As TFP have added more weapons to the game, the tier lists keep getting resorted. I suspect there's some inconsistencies in the documentation. Since we know pipe weapons are coming, we can reason that tools and firearms will have 4 tiers, and most melee weapons will have 3.
PC Alpha 19 Dev Diary
- Thread starter madmole
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MechanicalLens
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To eliminate confusion, going back to the first argument, I suggest we label the 3 tiers of weapons (ex. wooden club, baseball bat, steel club) as V1, V2, and V3 (or version 1, 2, and 3).
Because it makes sense - there are 3 tiers to a melee weapon (minus the Stun Baton), but now there is a T0 tech age, it would be weird to label them as Tiers 1, 2, and 3, or Tiers 0, 1, and 2, since there are no primitive guns other than the blunderbuss (yet), and the first variant of melee weapons are obviously primitives. This would cause some head scratching over why there aren't any T3 melee weapons, since the highest tier ones would now be labeled as T2. Hence, let's just call progression tree of melee "V1, V2, and V3".
Because it makes sense - there are 3 tiers to a melee weapon (minus the Stun Baton), but now there is a T0 tech age, it would be weird to label them as Tiers 1, 2, and 3, or Tiers 0, 1, and 2, since there are no primitive guns other than the blunderbuss (yet), and the first variant of melee weapons are obviously primitives. This would cause some head scratching over why there aren't any T3 melee weapons, since the highest tier ones would now be labeled as T2. Hence, let's just call progression tree of melee "V1, V2, and V3".
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Kalen
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I just assumed since they're adding T0 ranged weapons they'll, at some point, add T3 melee weapons.
MechanicalLens
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That's the thing: T3 melee weapons are already in the game, they just drop in the T2 age. Back in A18, where the rest of the melee weapons were introduced, there was no T0; not really. The blunderbuss was its own thing and, back then, we heard nothing about pipe weapons (or T0 guns) being added. So guns will be Tiers 0-3, and melee is Tiers 1-3, or they could also be T 0-2. It's a slight inconsistency. Understand?
Kalen
New member
I understand, I just don't agree. The A19 loot doc is pretty clear.... T0-T2 for melee so currently there are no T3 melee items. Again, it makes no practical difference whether you say T1-T3 and I say T0-T2.... unless a new tier gets added. Its entirely possible the doc is out of date too.That's the thing: T3 melee weapons are already in the game, they just drop in the T2 age. Back in A18, where the rest of the melee weapons were introduced, there was no T0; not really. The blunderbuss was its own thing and, back then, we heard nothing about pipe weapons (or T0 guns) being added. So guns will be Tiers 0-3, and melee is Tiers 1-3, or they could also be T 0-2. It's a slight inconsistency. Understand?
MechanicalLens
New member
No, what it means is it can go both ways. Lol There are 3 tiers to melee, and soon-to-be 4 tiers to guns. Unless another tier of melee is introduced, there will always be this confusion.
Allow me to break it down for ya.
A18
No official T0. Thus, back then, the wooden club was a T1 melee weapon much like the double barrel shotgun was the T1 shotgun. (Blunderbuss was technically T0, but it was an exception, and come on, very, very few people used the thing.) Therefore, Tiers 1-3 existed. (Example: Stone Spear (T1), Iron Spear (T2), and Steel Spear (T3); however, a lot of the firearm classes were incomplete since they were missing some T2 or T3 variants, which were added in A19. Agility was and still is an exception, sporting two T3 guns, and Intellect melee was and still is an exception, only including the Stun Baton.)
A19
The primitive age is added. Former T1 melee weapons, like the wooden club, are technically reclassified as T0, but it's not incorrect to identify them as their former labels either. The bone knife, for example, could be labeled either as T1 or as T0. Guns will have 4 tiers in A20, melee will still have 3.
To get all detailed about it, there are 3 tiers to melee, hence why people use the term "T1, T2, and T3", but with the primitive age added, they can now be reclassified as T0, T1, and T2. Basically, the term "tier" now has 2 different meanings: the age in which it is crafted/looted, and the number of melee weapons within the class itself. In other words, there are two definitions to "tier": the age in which that progression level of melee is found (so Tiers 0-3), or it could simply mean someone cataloging that there are 3 levels of progression through melee. So, tiers 1-3, which now have nothing to do with the age in which they are found.
Make sense?
