PC Alpha 19 Dev Diary

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pregnable said:
He has stated before that that is the way to do it heh. 

I usually just loot it first then only slightly loot it after I start the quest.  Save that for the next time I get a quest there. 

I like that you can do that cause if you are someone that does not want giant holes all over your world you can just farm the earth and resources at a quest location then start the quest to repair it all.... and yes I do do that sometimes lol. 
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He stated that? Hmm, I always just kinda thought of it like how sometimes you get a extra bag of chips out of the vending machine. You can take it if you want, or leave it there cause you didn't pay for it.

 
STyK_ said:
it appeared as if you were trying to defend nerdpoll looting, polling to the loot floor and sneak killing. If you were not then sorry. Jumped in to debate was all.
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Personally  I think it should be left alone.  It is what it is and ppl are going to do with it whatever they feel like doing. 

Personally I use it myself for various situation when needed. As far as the whole NP to the top of a roof to get the loot without dealing with zombies and poi design. Personally I rarly do this myself as I have fun tearing though a poi and killing all the zombies and looting what I can til the end. But should I see something hidden up high with no clear way to get to it that I can see them I will just pole up to see what it was and move on. 

With that said. Trying to put in anything to prevent NPing will be a coding night mare and cause more trouble than it worth. And I’ll give a few example why I believe that. 

Lets say there is Loot on a roof that I want but I don’t want to go though the poi to get it. Can’t NP to it as that’s banned. So now I’m just going to build a crude stair case to the roof or put ladders on the wall up to the roof. Whelp taking NPing didn’t stop me from getting up there without going in the poi. So now building on the poi is now banned. Not much use,using a poi as a base anymore since you can’t build on it which means you can’t  place your storage and crafting tables in it. Lot of ppl won’t be happy about that. But hey you stopped from getting up there without going In the poi right?  Not really.  Cause I can turn the poi wall into a makeshift stair case by breaking the walls. Sure I’d deal with the few zombies I woke up. But I still got up there without having to do the entire poi. So now to prevent that. No more breaking the poi. And then the whole idea of having a fully destructible world becomes a mute point cause you can’t destroy any poi’s now. Also that makes horde nights easier. Since you can’t break the poi then neither can the zombies. So avoiding the horde would be easy. And for them to be able to break the poi and you can’t would really be unfair. But you can’t  live in a poi anyway cause no building in it so can’t put your craft table in it. 

Already geting it like that would be a coding nightmare. And taking everything I said the player base would drop heavily as most wont find these fun and the promise of a fully destructible world can no longer be delivered. 

In conlustion. You make your own choice weather you want to NP or not. It dosnt need to be an added option to the base game. You want the option than impose it apon yourself or get a mod for it.dont impose it on other ppls playstyles. And leave well enough alone. It wasn’t broke to begin and it dosn’t need fixing now. 

Good night and take care. 

 
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Nobody said anything about banning, you guys are twisting words and acting like the sky is falling. I've said from the beginning 'option.' If anything you guys are trying to tell me how to play and force this on me because it's been this way for so long and you don't want to see it change even though because it would be an 'option' it wouldn't even effect you unless you turned it on. Seems to me discouraging it, which is what it would be, is as easy as not being able to jump and place a frame (in raven hearst mod) and removing 'E' to pick up which is already going to be implemented on somethings in the future. Again for the 10th time it would be something that would be turned on or turned off which would be your choice unless you joined a multiplayer game where the option was already picked.

Edit: If your friends end up playing with the option on maybe its time to switch the brown pants out for some big boy pants and take on a challenge, step outside your norm.

 
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pregnable said:
He has stated before that that is the way to do it heh. 

I usually just loot it first then only slightly loot it after I start the quest.  Save that for the next time I get a quest there. 

I like that you can do that cause if you are someone that does not want giant holes all over your world you can just farm the earth and resources at a quest location then start the quest to repair it all.... and yes I do do that sometimes lol. 
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Repair is not a problem. Accept the quest at a trader and everything gets repaired and/or warned at said POI if you already have something built there. That's the way to do it. 

I believe it is not a popular opinion. I can see why "moar loot, moar xp" is easy to side with, that's why I am pointing out that it is indeed an ugly, "stone axe spamcrafting " design.

 
madmole said:
We could add some locked doors, but would need to change all the ones currently placed as "jammed"  or "barricaded" meaning they were never meant to be opened by the level designers.
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WOW! Great move man. And here is more for you: Every POI has it own maze, how about put some locked doors to let players with lock pick and stealth skills have more path options? To be honest, I think lockpick is very easy, it should be more difficulty to players without the proper skill. So, the players who have invested in lock pick will have more advantage when raiding than players without that because they will can unlock doors and get easy paths to explore the POI.

But great idea:
barricaded = doors what were never meant to be opened.

locked doors = doors what can be unlocked through lockpick
player made doors = never can be opened.

Anyway, I support your suggestion. 👍
 

 
Demandred1957 said:
He stated that? Hmm, I always just kinda thought of it like how sometimes you get a extra bag of chips out of the vending machine. You can take it if you want, or leave it there cause you didn't pay for it.
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In fact he stated quite the contrary ( no duplicates), but internally. In the last dev stream with Prime and faatal they talk about it for a tiny bit, and I guess it is as important a concept as destroyable traders, and just as "solvable", but takes time from other more important stuff and might be unpopular.

