning on block players for BM horde zombies, wouldn't it?

They are, the ai is even different now.

Sure, it would be easy to do, but it would only affect that small handful of players that paved a 100x100 area to see what would happen...and everyone else that had their crafting base within 50m of where they're standing when Zs start spawning or decided to build a castle out to the 41m range of a land claim block etc. and it wouldn't affect the guy that built the platform 51m in the air at all.

That fix would break the game for an incredible number of people just playing the game normally.

100x100 is 10,000 blocks and it's not even a 10th of my largest build in survival, and not even a drop compared to the billions of square meters of material available on an 8k map, but if I stacked it into a cube 22m on a side and stood on top of it during horde night and had it ringed with auto turrets I'd get the exact same results as I described with controlling the Z spawn locations, and you wouldn't even think twice about calling it an exploit. 

If I were to use only about 300 blocks and 9 electric fence lines to create a corridor to keep the Zs perpetually stunned while I shot them in the face would that be an exploit? What if I added auto turrets to increase my dps? Maybe a blade trap and a sledge turret? Same results with a whole lot less effort. No?

Obviously, what is and is not an exploit isn't going to be measured by how dominant a player is over the Zs or they'd never let you turn down the difficulty or block damage or turn blood moons off completely. It's going to be measured in the time it takes to achieve that dominance. I'd guess that TFP target is going to be around 60-70 hours playtime.

With the Z "forcefield" you can achieve that dominance on day 1. You can get the exact same effect as laying out 10k blocks but now it takes less than 100 and you can get by with less than 50. Literally, only 1 hour on default settings. See the difference?

 

[Jost Amman]

That fix would break the game for an incredible number of people just playing the game normally.

Why? If they do it right, no it won't.

You're making a lot of assumptions there, but if the devs decide to fix it they'll find a way, I'm sure.

 

[Hapidedurva]

I think this alpha is the worst in many years. There is a horrible lag, even on best pc-s. Turrets and vehicles falling through the world (still after 4-5 years). The graphics and lightning are really outdated in 2022. The zombies are few, and boring, the overal graphic design is lacking. There are few new stuff, but many performance issues.

Only thing i can praise is the level design, it is fantastic. T think this game really need to be gold now, and lets all just move on to 7 days to die 2.

 

[Jost Amman]

I think this alpha is the worst in many years. There is a horrible lag, even on best pc-s. Turrets and vehicles falling through the world (still after 4-5 years). The graphics and lightning are really outdated in 2022. The zombies are few, and boring, the overal graphic design is lacking. There are few new stuff, but many performance issues.

Only thing i can praise is the level design, it is fantastic. T think this game really need to be gold now, and lets all just move on to 7 days to die 2.

If the game is so horrible for you, why are you still here discussing it?

Why aren't you playing one of the thousands of other games that are available out there?

Seriously.

 

[TSBX]

 T think this game really need to be gold now, and lets all just move on to 7 days to die 2.

Hey, leave me out of this.

 

[Callum123456789]

I think this alpha is the worst in many years. There is a horrible lag, even on best pc-s. Turrets and vehicles falling through the world (still after 4-5 years). The graphics and lightning are really outdated in 2022. The zombies are few, and boring, the overal graphic design is lacking. There are few new stuff, but many performance issues.

Only thing i can praise is the level design, it is fantastic. T think this game really need to be gold now, and lets all just move on to 7 days to die 2.

all i have to say is this games in alpha

things change 

things get better

give it time and youll appreciate it for what the game is 

i mean you could always play some other game right if you dont like it right?

 

[Matt115]

If the game is so horrible for you, why are you still here discussing it?

Why aren't you playing one of the thousands of other games that are available out there?

Seriously.

Well honk kong '97 and  dessert bus are horrbile bad but people play in this so... XD

But seriously. 7dtd don't have any rival - it is only voxel game with realisic graphic - the forest, conan, ark have very limted "building". So i understand this guy - there is no another alternative. Well i wish there were game similiar to 7dtd but with medival setting but i'm afraid that only TFP would do something like this 

Fun fact: There's no video game out there with a vanilla non-scripted general-purpose bandit AI that seeks cover, surrounds, throws grenades, heals/retreats when damaged, communicates between each other, targets and follows the player through a Multiplayer voxel world in a believable manner.

Most advanced ones just move to the player and target him/her while following him/her with significant glitches, like Empyrion. There are also scripted ones , that have a bit of brain but within a very limited area. Some non-voxel games do achieve some of those features, like Rust, with scripted and area-limited NPC AI working in Multiplayer.

Well stalker have rly good ai. BTW in my opinion in zombie games humans are the worst ( in meaning : the most boring/ annoing ) enemies.  Cod, dying light, dead rising etc. 

I hope bandits will be very rare enemies

 

[Neminsis]

Why? If they do it right, no it won't.

You're making a lot of assumptions there, but if the devs decide to fix it they'll find a way, I'm sure.

