PC Alpha 20 Dev Diary

[hiemfire]

If you spawn in on day one and go "I want to play a build focusing on int!"  you have to spend more points on Int Attribute than the other attributes do, before you can even buy level 1 of your intended perk, because the first level of the int weapon stuff takes 3 or 5 int (can't remember off top of my head) before you can even put 1 point in it. By comparison, the other attributes can just put a point straight into club / shotgun damage right from level 1 without having to raise Strength / Perception / Agility etc

Batons are able to be perked into at 1 Int and A20 is rectifying the 0 baton options without parts it seems via the junk baton. Though I wouldn't put it past them to gate the junk baton behind baton parts, just fewer of them per weapon level and the junk baton not scraping to parts. First perk for Robotics unlocks for purchase at Int 4 iirc and the remaining levels for Robotics have a irregular positioning from Int 6 through Int 10.

You realize Miner 69r does not change the amount of damage you inflict to zombies, don't you?

It does for the tools whos crafting is governed by it, and strength affects head shot damage done by those tools too.

 

[Roland]

@faatalApproximately how many MF do you need to fix for the release of the experimental A20?

 He just posted that there is a minimum of 32. But that number will rise and fall over the next few weeks. Better to trust an emoji countdown than a MF countdown...

 

[SnowDog1942]

 He just posted that there is a minimum of 32. But that number will rise and fall over the next few weeks. Better to trust an emoji countdown than a MF countdown...

Unless it comes out next week!

lol

 

[Aldranon]

Thanksgiving weekend would be great for the streamers, they would get some large numbers of viewer I'm sure.

The weekend before Christmas would be a good marketing ploy.

However, now would be good for me, just PM me with a testers key and nobody will ever know!  Well, just a few would know, from my squeals of laughter and joy! 

 

[dcsobral]

It does for the tools whos crafting is governed by it, and strength affects head shot damage done by those tools too.

I was just replying how it only affects block damage when I went to copy the XML and saw it does affect entity damage as well. So I wondered when that changed and it turns out it changed on alpha 18.  Damn, I'm usually better at picking up this sort of change.

Gah.

And Salvage Operations also affects the wrenching tools, which is great since they have a pretty good DPS and they don't have the stop-stamina-recovery effect on power attacks. Also, though this may have changed on alpha 19 (it was true for alpha 18), the wrench does not have grazing hits which makes it the ideal melee weapon against demolishers.

 

[meilodasreh]

There is no hard number for what must be fixed for experimental. We prioritize them by Highest, High, Medium, Low. Highest and High would be ones we want fixed, but as many Mediums as we can.

 So MF means

highest priority MF = must fix

high priority MF = mainly fix

medium priority MF = maybe fix

low priority MF = meh... fix (...or not who cares)



...seems legit to me 

 

[dcsobral]

 So MF means

highest priority MF = must fix

high priority MF = mainly fix

medium priority MF = maybe fix

low priority MF = meh... fix (...or not who cares)



...seems legit to me 

The distinction was before a19 stable (MF) and a19 experimental (HH/H).

 

[Blake_]

 He just posted that there is a minimum of 32. But that number will rise and fall over the next few weeks. Better to trust an emoji countdown than a MF countdown...

 

[khzmusik]

There is no hard number for what must be fixed for experimental. We prioritize them by Highest, High, Medium, Low. Highest and High would be ones we want fixed, but as many Mediums as we can.

Highest+High is currently 32.

Wow. Considering that it was over 100 about a day ago, that's pretty quick work. (Hopefully not just from you, since every human needs sleep.)

Now, just waiting for QA to find more bugs so that it can jump to over 200 again.

 

[Star69]

I can't believe folks are 'meh' on the stun baton. It's by far my go-to melee weapon. AFAIK, it's the only melee weapon that you can use to kill a bear and take zero damage. The stun effect is awesome. I know that the damage is weak but the stun factor more than makes up for it. I'm really interested in trying the T0 baton and how it compares.

