PC Alpha 20 Dev Diary

[Quantum Blue]

There has been more than enough simplification over the years. They are new players, things are supposed to be confusing. Hell, we already have glowing symbols floating over rocks and nests. Why not just have the game autocraft what it thinks you need at that time as soon as you have the resources in your inventory. Why even have different resources? Just have everything scrap to "scrap material" and you can craft everything from frames to vehicles with this same resource. The game already progresses too fast as it is. If you don't even have to wait for things to smelt anymore, it just gets that much faster. I do not think that is a good thing.

(bdubyah  - just using your text as an intro.  I don't disagree.)

How about TFP reduce game to 6 or 7 cube based shapes of 6 or 7 colors.  (like a "T" or "l", etc.) that magically fall from the sky and you have to push them together to create congruous walls that block you from zombie waves?  If you leave gaps it just makes it easier for Z's to get to you.  If you match a certain # of colors, you get special aids that help (like oil to move blocks faster/easier).  And every 7 days they fall faster.  Oh, wait...

Smelter/forge/yadda: Roland used a word a couple years back that I have never forgotten: "abstraction".  7D2D, seems to me like a kind of post-apocalyptic simulator with lots of little puzzles to solve.  Is it really difficult to imagine some kind of tool (forge/smelter) that's used to create things to make some thing to make moving or fighting or whatever better/easier?  I'll grant you using a microwave to create a gyrocopter might be stretching it, but what they have in place seems imaginatively reasonable. 

And, btw, TFP, while it's been a couple years, I just wanna say I am loving A20. RWG, districts (etc.) and new POI's are freaking incredible.  (Not perfect - but wow.)

 

[Burrfly]

It would also probably be good to take the smelting process out of the game entirely, to eliminate confusion for new players. In Darkness Falls you craft forge-related recipes straight out like recipes from a workbench, and I honestly believe vanilla should implement a similar feature. Instead of putting the items in, you simply select what you want to craft and, if you have the appropriate materials, you punch in the number and click "craft".

What?!?! Nooooooooo... please keep it in. And btw, the reason for you saying this is probably not "to eliminate confusion for new players"... Not everything has to become  'easier' or faster, I think that thought sucks. Having to discover how things work as a new player with a little confusion is a good thing (well, personally I didn't understand how a forge worked in the very beginning but that would make things interesting to discover HOW they then would work, adding mysterious things which is very fun if you then discover it). 

Not everything has to be easy to understand in the beginning, because it would be boring if you would understand everything when you first boot up the game. When I just discovered Minecraft like 6 years ago I didn't even know how to craft a pickaxe. But that doesn't mean it made me quit the game, it made me especially more excited to play the game to want to discover how it worked  

There has been more than enough simplification over the years. They are new players, things are supposed to be confusing. Hell, we already have glowing symbols floating over rocks and nests. Why not just have the game autocraft what it thinks you need at that time as soon as you have the resources in your inventory. Why even have different resources? Just have everything scrap to "scrap material" and you can craft everything from frames to vehicles with this same resource. The game already progresses too fast as it is. If you don't even have to wait for things to smelt anymore, it just gets that much faster. I do not think that is a good thing.

Omg exactly!!! Thank you

 

[POCKET951]

damn thats odd im on day 44 and i think ive got 35 or something including making 3 chem stations

What? What Is your secret? With how little acid I find, the Greasemonkey perk feels so useless and wasteful because I'm not even finding enough of a key resource to craft with it. Why invest in something I will never have the resources to craft? 

In a19 you'd find enough acid to actually craft stuff.

 In alpha 20 atm anything that requires acid to craft  is like playing in a sandbox with no tools. You can't really do anything 

 

[Xtrakicking]

It would also probably be good to take the smelting process out of the game entirely, to eliminate confusion for new players. In Darkness Falls you craft forge-related recipes straight out like recipes from a workbench, and I honestly believe vanilla should implement a similar feature. Instead of putting the items in, you simply select what you want to craft and, if you have the appropriate materials, you punch in the number and click "craft".

I think some things shouldn't be streamlined just for the sake of new players. If materials aren't first smelted, then there's no dilemma of turning the forge on or not at night in case a screamer may come. In fact, having a forge if there's no smelting process feels a bit pointless, just let the players craft it in their backpack like back in the days then.

 

[FranticDan]

 Has anyone had any luck with acid? Also what type of medical containers yield acid when wrenched?

The white medical cabinets, just axe them after reading the book for a 50% chance

 

[MuffinMan]

My 3900 takes about .5 to 1 seconds. Worse case maybe 2 seconds. Don't know how you manage that long with that CPU. Never seen an hourglass while it happened. 3 other devs just told be the same thing. Not that long and never an hourglass.

Are you using any mods?

Just my own, basic XML edits. When your rig takes 2 seconds does that feel good to you? Would more regular calls of that "unload unused resources" be better maybe? I don't know but it doesn't seem good to me how it is performing right now. The game is otherwise smooth and over 100fps in most cases and then you push E and get lagged out. Or talk to a shop owner and get lagged out.

