PC Alpha 20 Dev Diary

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1. What the hell is up with all the zeds making 5 block jumps? Feral or not, the only zed that was supposed to be able to jump that far was the spider. We are routinely seeing Arlenes and Nurses making 5 block jumps both in our game an in several streamers games.

2. Suggestion: Completing Needle & Thread books series really should give you the ability to craft sewing kits.

3. Suggestion: Completing a weapon's book series gives you the ability to craft that weapon's parts

 
I believe that a key point in the game would be its optimization. Few people manage to maintain good fps in the game, especially in cities and even more within buildings. Will we have any optimizations during the Alphas? And why does the game have so much trouble keeping up with a good frame rate?

 
Laz Man said:
Restore Power quests as well can be quite a bit away.  It would be nice if the distance a POI is a variable in the duke or xp reward.

This might be a nice incentive for players to take the farther quest since it essentially would require more of their time to do.
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Yeah I noticed that with the Restore Power quests. There seems to be some sort of exclusion happening with the quests too. When I got to the Tier 5s (this is after completing them with a different trader) I noticed as I started completing POIs the list started reducing, so even if I went into DM and reset the quests it only gave a couple of quest options. Think I'm left with 2 now after T5 completion the second time, though I didn't get the tier reward for whatever reason.

So I don't know if some of that is just down to me already running through all 5 tiers with another trader. I hope not as my plan is on my current playthrough is to complete T1 to T5 with different traders in each biome

 
the only complaint i have with the block upgrade path is we should still have the rebar frames to build with, it's very annoying to accidentally place a concrete shape where you don't want it. the rebar frames made it alot easier to build and correct mistakes, besides concrete has rebar it it in real life. you can leave out the wet concrete and just upgrade it to dried concrete. It also to me felt alot more satisfying to build with the rebar frames and upgrade them rather than just laying down concrete blocks, just laying down the blocks just kinda feels like im in creative mode. Or at least give us a timer or something to be able to pick up placed blocks

 
Irushian said:
Building is perfect the way it currently is. In previous alphas you had to remember which material had the shape that you wanted when wanting to build something and it was frustrating and they have removed that annoyance.

If you do not want concrete ladders then don't build concrete ladders. Please don't impose your views on the rest of us. I do not want to have to go back to having to remember what materials support what blocks when a material is just basically a health value and not much more.
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The only reason I got on this subject of building is because I was backing up a fellow player on their thoughts of building. This is not a view specific to me other's feel the same I do not know how many but I know I'm not alone.

 
mstdv inc said:
I am interested in the logic of people who classify certain blocks as special.
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I'll give my experience, but its not much. I've only experienced this issue with a few blocks:

Using "boards over windows" as the example:

- For building/designing a POI the current system is amazing. I've seen some uses of blocks where just the material type or placement make it "unique and neat and pop".  like using "boards nailed over windows" be on the floor or used for something other than nailing over windows. for this, having "cobblestone boards" is great.

- For in game building, it feels a little weird. because you add  "wood boards to go over the windows" and it looks and feels great. When you upgrade they go to cobblestone. That looks weird.  like "I nailed up a random 4 boards, all askew and made of .....coobblestone?, over this window?"  It felt and looked much more "real" when they upgraded to "stronger wood, then "metal".

Using a "door" as an example:

- The game allows crafting a simple wooden door ( can open and close, lock it).  when upgraded, it gets "reinforced" with wood, then metal over the wood, then finally going up to metal.  It feels natural and looks great because its what you would likely do  if trying to reinforce a door.  Imagine now that door upgrade path was wood -> cobblestone -> whatever.  A cobblestone door?  umm, no.  it would look weird and feel even weirder, because no one makes cobblestone doors.  Same with hatches. wood -> reinforced -> metal is a natural progression.

Generally arguing for more block types for certain things like the above:

- Cobblestone may be a natural upgrade (when playing the game) from wood for "structural" things, but for certain "decor" or delicate blocks it looks and feels unnatural.  This is why stairs (ONLY with thin railings) and catwalks (also thin railings) are weird. it sticks out too much as a "WTF", visually.

Summary:

I think for any block that is "weird" because of the new upgrade path, they need separate, unique blocks for them. There aren't a lot, and its only for player upgrading in game and not POI building.  Almost all of the examples I can think of involve thin railings or "haphazard" things like wood planks over windows. For all of these cases I would feel wither going directly to metal (skip cobble as upgrade path) or have a separate "metal scrap reinforced" version, which the game already uses and looks/feels good, if a "standard x number of steps is what we're going for when upgrading" is needed.

