madmole said:
I totally agree with this. Min maxing is natural, yet the most unnatural thing to do to your game and is assured to kill the fun after the first time or two. The fun is building a memorable character who HAS character. It is mostly pre RPG people who bought it for survival, zombies etc. The people now coming on board buying it for the RPG factors seem to love what is possible with the perk system and the role playing you can do. I'd call it a light RPG, but just like with building you can build a box to live in or a castle. You can choose not to role play, or do some very creative things with it, that = fun game play.
*snip*
DISCLAIMER: I might be testing or playing wrong, but this is the way the current system makes me feel. I am playing the game organically, as in, not trying to mod the @%$# out of it by using minimal or non-gameplay mods, and not using the admin commands. I'm not trying to play any particular way, just doing what I enjoy and what feels rewarding to me. I don't want the game to be like xyz game, and that's not my aim here. I'm just interested in seeing the game become more immersive. I'm not a dev, so all I can do is tell you how I feel about the game's mechanics as a player, and what I would like to see in the future. Edited for formatting.
From The Shadows shall henceforth be referenced as FTS. I think we can all agree that Hidden Strike is an effective skill, even with a short knife if youre quick, which an agility build should be!
Does this mean you disagree that FTS is ineffective, or that you don't care if it is or isn't?
Because you're right - stealth right now is pure RP for me because its not worth putting points into it for the minimal return. The reason for that appears to be in the way that sleepers and POI's operate. Sure, sneaking is a bit of RP fun, but that is all it is. Having FTS kind of indicates that it's intended to be viable at least some of the time, but my argument here is that its just not viable...
Why I don't think FTS is a viable skill:
Without pumping any points into stealth skills, I feel just as effective with my bow, silenced pistol, and knife, as I do with maxed out stealth skills and the same tools (in POIs). Heck, pop a squat (or don't, there's not much difference) with a shotgun and take a POI with no points in stealth or shotguns and you will be more effective than a bowman with 3 levels in archery and from the shadows. Because the hard-coded wake up sleepers don't care about your stealth, nor do the outside zombies, and the sleepers that are SUPPOSED to wake up don't until you're basically on top of them anyway - at which point the proximity wake up goes off and springs you regardless of stealth.
My suggestion:
If you really don't care about stealth skills being effective, get rid of FTS. As it is now it feels like false advertising to me

it's a trap!
If you want stealth skill trees, make it possible for the player to sneak past zombies hiding in wardrobes and other traps. Make sleepers react to sound more, but still less than a wandering zombie if you want to keep the feeling of sleepers being dormant. Something like this incredibly creepy scene from one of my favourite horror movies of all time

(0:46 - 1:50 for the juicy bit)
Implement a skill tree for detecting other traps like loose boards and sneaky mines. Make it possible to open containers
without alerting outside zombies through walls, but perhaps reduce the loot in them (you were being careful not to knock things around so maybe you missed some things) or stick to the current hamstring of increased search time (but imo that would need to be increased to offset being able to avoid zombies).
You might be worried that its too easy if you can sneak past the zombies all the time - but remember, those players would be missing out on a good chunk of xp from killing those zombies. Plus, it takes so much longer to sneak through the POIs so your loot+xp/time ratio helps offset the ease of avoiding zombie conflict again.
Side note - are there any plans to bring in audio occlusion? If zombies are a floor above or below you there is no difference in volume that I can tell, so when this happens in a POI I basically have to sneak allllllll the way back down to ground floor to see where they got in and execute them if I dont want surprises while looting.
Idea - I think that outside noises being muffled while you're inside would really increase the atmospheric tension, especially if you create a special sneaky zombie that climbs in through broken windows without making a sound, smacking you with a sneak attack of their own! These ones could have heightened senses that counter act the from the shadows perk, so if you want to try sneaking past THIS zombie, you better max it out

see where I am going with this? Reward the stealth gameplay without reducing the game's difficulty and you will build a game that appeals to a wider market - as a dev, I suspect you have already thought about these points and I don't intend to imply that you don't know what you're doing, only that there are players out there who would be keen for this kind of thing (me for one obviously lol).
This one is possibly too hard to implement but I like the idea anyway: the special Sneaky Boi could have an ability to slide through certain blocks, like the windows with broken glass but the steel frame still intact, and some of the building blocks with wider gaps like the 1/4 blocks. I would hate this because I love using those blocks as a floaty fence, but it would feel more diverse, immersive, and challenging! I'm picturing a child-sized creature (not actual child but the size), skin like the Wight, but all sinew instead of muscle. Limbs that are too thin and disproportionate to the body, with pointed ends for hands... perfect for back stabbing the unwary player!
Side question - The perk From The Shadows ... is it meant to function as a heat map reduction? Because I honestly don't feel any different with it pumped or not, squat or not.
If you made it this far, thank you, Almighty One!