I've noticed in other Unity games due to my 64GB ram it has higher RAM usage than most people. Do you have 64GB of RAM?

I'll also add that I did add 4 other traders to the same trader just so I have some variety at the one trader I typically visit (f6 -> static spawn). Maybe that is causing an issue not sure. My base is somewhat close to them. Also most of the hitches are like .5 to 1 second like you mention. It is just every 30-60 minutes I get one of the long ones like the game is about to crash.

 

[BFT2020]

There has been more than enough simplification over the years. They are new players, things are supposed to be confusing. Hell, we already have glowing symbols floating over rocks and nests. 

I know right?  I bet there are probably some complaints about why there are no glowing symbols over the grass on the very first survivor mission  

 

[POCKET951]

The white medical cabinets, just axe them after reading the book for a 50% chance

There's has to be more than one solution to acid than just having the book. Take hunger for example. Many ways to solve it. Hunting,cooking, questing.

In a19 there were a handful of reliable ways to get acid.

In a20 you need 1 book(rng) and exact knowledge of what to hit. And wrenching medical cabinets for acid is just unintutivve.

Loot got tweaked and rebalanced. And I hope that acid being super rare  is just an unintentional consequence of all the changes and that it is something worth looking into and adjusting  before stable.  It takes acid to make chem benches for example, so shouldn't wrenching destroyed benches atleast yield acid? Or have a chance to have acid on then

Could acid also be a 50% chance thing at the trader like antibiotics except with a bit more variance in quantity?

A20 just lacks a variety of concrete solutions for acid atm compared to a19. 

It's also something you can't craft  or grow and farm.

Also acid seemed to be in a pretty good spot in A19, so it's odd that a nerf to its drop rate has never been mentioned or conveyed, and never has anyone from TFP said acid is too common or OP. So I suspect that this isn't intended unless a Dev says so.

One thing to also note is that the new loot system is a work in progress.i feel  TFP have got 95% of the new system nailed down pretty well. There however seems to be a few hits and misses that need observation,data and feedback so that it can be fine tuned.

Acid and beakers seem much more rare. 

In general  equipment for forges and campfires is far more rare.

Ammo and first aid bandaids/first aid kits are more common now than in A19.

I am sure the new loot system will get there by A20 stable though.

 

[falloutcloud]

What? What Is your secret? With how little acid I find, the Greasemonkey perk feels so useless and wasteful because I'm not even finding enough of a key resource to craft with it. Why invest in something I will never have the resources to craft? 

I have found 2 acid by day 20. I have not used either in crafting. I bought my chem station from the trader and I took the vehicle bundle when I had progressed to the next quest tier. I have also looted 1 tire. There are other options if you're willing to use them.

I have not put a single point into Intelligence yet

 

[POCKET951]

I have found 2 acid by day 20. I have not used either in crafting. I bought my chem station from the trader and I took the vehicle bundle when I had progressed to the next quest tier. I have also looted 1 tire. There are other options if you're willing to use them.

I have not put a single point into Intelligence yet

Maybe true. The trader was always there though in A19 and is still a solution in A20. But the trader is feeling alot more like an ONLY solution and not an option. Acid at its current scarcity makes the trader even more OP because you can just circumvent the problem with tokens and grinding.

also in A19 I would never ever buy vehicles from the trader because it was far cheaper and more convenient to make your own. 

A20 is the exact opposite. if I want chem benches or vehicles or anything that requires acid to build, I am ONLY getting it from the trader because it is a far superior source compared to trying to scavenge the lands of A20

There needs to be a middle ground where both methods are just as acceptable/viable, or even in a game with asymmetric balance, they should both be in an acceptable range of balance. The scales in A20 feel far too tipped in one direction atm

 

[BFT2020]

If that change were incorported, .44 ammo would have to drop in quantities more like the other ammo types. It doesn't now because there is no early .44 gun in the game.

Thank you, I forgot to change the loot table in my modlet and your post reminded me.

 

[FranticDan]

Pump shotgun reload animation, this has always bothered me. I'd like to see a proper reload animation for the pump shotgun, each shell missing extends the reload time by adding more shells being put into the shotgun during the animation. Of course the shells need to be added twice as fast than the current speed.

I personally prefer the pump over the auto, and making this change would both nerf the pump a little AND add to the immersion.

Also, being able to cancel the reload animation with RMB, so for example, if you wait for 3 shells to load and then cancel, you'll have 3 more shells loaded than before you started reloading.

Thoughts?

 

[elektrohund]

Pump shotgun reload animation, this has always bothered me. I'd like to see a proper reload animation for the pump shotgun, each shell missing extends the reload time by adding more shells being put into the shotgun during the animation. Of course the shells need to be added twice as fast than the current speed.

I personally prefer the pump over the auto, and making this change would both nerf the pump a little AND add to the immersion.

Also, being able to cancel the reload animation with RMB, so for example, if you wait for 3 shells to load and then cancel, you'll have 3 more shells loaded than before you started reloading.

Thoughts?