Also: why we're here... I personally liked the "smaller blocks have less HP" change that was pulled.  I felt it was "more real for building".  sure, it may have been unbalanced in some ways but if you want a "nice base" you need to put down a solid foundation/defense.  Using little blocks for decor and/or "cheesing" things to protect openings... well, those blocks need less hit points unless they are upgraded a lot.  I bring this up because the look/feel of this change is similar to the "no cobblestone for certain blocks idea": its more realistic gameplay, it looks more "real/normal" and its nice when some blocks are "special" or are not '1000 HP thin rails' or '1000 HP random cobblestone boards hastily nailed over a window". I made up the HP numbers just to make an example.  I'd much rather have 1000 HP metal covered boards, or "1000 HP thin metal railings" even if its a harder upgrade path to do (in game)

 
Okay, I was not going to do this, but I am starting to use the new OP blocks, and I just want an idea on if they are getting nerfed or not, heh. 

It is not really something that needs to be nerfed, but it lets me make something similar to my fence base for 3 blocks, instead of 36 blocks, lel. 




I show an example of what you can make at the point marked in this video. 

Like I said, it does not really need to be changed, but you can make really strong fences that cover a huge area for very cheap. 

I would not nerf it any more than making it 2 or 3 times more costly... but not nerfing it is fine as well. 

I am just curious if you Devs are okay with this, before I start using it all the time, and get used to having it. 

 
Also wanted to add my A20 feedback:

- First time the cities feel like actual cities. Amazing atmosphere

- Love the minor POIs and alleys. Makes the cities more believable and they are very useful in early game

- All new POIs are well designed and fun to go through, fantastic work. My favorite is the cocaine king mansion, so great

- RWG is a zillon times better now. Hoping for more sliders in the future though

- Loving the new building system!

- I didn‘t shed a tear for the blunderbuss, pipe weapons rock. Would love to see a bit more balancing though (pipe machine gun too strong, pipe shotgun too weak, it could use a second round before reloading)

- Very cool that zombies can now duck / go through openings of one block, but the mechanic still seems rough, needs some fixes

- Had no performance issues in A18 or A19, but moderate performance issues in A20 when faced with a larger group of zombies (no change in settings)

- I often see zombies appear out of thin air in POIs, guess they are loading too late, have not seen that in earlier versions

- Stealth needs love …

- Wilderness seems empty right now, I hope it also gets some love in future versions

- Traders are OP, but if I‘m not mistaken, TFP are already working on that. I can highly recommend a "no trader run" for A20, very enjoyable. But you might have to tweak the loot.xml for rare stuff

- It’s obvious that a huge amount of work and creativity went into A20. I was a bit worried that TFP are slowing down in developing 7d2d, but A20 speaks for itself. Huge step in the right direction

 
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5 hours ago, pregnable said:

Okay, I was not going to do this, but I am starting to use the new OP blocks, and I just want an idea on if they are getting nerfed or not, heh. 

It is not really something that needs to be nerfed, but it lets me make something similar to my fence base for 3 blocks, instead of 36 blocks, lel. 

Click to expand...


Depends on what the AI does.  If they can attack those blocks, there is still the trade off of losing an entire wall vs a 1 voxel space of block.  So although you can cover a larger area, you are also somewhat more vulnerable.

 
doughphunghus said:
I'll give my experience, but its not much. I've only experienced this issue with a few blocks:

Using "boards over windows" as the example:

- For building/designing a POI the current system is amazing. I've seen some uses of blocks where just the material type or placement make it "unique and neat and pop".  like using "boards nailed over windows" be on the floor or used for something other than nailing over windows. for this, having "cobblestone boards" is great.

- For in game building, it feels a little weird. because you add  "wood boards to go over the windows" and it looks and feels great. When you upgrade they go to cobblestone. That looks weird.  like "I nailed up a random 4 boards, all askew and made of .....coobblestone?, over this window?"  It felt and looked much more "real" when they upgraded to "stronger wood, then "metal".

Using a "door" as an example:

- The game allows crafting a simple wooden door ( can open and close, lock it).  when upgraded, it gets "reinforced" with wood, then metal over the wood, then finally going up to metal.  It feels natural and looks great because its what you would likely do  if trying to reinforce a door.  Imagine now that door upgrade path was wood -> cobblestone -> whatever.  A cobblestone door?  umm, no.  it would look weird and feel even weirder, because no one makes cobblestone doors.  Same with hatches. wood -> reinforced -> metal is a natural progression.