 

[SnowDog1942]

 AFAIK, it's the only melee weapon that you can use to kill a bear and take zero damage. 

My 3rd leg is also capable of this task.

 

[faatal]

Wow. Considering that it was over 100 about a day ago, that's pretty quick work. (Hopefully not just from you, since every human needs sleep.)

Now, just waiting for QA to find more bugs so that it can jump to over 200 again.

Wrong interpretation. The total is currently 104. The 32 number was of Highest plus High bugs in reference to which ones we really need to fix for experimental, which is different from what you would want fixed for stable.

 

[khzmusik]

Wrong interpretation. The total is currently 104. The 32 number was of Highest plus High bugs in reference to which ones we really need to fix for experimental, which is different from what you would want fixed for stable.

As a professional programmer, that was not the wrong interpretation. There have been numerous times where our team was getting ready for a release, only for QA to find bugs that we caused when we fixed other bugs, and those new bugs were an order of magnitude more than the bugs we fixed. Really made CAB meetings exciting.

As far as the literal number goes, I was assuming MF bugs were the same as "Highest" plus "High" bugs, and the rest were "nice to have, but don't hold up a release" bugs.

 

[Roland]

@hiemfire I feel it incumbant to inform you as your main foil in this issue that today a ticket was created to look at making the attack volumes run a stealth check first and only if that stealth check fails will they attack. Seems "Auto Attack" is getting fixed.

Congratulations on a year's worth of lively debate ending in your favor. You have my capitulation. 

As long as there is still a chance for a failed roll and therefore some variation to stealth play, I'm fine with it. I just hope it isn't essentially a nonexistent chance.

Maybe it could be like the chance for vomiting used to be....

 

[Khalagar]

You realize Miner 69r does not change the amount of damage you inflict to zombies, don't you?

Sorry, it's strength itself that does

Do you not use a bow?

Not when I'm doing an int build no. Bows are . . . . okay, kind of. They are pretty outclassed by hunting rifles which will one hit headshot kill with sneak attacks without needing perks, and with better range. Arrows are easier to craft, but you get bullets so commonly in A19 that I almost always have 500+ 7.62mm rounds before I've even found a gun

You can obviously use off attribute weapons, but my point was more talking about focused builds like you typically have when playing in coop, where each person specializes in a specific weapon and play style so they don't compete for resources / because it's more fun. Int doesn't have the weapon variety to even *do* a full int focused build for the first few weeks, and even later on it just doesn't work well for it, so you end up just relying on shotguns typically, since most int builds will probably have strength for Miner 69 and Motherlode as those are basically required for the int play style to even work

I feel the fact weapons are locked to stats was a stupid move period

Yeah, I don't like the change either honestly. Mainly because the attribute points are wasted if you are using an off attribute weapon. Like if you really want Parkour but don't even use bows or pistols, every point you sink into Agility doesn't do anything and is just filler. I'd much rather attributes act like, y'know, attributes. Increase strength to get more inventory slots / melee damage, increase agility to increase jump height / run speed, increase endurance to increase stamina regen etc

It is different than the other trees. Thus, it gives a completely different gameplay experience.

The "asymmetrical play-style" can be kept while also just making the perk line better designed towards that goal. You can still have a defense focused play style that plays different from the others, that's fine and cool. The part that isn't is that the perk line doesn't even work for the first few weeks. That doesn't benefit anyone and just makes the playstyle *less* unique in that you have to just use the same off attribute shotguns and bows like every other build.

Electrocutioner does not require Int 3 or 5 to unlock the first level, you can unlock it right away in the game

I wasn't talking about the stun baton perk, I was talking about the robotic perk line. You can buy both  the melee / ranged perk starting level 1 in every other tree, but not in the Int tree

I begin to wonder if you actually have seriously played an Int build rather than just looking at the perks and saying, Nah it's too weak.

I have like 500+ hours alone on int builds lol, the only build I've never done is a brawler build based on knuckles, and a full machete only focused build because machete is bad in every test I've tried it with.  Nearly every build I do ends up just being strength / int because they fit my playstyle.