 
I had an odd idea, I know zombies attack you simply because they are made too, and screamers come because of the "heat map" you make with the driver, auger, chainsaws, forges etc.

What if it was made so the zombies actually attacked heat sources?  I mean as a person we generate heat period, but zombies if anything are dumb but can act smart, imagine horde night, your waiting for the zombies to come to your horde base only to realize that the zombies are attacking your home because you left the lights on or the generator running, could make for some interesting gameplay.  Or while in your horde base they attack the lights you set up cause they generate a little heat, could make things interesting, just a thought.

 
Blake_ said:
In fact he stated quite the contrary ( no duplicates), but internally. In the last dev stream with Prime and faatal they talk about it for a tiny bit, and I guess it is as important a concept as destroyable traders, and just as "solvable", but takes time from other more important stuff and might be unpopular.
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I mean MM did say to loot it first and then start the quest and loot it again. 

He said something like "this is how you do it", but if they have changed their minds or think it is a problem now then that is fine, I do not really care. 

I do like being able to strip the ground and everything around a place though and have it all rebuilt when starting a quest. 

 
pregnable said:
I like that you can do that cause if you are someone that does not want giant holes all over your world you can just farm the earth and resources at a quest location then start the quest to repair it all.... and yes I do do that sometimes lol. 
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hmm... wonder what would happen if @Kage848 could convince Autumn to dig some clay, wait until she's 3+ blocks deep, then fire off the Quest? :biggrin1:

Think that'd be pretty epic if he insta encased her in dirt, and she seems more than cool enough to see the humor.

 
madmole said:
It really depends if we stick to the Unity engine, but I would say it is unlikely we will get rid of destructible ground.
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@madmole if upgrading to Unreal Engine means the removal of the destructible ground/world. I wouldnt risk making that change for the 7 Days to Die title. The destructible world/1 meter building blocks and random world generation is what makes this game so enjoyable.

And the 1 meter block IMO is so much better then how rust and fallout does their bace building, it gives the player freedom to add more details with out the eyesore of a repetitive wall or shapes (you can quite literally make a house look like a house)

And last RWG this is why i have so many hours on this game, you can have unlimited amount of different worlds to explore. Repeatability of this game is endless. Every world is different and unique

If you get rid of one of these (destructible worlds/1 meter blocks or RWG). Please make it a different title as that strays too far from 7 days to die unique gameplay that people know and love. Im sure you know this but some AAA developers dont and when they release a sequel it fails, all because they got rid of the few things that made that game unique

can you please reply to this even with the simplest answer, id just wana get a clue to the future

Back to A19 talk

 
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pregnable said:
I mean MM did say to loot it first and then start the quest and loot it again. 

He said something like "this is how you do it", but if they have changed their minds or think it is a problem now then that is fine, I do not really care. 

I do like being able to strip the ground and everything around a place though and have it all rebuilt when starting a quest. 
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Yeah... not exactly, but I can see why you would interpret it that way. He stated that you "can" do it so we stopped whinning, and we were talking about bullet abundance (actually that was one of the times, he actually stated that more than once). He never sided with the fact, but he does it more often than not. So it IS a tricky subject and that's why I'm asking. 

It's a cheap design. Too convenient for the player and unbalances salvaged resources and loot abundance by A LOT. So much that tier III-V can be outright ignored due to the fact that double clearing a smaller quest is fast (less than 1 hour) grants around 5000 dukes when selling salvaged stuff and we get the reward on top of it.

I'll take more POIS over double clearing any time. I can ALSO see them never fixing it, because the thought process of it is equal to leaving the dev console ingame: "yo, don't do it if you don't like it duh" + [instert willpower comment here]  :boxing2: . 

 
Blake_ said:
I'll take more POIS over double clearing any time. I can ALSO see them never fixing it, because the thought process of it is equal to leaving the dev console ingame: "yo, don't do it if you don't like it duh" + [instert willpower comment here]  :boxing2: . 
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I'm pretty sure the problem is that there are no easy solutions to solve the issue of double clearing. One of the reasons for the POIs resetting on quest start is to prevent people on multiplayer servers from getting screwed over. The initial design was for players to get the loot from both the loot room and the trader reward. In a MP game the only way to guarantee this is to reset the POI. The other issue is that there could be problems completing a quest in a partially destroyed POI. If there was an easy solution to this that worked for both SP and MP, I'm pretty sure it would already be in the game.

 
Kosmic Kerman said:
I'm pretty sure the problem is that there are no easy solutions to solve the issue of double clearing. One of the reasons for the POIs resetting on quest start is to prevent people on multiplayer servers from getting screwed over. The initial design was for players to get the loot from both the loot room and the trader reward. In a MP game the only way to guarantee this is to reset the POI. The other issue is that there could be problems completing a quest in a partially destroyed POI. If there was an easy solution to this that worked for both SP and MP, I'm pretty sure it would already be in the game.
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The issue can be solved by coding in all the edge cases ( passerby accidental clearing, destroyed POI, etc) . A lot of work I know, but it will improve the game.

When the code is in, they will have the improved mechanic forever and we will not get the same issue in a future game. Dungeon clearing has to be singular. 

The event system can solve all of this things by respawning zds or quest-related people owning the lost/destroyed quest items. The event system can also solve invulnerable buildings by respawning a generic quest giver and restoring its quest states for each player.

So I think this is an interesting system to look forward to. At the end of the day, MM and The Fun Pimp make all the calls.

 
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