Generally arguing for more block types for certain things like the above:

- Cobblestone may be a natural upgrade (when playing the game) from wood for "structural" things, but for certain "decor" or delicate blocks it looks and feels unnatural.  This is why stairs (ONLY with thin railings) and catwalks (also thin railings) are weird. it sticks out too much as a "WTF", visually.

Summary:

I think for any block that is "weird" because of the new upgrade path, they need separate, unique blocks for them. There aren't a lot, and its only for player upgrading in game and not POI building.  Almost all of the examples I can think of involve thin railings or "haphazard" things like wood planks over windows. For all of these cases I would feel wither going directly to metal (skip cobble as upgrade path) or have a separate "metal scrap reinforced" version, which the game already uses and looks/feels good, if a "standard x number of steps is what we're going for when upgrading" is needed.

Also: why we're here... I personally liked the "smaller blocks have less HP" change that was pulled.  I felt it was "more real for building".  sure, it may have been unbalanced in some ways but if you want a "nice base" you need to put down a solid foundation/defense.  Using little blocks for decor and/or "cheesing" things to protect openings... well, those blocks need less hit points unless they are upgraded a lot.  I bring this up because the look/feel of this change is similar to the "no cobblestone for certain blocks idea": its more realistic gameplay, it looks more "real/normal" and its nice when some blocks are "special" or are not '1000 HP thin rails' or '1000 HP random cobblestone boards hastily nailed over a window". I made up the HP numbers just to make an example.  I'd much rather have 1000 HP metal covered boards, or "1000 HP thin metal railings" even if its a harder upgrade path to do (in game)
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I agree entirely :D

Sadly I couldn't react with a like because my reaction thing is bugged it says "There was a problem with adding this reaction" or something

 
faatal said:
It was not a large amount of work. I was the only one who worked on it and I probably just spent a few days on it. I work on a lot of different stuff, so it gets hazy over the years. Digging is also not just for horde nights. It is useful to the AI in POIs when you get below them and down would be the best path.

We don't spawn hordes so they can do nothing. The intent is for them to reasonably try to get to you and you to reasonably try to defend against it. If you don't want to interact with hordes, then turn them off, which is why the setting is there.
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First I didn't say large amount of work, I said large amount of effort, if you find it not to be so much then so be it.

And second why the fallacious reasoning?

What's wrong with you and others on here with this black and white thinking? Instead of having the option to disable it, a choice, one is forced into either putting up with it, or on the odd occasion (or not) in wishing to hide out while preparing, one must totally disable the horde?

Are you just trying to say you don't want to/ cannot/ won't put the work in to make it an option?

I'd have more respect for you if you said that, than appealing to either/or thinking. And since you addressed this point (which I am grateful to see) would you at least consider giving us the option to disable this?

Or at very least let the modders be able to do something with it, please?

 
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It's not option material because for zombies to be any threat at all they need to be capable of getting to the player - both out in the wild and in POI.

Digging down 3 blocks and putting a frame above your head can not provide 100% safety. That only makes the game look bad.

If you do not want any threat in the game then turn off enemies. That's exactly what the option is for.

 
Laz Man said:
Depends on what the AI does.  If they can attack those blocks, there is still the trade off of losing an entire wall vs a 1 voxel space of block.  So although you can cover a larger area, you are also somewhat more vulnerable.
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That is why I could see them maybe not nerfing and leaving it... but covering a larger area can only really be seen as a plus, since you can just treat it as 1 block and build much larger for cheaper. 

The other thing is that I can use it to basically make my fence base, for only 3 blocks. 

The idea behind it is that most zombies can not jump 1.5 blocks without climbing another zombie, so you can usually safely stand at 1.5 and just melee a zombie. 

If a second or more zombies show up, then you jump up on one of the side blocks, which is then another 1.5. 

So with a design like that you can just keep moving and splitting up the zombies and fighting them 1 or 2 at a time. 

I do not really care if they nerf them or not... I was just wanted to find out before I start using them all the time, and get used to it being in the game. 

 
Gazz said:
It's not option material because for zombies to be any threat at all they need to be capable of getting to the player - both out in the wild and in POI.

Digging down 3 blocks and putting a frame above your head can not provide 100% safety. That only makes the game look bad.

If you do not want any threat in the game then turn off enemies. That's exactly what the option is for.
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What he's asking for is the OPTION it doesn't have to meta . It's just a way to play the game just how there's the option turn off enemies. 

Take a page out of Project Zomboid's handbook more player choice. 

 
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