PC Alpha 20 Dev Diary

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overgoat said:
Confirmed it works just fine in a newly created game.   Must be an issue with updated experimental on our server.  Will hold off doing a full restart/fresh build until the next experimental drops and test again then.  
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Could also be that a newly crafted or purchased sledge will be fine and it is only existing sledges that are borked.

 
Hey all! Been a while. I got a question: Now that A20E is out, how are the traders doing? I know there were some changes to them from A19 and i was wondering what the scale of them was.

 
Hello @faatal. I have a couple of questions about optimization A 20 (although these questions arose earlier).
1. I noticed an interesting way of optimization - on remote objects, on LOD models, the number of framerate for animation decreases. Do you think it can help the game if distant trees, zombies and other objects move "skipping" frames?
2. If I turn off the "brain" of a zombie, and then turn on the display of the perception of noise and light in a sleeping zombie, I will see that the zombies track the player's position up to 5 digits after the dot (for example, 64.74735). Moreover, when the player stops (visually it looks like this), he will still continue to move in place, but sooo slowly (because the 5 digits after the dot will continue to change). Does such accuracy of player tracking somehow affect the workload of the system (probably the processor?).
Thank you for your work.

 
Khalagar said:
I don't think it's that unreasonable that you would need to have something a bit less cheesy than literally 20 cobble to stop an entire horde all night, especially with the traders now giving you five hundred free cobblestone / cement blocks that you can instantly place down without any material cost investment at all. Besides that, I thought you guys were arguing that the reason people were upset wasn't because of melee cheese bases? That pole he was using was nothing to do with aesthetics and purely to do with melee cheese lol
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Melee cheese? It is supposed to stop zombies while still allowing one to melee them, particularly spiders and dogs. The shape seems entirely appropriate for it, so what is the cheese? Cheese is dogs and spiders attacking _through_ a hatch and hitting you, without you being able to hit them back.

Cheese is when zombies cannot reach you. That base brings zombies directly to you. It needs to be repaired or the zombies will break through. It is the opposite of cheese. And so is every base that is affected by this change. This change only affects bases where zombies where zombies can path to you. Actual cheese bases rely on having the zombies never hit a single block.

Khalagar said:
You still can build OP AF cheese bases if you want anyway, the one Kage shown doesn't even look efficient. All you have to do is build a couple of stairs with junk sledges where the zombies take forever to jump up and get yeeted, and have an area where you can throw explosives at the zombies. His base would have held out 100% okay if he'd had a one or two block stair case leading to the tunnel entrance where they had to jump to land on the block the sledge targetted, before jumping one last time to enter his tunnel. The cobble half blocks would have held out fine against the few zombies that managed to make it past the sledge.
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Kage's base doesn't look efficient because it's not an OP AF cheese base. It's funny that you first dismiss his base as cheese, then you say it's not efficient and explains how he can cheese it. 

 
dcsobral said:
Melee cheese? It is supposed to stop zombies while still allowing one to melee them, particularly spiders and dogs. The shape seems entirely appropriate for it, so what is the cheese? Cheese is dogs and spiders attacking _through_ a hatch and hitting you, without you being able to hit them back.

Cheese is when zombies cannot reach you. That base brings zombies directly to you. It needs to be repaired or the zombies will break through. It is the opposite of cheese. And so is every base that is affected by this change. This change only affects bases where zombies where zombies can path to you. Actual cheese bases rely on having the zombies never hit a single block.

Kage's base doesn't look efficient because it's not an OP AF cheese base. It's funny that you first dismiss his base as cheese, then you say it's not efficient and explains how he can cheese it. 
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It had to be said and it was said.

I hope that never again a direct confrontation melee base design will be called cheesy

 
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IMO, people only called melee basses cheesy because the zombie AI doesn't perform well. If the AI were upgraded so that they would actually attack the structure instead of running in place or swinging and missing everything.

Ultimately, the solution to cheese bases will have to involve AI/pathing/attack enhancements (no this doesn't necessarily mean making zombies "smart").

 
Ok, but if we accept this "definition" every base is a cheesy base.

I prefer to use the words by their exact definition. A cheesy base must use an exploit Or bug in the game to be called that way.

Every structure that use the tools that the game itself gives you is a legit option. A corridor, a pit, a solid block structure of zillions of layers, all of then are legit and is the player who must choose what he enjoy more.

Anyway I'm with you, the AI in horde night need to be refined. I read a lot of  threads about it with multiple solutions but i must confess that i can't give one that solves every aspect.

 
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RBN said:
Ok, but if we accept this "definition" every base is a cheesy base.

I prefer to use the words by their exact definition. A cheesy base must use an exploit Or bug in the game to be called that way.

Every structure that use the tools that the game itself gives you is a legit option. A corridor, a pit, a solid block structure of zillions of layers, all of then are legit and is the player who must choose what he enjoy more.

Anyway I'm with you, the AI in horde night need to be refined. I read a lot of  threads about it with multiple solutions but i must confess that i can't give one that solves every aspect.
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In the same definition, fighting the hordes on the street is also cheese. As are tower bases, catwalks, melee bases, AFK bases, every single base (or lack thereof) involves "cheese". (I call it "tactics" and using the environment to your advantage.) It all depends on who you ask.

 
Yeah, All is cheese 🤣. I always ask myself what kind of defense or strategy they use that is not cheesy. Maybe let the zombies kill you....

I don't know man but a tactic is a intelligent solution to a problem and and cheese is cheating, in my book they are different but who knows, in this days the words have no meaning any more

 
RBN said:
Yeah, All is cheese 🤣. I always ask myself what kind of defense or strategy they use that is not cheesy. Maybe let the zombies kill you....

I don't know man but a tactic is a intelligent solution to a problem and and cheese is cheating, in my book they are different but who knows, in this days the words have no meaning any more
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In my eyes, all bases (or lack thereof) are equal. Judging people for playing the game a certain way is small d-energy if you ask me. :)  The closest traditional definition we have to "cheese" are AFK bases, especially ones that exploit certain blocks, but people can play how they want. It's all about progression, outsmarting the zombies, and getting ahead of them, grasping that advantage. That's not cheese, that's just using the human brain. Lol.

But honestly, what's the difference between an elevated pathway base and a moat dug around your base to force zombies to come from one direction? Ever heard of castles before? 😛

 
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Exactly.

In a run time ago, bored and full of gear in day 100 and a lot, i did an AFK base (traps, turrets, electric fences, you know all the pasive stuff) and was so proud that i didn't need to shout or kill a single zombie. Not a thing for everyday, at that point is more fun to get ground level and confront them face to face but was very interesting and gratifying.

 
RBN said:
A cheesy base must use an exploit Or bug in the game to be called that way.
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Right; we agree. I'm suggesting that zombies running in place swinging at air instead of hitting blocks blocking them is a bug. It's the AI that is cheesy, not the melee base.

 
I don't know what kind of melee base do you use but if you put a pole or a hatch between you and the zombos they didn't run in place or swing in the air, they come right in front of you and hit the pole or hatch. With the added disadvantage that when they hit a pole they do 6xdamaged. If you get away a moment or fail to repair in time you are @%$#ed in seconds.

You can say a lot of things about AI but if you give them a clear path to you you can be sure they will follow it

 
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Yup.  

When a base design exploits a weakness in the AI, THAT is a cheese base.   Anything else IMO is just playing the game.

Then again, why should anyone care so much that someone wants to cheese the game to have fun?  The mysteries of being human I guess.

 
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