Your video is likely on a lower difficulty than mine, and you seem to have exp turned up. You used the stun baton against a couple of basic zombies and still had to kite and struggle, spawn those same zombies and try the same test with a fully perked level 6 steel club, you'll 1-2 shot them and be done in a fraction of the time without needing to kite.  The baton wasn't really doing anything for you there that a steel axe wouldn't have done, probably done easier as well. Steel axe did pretty well in my tests of all the weapons actually

 

[Blake_]

As a professional programmer, that was not the wrong interpretation. There have been numerous times where our team was getting ready for a release, only for QA to find bugs that we caused when we fixed other bugs, and those new bugs were an order of magnitude more than the bugs we fixed. Really made CAB meetings exciting.

As far as the literal number goes, I was assuming MF bugs were the same as "Highest" plus "High" bugs, and the rest were "nice to have, but don't hold up a release" bugs.

Pulling rank, are we?

Yeah. That's not an outrageous assumption. Those bugs might very well be pregnant. Highest priority ones usually are. You forgot to pun in the faatal factor though. It's a buff that speeds up development by 50% on weekends.

 

[Mechanimal]

Not when I'm doing an int build no. Bows are . . . . okay, kind of. They are pretty outclassed by hunting rifles which will one hit headshot kill with sneak attacks without needing perks, and with better range. Arrows are easier to craft, but you get bullets so commonly in A19 that I almost always have 500+ 7.62mm rounds before I've even found a gun..

Well of course a hunting rifle is gonna hurt more than a bow, and I too use them, but they definitely violate the concept of stealth. I'm not gonna wake up half the sleepers in a POI just to get one headshot. And again I try to save my ammo anyway. I would use a hunting rifle in place of an AK... at least until I got an AK

I would maybe use a gun with a silencer, but I swear the silencer doesn't work, or barely does, cause every time I try it on a stealth run it ends up waking sleepers anyhow.. Not even sure why it's in the game if it doesn't function properly. Haven't tried one in awhile though, may again in A20 just to see if it still fails at actually being silent.

I've thought more about how weapons and their upgrades are locked within certain attributes, got to say I agree, I wish none of them were. There are weapons I never bother with because of that, shame really. Makes me wonder why the F they can't compromise and re-introduce LBD back in alongside the perk system, at least for weapons. There is a mod that does that and it works really well. But I know the LBD conversation in general is "off-limits" these days so nevermind. Maybe they could at least give each weapon it's own place to perk into them outside of the attributes, I dunno, something, but yeah, locking different weapons behind specific attributes still feels janky and off, inappropriate, I do agree with that. Even though I use bows a ton I rarely if ever actually perk far into them, if at all, because of the attribute they are locked behind, it sucks but I just ignore it and use them anyway.

[SIZE=13.5px]I was excited to see LBD again in Valheim, but holy @%$# is the death penalty brutal in that game, especially once you try to level up anything beyond 50. Things start to take forever to level up as it gets higher, but then a single death can remove 2 to 3 levels of a perk, at once. I have a character that I've played since it's release and he's basically stuck, one step forward 2-3 steps back, I @%$#ing hate it and can't take the game seriously anymore because of it. Can spend hours, days, leveling up skills just to lose it all in a flash, often for no good reason. Ruined that game for me, well, ruined caring about my character. Still love the game, but I try not to even look at my skill levels anymore because it ticks me off so much. It has wasted literal days of my time, point being these systems need to be well balanced and not over penalize players or it can ruin the entire experience rather easily.[/SIZE]

 

[A Nice Cup of Tea]

 He just posted that there is a minimum of 32. But that number will rise and fall over the next few weeks. Better to trust an emoji countdown than a MF countdown...

It's also harder to put hidden Illuminati messages in an MF countdown.