That's the thing though I just got done telling you why they're not going to decide to do so, and it really didn't take many assumptions to come to that conclusion as there's plenty of evidence to support it. 

Maybe if I put it a different way...

Every player has the ability to "break" the game with debug and creative modes a few keystrokes away. Why hasn't this ultimate exploit been addressed by TFP?

Even without using debug mode the player is offered the ability to lower the difficulty, increase their own block damage while lowering it for the Zs, set the Zs movement speed, how many Zs can be alive at one time, the frequency of blood moons or even if they happen at all, the frequency of air drops, the amount of loot etc. These settings can make the game ridiculously easy, so why haven't TFP done something about them?

Obviously, there's more to it than whether or not it breaks the game or makes it too easy, right?

Maybe, just maybe it's more about encouraging players to play longer, in more different ways, than it is about policing every possible way that the Zs can be defeated?

Every "exploit" that they've ever addressed has been because it discouraged players from playing any other way. if they were smart.

What's smart about building a platform 51m in the air when you could just turn off the blood moon? 

What's smart about laying out 10k blocks when you can achieve the same thing with 300 and a few fence posts?

Those aren't exploits, they're edge case novelties.

 

[Jost Amman]

Those aren't exploits, they're edge case novelties.

Sorry, maybe I wasn't clear enough in my last reply.

It was about the "no spawn on player blocks" thing, not the 50 blocks pillars scenario...

 

[Neminsis]

Sorry, maybe I wasn't clear enough in my last reply.

It was about the "no spawn on player blocks" thing, not the 50 blocks pillars scenario...

Since the 50 block pilllar scenario was the original issue that you were calling a bug/exploit and a minor but flabbergasting issue that the devs might be interested in resolving and the "no spawn on player blocks" thing was offered for comparison to it, because it utilizes the same spawn radius mechanic, to point out how ridiculous it would be for those same devs to spend time and lines of code on addressing I naturally thought there were the same topic. 

@faatal : I think you guys might be interested in resolving this (minor) but flabbergasting issue!

(I linked a Steam discussion where the exploit/bug is explained)

 

[GoldsharkROU]

Happiness is never total in this game and especially because we all have different opinions on how to get there, in this last A20 I still need a story with more depth but hey, it has many good things, it still bothers the Zs hit me WITHOUT ANIMATION, it is VERY annoying to see those hits made in Flash! 

 

[Red Eagle LXIX]

So, I'm going to complain about farming but not in the usual way.

The A20 Farming changes are fine - Except for the randomly not growing crops which increases the difficulty.

I've got a 10x10 farm (so 100 plots).

About half the time all of them will grow just fine.

The rest of the time one or more random plots will just not grow.  It is not the same plots either, or the same number.

Example my last planting , just one single potato never made it out of seed stage.

However in my current planting 14 Hops never left seed stage.

It has been increasing the difficulty of trying to raise my seed supply.

Here you can see the layout and the 14 that never left seed.  I waited till harvest (this screenshot was while growing forgot to take another with the full-growns) and they never grew.  Seeds were planted 30 coffee, 20 hops, 20 mushroom, 20 pumpkin, 4 coffee, 2  hops, 2 mushroom, 2 pumpkin.  As can be seen 14 of the hops in the middle were not growing but plants both before and after did.  It will be a different plots though so it is not like the same plot fails each time.  In the prior run only the very first (left, back) crop failed to grow.

 

[Red Eagle LXIX]

It should be noted that the seeds that failed to grow were not all in order.  I always plant from the back/far side to front/close side.  So in that screenshot the first 30 planted coffee grew, then the 10 planted hops failed, then 6 planted hops grew, then 4 planted hops failed, then the remaining crops grew.

Another way to say that, the 10 hops that failed to grow in row 4 were planted before the 6 hops that grew in row 5.  The 4 hops that failed to grow in row 5 were planted after the 6 hops in row 5 that grew.  It wasn't a case of consecutive planted crop failure.

Also, how about a drone whistle to call your parked nearby drone? 

 

[Star69]

For as long as we’ve had farming, there has always been an issue with some plants not growing past seedlings but it used to be pretty uncommon and isolated and usually fixed by not planting in the same spot again. Your issue is pretty darn common and definitely a concern especially with the increased difficulty added to farming. Hopefully someone takes a look at some point.

 

[Callum123456789]

So, I'm going to complain about farming but not in the usual way.

The A20 Farming changes are fine - Except for the randomly not growing crops which increases the difficulty.

I've got a 10x10 farm (so 100 plots).

About half the time all of them will grow just fine.

The rest of the time one or more random plots will just not grow.  It is not the same plots either, or the same number.

Example my last planting , just one single potato never made it out of seed stage.

However in my current planting 14 Hops never left seed stage.

It has been increasing the difficulty of trying to raise my seed supply.