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Kalen
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MechanicalLens
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Yeah.Heh, yes it makes perfect sense.... I fully realize why there is confusion
Think of it like the heat map. When some misinformed people hear that, they think it has to do with temperature. It doesn't; it's a military term for activity within the area. Same words, different meanings. 
wolfbain5
Well-known member
plus industry standard for the majority of games that use numbers or colors is like this
1st tier or grey/brown 7dtd-stone
2nd tier or orange 7dtd iron
3rd or yellow 7dtd steel
green
blue
purple
gold
color order does vary tho
but for the Most part <qualifier needed for nitpickers> there is almost no t0. they almost all start at 1
that way in gw, wow, eq, eq2, etc
1st tier or grey/brown 7dtd-stone
2nd tier or orange 7dtd iron
3rd or yellow 7dtd steel
green
blue
purple
gold
color order does vary tho
but for the Most part <qualifier needed for nitpickers> there is almost no t0. they almost all start at 1
that way in gw, wow, eq, eq2, etc
Kalen
New member
Yeah, but what you're talking about with the color coding is quality in 7days.... and in that you are correct there is no Q0.
VenomsLust
New member
Seems to me the document doesn't follow it's own listed criteria...
Primitive - Anyone can craft this if they have the materials.
Tier 1 - Unlocked with the first rank of the governing Perk.
Tier 2 - Unlocked with ranks 3-5 of the governing Perk.
Tier 3 - Schematic only.
According to those criteria, the T2 Melee weapons should be listed as T3. (Exception: Stun Baton should be listed as T1)
@wolfbain5 You're mixing up "Tier" with "Quality". Think of "Tier" more as "Technology Tier". So, an M60 is a "Tech Tier" 3 and comes in "Quality" 1-6.
Primitive - Anyone can craft this if they have the materials.
Tier 1 - Unlocked with the first rank of the governing Perk.
Tier 2 - Unlocked with ranks 3-5 of the governing Perk.
Tier 3 - Schematic only.
According to those criteria, the T2 Melee weapons should be listed as T3. (Exception: Stun Baton should be listed as T1)
@wolfbain5 You're mixing up "Tier" with "Quality". Think of "Tier" more as "Technology Tier". So, an M60 is a "Tech Tier" 3 and comes in "Quality" 1-6.
Kalen
New member
Yup, lot of discrepancies. For example steel tools are Tier 2 but are schematic only. To me, the only thing that really matters is when they appear in loot. If something shows up in the Tier 1 loot then, as far as I'm concerned, it doesn't matter what its called... it's Tier 1.
VenomsLust
New member
VenomsLust
New member
Just occurred to me (coffee must be setting in) that they recently moved all the late-perk (unlocked with ranks 3-5 of governing perk) items to schematic only.
So, almost all of those T2 items are (since that patch) now T3 items.
So, almost all of those T2 items are (since that patch) now T3 items.
MechanicalLens
New member
If you put several points into Better Barter the trader's should have them in their secret stash quite frequently. Otherwise, you're not supposed to have it for a while in-game.
Aldranon
New member
Vultures.
Currently, the most scary thing in the game for me and probably for others.
So as part of a (separate?) setting in difficulty, have wandering hordes (8+) of vultures.
32 or 64 of them would remind me (Edit: of) the old movie: "The Birds".
Currently, the most scary thing in the game for me and probably for others.
So as part of a (separate?) setting in difficulty, have wandering hordes (8+) of vultures.
32 or 64 of them would remind me (Edit: of) the old movie: "The Birds".
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Jost Amman
Well-known member
Note this was a theoretical discussion about a "stealth build", he did not say he had problems with playing the game, he said if he wants to play a pure stealth build he would need to still take weapon outside the "core". My reply was about what is in that core.
You are half right, I actually thought he was talking about the AGI attribute when he said "core build". But with that term he seems to only mean stealth and stealth weapons. Now I still am right because any weapon with a silencer IS part of a stealth core build (in this game), and that includes quite a lot of guns. If you think it is not, please explain
Outlaw_187
Active member
I was so stoked to finally build the gyrocopter.....until I tried to test drive it!!
Holy sh*t! Now I've read the gyro is pretty wonky but how in the ever loving hell are you supposed to fly this thing??!!
It was the day of my 28 day horde so I gave up after a few tries. I'll try again next time I log on but does anyone have any tips?
Holy sh*t! Now I've read the gyro is pretty wonky but how in the ever loving hell are you supposed to fly this thing??!!
It was the day of my 28 day horde so I gave up after a few tries. I'll try again next time I log on but does anyone have any tips?
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