 

[Khalagar]

I would maybe use a gun with a silencer, but I swear the silencer doesn't work, or barely does, cause every time I try it on a stealth run it ends up waking sleepers anyhow.. Not even sure why it's in the game if it doesn't function properly.

Silencer does not work, or rather, not in any way that's useful. From my tests, silencer only works on roaming hordes or zombies that are already awake. Stealth as a whole basically doesn't work, which is why hunting rifle is better than the bow IMO.

You won't wake any sleepers if you stand outside their aggro radius with a hunting rifle and just crouch and head shot them. Sleepers only wake when you enter their aggro zone, there's basically a big invisible border denoting where the "sleeper room" starts. Up to that zone, you can literally just take a fire axe to the wall and open a window to shoot through, crouch, and stand there head shotting every single sleeper in the room from outside the room, and the zombies won't wake up. Even when there are two standing side by side, they won't wake up when you kill the one next to them

They seem to only wake up if you miss a shot and hit a wall or the floor etc, which probably registers you as being in the room, or if you don't get a one hit kill they will sometimes wake up when the angry sleeper does.

Stealth as a whole is in as bad of / worse shape than the Int perk line is imo, as stealth is completely pointless on the most important night of the week, and it doesn't matter against  sleepers either. Stealth really only matters against roaming hordes and already awake zombies, which are rarely ever a threat

 

[Firingo]

Well of course a hunting rifle is gonna hurt more than a bow, and I too use them, but they definitely violate the concept of stealth. I'm not gonna wake up half the sleepers in a POI just to get one headshot. And again I try to save my ammo anyway. I would use a hunting rifle in place of an AK... at least until I got an AK

I would maybe use a gun with a silencer, but I swear the silencer doesn't work, or barely does, cause every time I try it on a stealth run it ends up waking sleepers anyhow.. Not even sure why it's in the game if it doesn't function properly. Haven't tried one in awhile though, may again in A20 just to see if it still fails at actually being silent.

I've thought more about how weapons and their upgrades are locked within certain attributes, got to say I agree, I wish none of them were. There are weapons I never bother with because of that, shame really. Makes me wonder why the F they can't compromise and re-introduce LBD back in alongside the perk system, at least for weapons. There is a mod that does that and it works really well. But I know the LBD conversation in general is "off-limits" these days so nevermind. Maybe they could at least give each weapon it's own place to perk into them outside of the attributes, I dunno, something, but yeah, locking different weapons behind specific attributes still feels janky and off, inappropriate, I do agree with that. Even though I use bows a ton I rarely if ever actually perk far into them, if at all, because of the attribute they are locked behind, it sucks but I just ignore it and use them anyway.

 I love bows and crossbows because I love use stealth. Silencer should not be so effective as bow because they really are not so quiet as you can see (hear) in movies. But I don't know how big effect they have in the game I never actually use them.

I totally agree lock weapons behind certain skill tree. Overal skill tree in 7 days is worst part of the game for me actually. It is just so boring design. A lot of skills I would like to use like healing skill are lock behind investing in fortitude. But I rarely use shotguns and knucles so it feels like wasting points. If you at least get something usefull from investing in these perks like it was in A17, now you just get bonus to the headshot damage for certain weapon you will not use. And even skills for weapons you actually use are mostly just 10% damage boost, thats just boring. Make every poin invest in these skills interesting. Lock weapon crafting of the better weapon type behind certain level of the skill. Get rid of Run and gun. Let us upgrade reloading speed of the weapons with the certain weapon skill. Add some interesting new ability with weapon for every level etc. I miss LBD so much, as you said at least for the weapons. We know LBD never returne but at least they should rework current skill three completly. Please Fun Pimps, make every level up interesting don't force us to invest points into poitles atributes just for one or two skills. Hire someone who have a lot of experiece with RPG genre when you go that direction anyway.

And with Valheim... I agree for 100% as well. I hate that from the start. LBD in the game is great but death penalty when you have skills 50+ is absurd you spent several hours of the playing get one level in the skill and than one mistake and several days of playing are flush down the toilet. Terrible design as well.