I would love to see that. However, the fact that they didn't decide to do this with the new weapon models tells me it would most likely require a lot of work to overhaul the reload system. Having the pump- and lever actions reload "shot by shot" is the norm in shooters so I can't imagine TFP not having at least considered it. 

 

[retrogamingdev]

Just checking in, loving A20 so far. I saw a big performance jump when I disabled Dynamic Mesh all together. Until then, it was really bumming me out how bad the game was running. My CPU is older (AMD FX-6300), I suspect that is why it was hurting me so bad. 

And since I am coming in after a full line of complaints and suggestions, I have a couple small ones. Does anyone find it weird that you walk around with one hand in view when you aren't carrying anything? Like imagine a regular person walking around with one hand up? And on the same note, could you add a little movement to whatever you are holding? It feels very stiff, like if I was walking with an axe up, it would be swaying a little bit. 

 

[Raheal]

So... what is everyone's thoughts on the super scarcity of acid? I'm on day 36 and I've only found 6 acid so far.5 of it went to a Chem bench and I have hardly seen any. Has anyone had any luck with acid? Also what type of medical containers yield acid when wrenched?

Would like a photo if possible

As is Acid seems far rarer than antibiotics maybe acid should be offered as a potential quest reward?

I would agree that Acid is far more scarce for me than any other resource I've looked for. I had chemistry station unlocked for crafting around day 5, but had to wait at least 10 more days to craft it because I only had found 3 acid up to that point.

On a semi-related note: I was very happy to have received a chemistry station as a completed tier quest reward, but my inventory was full and when I accepted the reward it dropped behind the trader desk and I couldn't get to it, sigh.

 

[gpcstargate]

May I say Thank You ... TFP 

May you have a Wonderful Holiday  and A Great New Year 

the Old Gamer ... 

 

[Callum123456789]

What? What Is your secret? With how little acid I find, the Greasemonkey perk feels so useless and wasteful because I'm not even finding enough of a key resource to craft with it. Why invest in something I will never have the resources to craft? 

In a19 you'd find enough acid to actually craft stuff.

 In alpha 20 atm anything that requires acid to craft  is like playing in a sandbox with no tools. You can't really do anything 

oh well this is my secret then lol basically i have the wasteland treasures book where you can harvest acid from cars and medical equipment sometimes and well i do a lot of questing and sometimes its at the hospital so thats where at least half my acid has come from then i have bought it and found the others mostly in construction site boxes

 

[Doomofman]

I want to see if this is intended behaviour or a bug.

When you complete a tier of quests, do you get another 'tier completion' reward if you do another 7 of the same tier quest? 

So for example, you unlock Tier 4 quests, do 7 to unlock Tier 5, but you stay on Tier 4, would you get another reward after 7 more Tier 4 quests?

 

[canadianbluebeer]

When I finished the T3 quests, the bonus options before getting the go to next trader,  first reward was a chemstation. 

I already had 1, looted 1 more beaker, bought 1, then got a free station. nice.

Now the traders are showing acid for sale.   

Day 19 trader run (90 min days btw), and Trader Jen had the crucible schematic! 

That's all the stations/addons complete.

(now just need the schematics for steel armor, M60, and steel tools)

Seems they offered a bit more as each tier was unlocked.

Oh, the pilots musta been drinkin again, 1 airdrop (day 13) was 300m out into the edge of world water.

(did the DM godmode to fetch that, as couldn't tell if that was still radiation or not.)

Acid is scarcer yes, but RNG is still RNG.

Finally tested the twitch integration too.

Votes really could do with a timer, as back to back votes... hmm.

Bigheads are hilarious, and the Silly Sounds... heh.  Bang.

(if the metal on metal sound isn't changed, I'll find a way to take the silly sound and use it.

Better to listen to a chew toy squeak than the current one)

 

[dcsobral]

So... what is everyone's thoughts on the super scarcity of acid? I'm on day 36 and I've only found 6 acid so far.5 of it went to a Chem bench and I have hardly seen any. Has anyone had any luck with acid? Also what type of medical containers yield acid when wrenched?

Would like a photo if possible

As is Acid seems far rarer than antibiotics maybe acid should be offered as a potential quest reward?

I have an abundance of acid. That's due to the following factors:

1. I bought it at every opportunity on my traders;

2. I also bought wheels at every opportunity, in addition to the wheels I looted;

3. I picked the chemistry station as a tier completion reward (I didn't craft it before because I couldn't find a beaker -- and I still haven't found one);

4. I finally got the acid book (the last one I needed, iirc).

There is just one medical container that can be harvested for acid, which is the first aid one. It's a white box with windowed doors, and can be lootable or empty. I believe you can get acid from both versions. It is not wrenchable, so just break it with an axe. The acid book also let you harvest acid from cars, which is a good source. The barrels that give acid are the green ones, iirc. The ones on that POI everyone seems to have died at lately, the house with a cemetery underneath right before the loot room.

But after you have your vehicles and chem station there isn't a lot more you can do with acid. The only recurring resources that use it as Learning Elixir, Moonshine, Recog and Sham, none of which seems worth spending acid on.