Here you can see the layout and the 14 that never left seed.  I waited till harvest (this screenshot was while growing forgot to take another with the full-growns) and they never grew.  Seeds were planted 30 coffee, 20 hops, 20 mushroom, 20 pumpkin, 4 coffee, 2  hops, 2 mushroom, 2 pumpkin.  As can be seen 14 of the hops in the middle were not growing but plants both before and after did.  It will be a different plots though so it is not like the same plot fails each time.  In the prior run only the very first (left, back) crop failed to grow.

damn thats an odd occurance i havent ever had this issue and i have a 500 plot farm

 

[Beelzebubs Ghost]

I think this alpha is the worst in many years. There is a horrible lag, even on best pc-s. Turrets and vehicles falling through the world (still after 4-5 years). The graphics and lightning are really outdated in 2022. The zombies are few, and boring, the overal graphic design is lacking. There are few new stuff, but many performance issues.

Only thing i can praise is the level design, it is fantastic. T think this game really need to be gold now, and lets all just move on to 7 days to die 2.

Your point about zombie sameness is salient.

I drove through the snow biome just the other day playing with friends and one thing that stood out as same, same, same. The woodcutter.

Same ridiculous looking lumberjack again, and again, and again. Same mountain lion again and again. It really is boring and sort of lies at odds with the devs efforts to add new stuff; which granted, they have, but that repetition with the same zombie model is absurd.

Simply adding a little colour variation would work wonders, and perhaps size variation.

The previous lumberjack look like a towering menace and was genuinely intimdating, but this wretched little nothing of a model is an embarrassment.

Also the snow biome terrain should have an addition of some blending colour for these mountain lions. Them being beige prancing about in the snow means you can spot then a mile off. It's only the incidental tree density that hides them, unlike the snake which; whilst being pathetic, blends nicely with rocks and even grassy terrain.

More animals need to be added really, the idea of hearing birds everywhere and every day but never ever seeing one is something else that winds me up. This would really liven up the world and add more atmosphere and realism to the real world aspect of the game, zombies aside.

Maybe anti-venom could be a thing also, for snake bites.

I think other weapons should be added too, not like the Conan battle axe we have and bizzare drones that fly eternally and follow the player - but simple things like the ability to wallop zombies with lengths of pipe, and bricks. Just crude weapons, we already have rocks in the game and short iron pipes why not enable them as rudimentary weapons?

Mods exist yes, and I know you can knock ten bells out of the living dead with banjos and other nonsense, but I think a game where survival is key, themed like 7 days, the game has thusfar short changed itself in a way by not giving us the ability to go crazy with the aforementioned pipes and stones (which would break bones )

(Long post I know, but while I'm on the topic of weapons - the Mugiwara reach on the zombies is another thing that needs attention. I had my ankles taken off by one of those filthy crawlers, that hit me yet I wasnt able to hit it despite wielding not only my arms length, but the full extension of the baseball bat. Wtf? )

 

[Tmodloader]

This alpha is ok. There is a lot going for the game but it really needs some sort of push. The story and bandits should help, and there should probably be some additional endgame content or reset mechanic for gold. The fact that zombies scale to gamestage mostly makes it so that a good player can rush out and clear tier 5s by week 2 or 3 at the latest. Once you do all of those, there isn't much more to do.

Maybe lootstage could scale like it does now and zombie scaling could be time based? It doesn't solve the problem but it would give you incentive to see how far you can go and survive without encouraging afk.

 

[Jost Amman]

Since the 50 block pilllar scenario was the original issue that you were calling a bug/exploit and a minor but flabbergasting issue that the devs might be interested in resolving and the "no spawn on player blocks" thing was offered for comparison to it, because it utilizes the same spawn radius mechanic, to point out how ridiculous it would be for those same devs to spend time and lines of code on addressing I naturally thought there were the same topic. 

Maybe you didn't understand. Allowing BM zombies to spawn on player blocks would also fix the first problem.

Basically, the BM horde would spawn on top of the platform.

 

[Tmodloader]

Maybe you didn't understand. Allowing BM zombies to spawn on player blocks would also fix the first problem.

Basically, the BM horde would spawn on top of the platform.

Wish I thought of this, next time I'll make bedroll zones tiny to encourage me to build my own base. I normally just hijack POIs.

Fun fact: There's no video game out there with a vanilla non-scripted general-purpose bandit AI that seeks cover, surrounds, throws grenades, heals/retreats when damaged, communicates between each other, targets and follows the player through a Multiplayer voxel world in a believable manner.

Most advanced ones just move to the player and target him/her while following him/her with significant glitches, like Empyrion. There are also scripted ones , that have a bit of brain but within a very limited area. Some non-voxel games do achieve some of those features, like Rust, with scripted and area-limited NPC AI working in Multiplayer.

Yes this is why I worry on the bandits. In a voxel game like this, it would be a feat of achievement to programming to get the ai done. Not that I doubt it could happen but with the desire to release 1.0 eventually, it may be extremely difficult to get bandits working without just using similar ai to zombies.