PC Alpha 19 Dev Diary

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from patch to patch i got the same situation, late game stage zombies too weak.

What if zombies HP and damage increased with game stage?

e.g.

Stage - HP | Damage

Player is under 5 level - 100% | 100%

First GS - 125% | 100%

Second GS - 150% | 175%

Third GS - 175% | 350%

Fourth GS - 200% | 500%

 
Kosmic Kerman said:
The Devs have already discussed this. It's unlikely to change. Also "kills immersion" is an overused argument that I imagine most Devs completely tune out.
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Yeah but try to use this argument when you want to kill a bear. Oh it will come to you, no problem. Well thats the thing I would like to avoid you know? And as Str guy I do not have much ranged options.

 
And for some reasons, critical hits too OP for my opinion

Max critical chance might be 7.5 or 10%

Blow up zombies flesh it's cool, but this ability looking better on close range weapons, like knife, machete, shovel (yeah! it's OP weapon!), or steel knuckles

 
Onarr said:
Yeah but try to use this argument when you want to kill a bear. Oh it will come to you, no problem. Well thats the thing I would like to avoid you know? And as Str guy I do not have much ranged options.
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Is there anything more pathetic than a STR player complaining about his weak shotgun? 😆

 
MechanicalLens said:
You'll be fine. ;)

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yeah ill be fine with Q6 combat shotgun 200HP and kickass armor. The shotgun doing no damage on range is stupid. Why not use falloff damage for it instead? 5m full dmg, 5-10m 75% dmg 10-15 50% dmg

meganoth said:
Is there anything more pathetic than a STR player complaining about his weak shotgun? 😆
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I almost never use my shotgun. Only for instances when I need to kill something from range. Even large lvl 5 PoI room I go in melee with moonshine. Thats why I was so suprised I spent almost half my ammo on trying to kill Princess from top of the hole. Like WTF? Until now I never realized I did no dmg at all. I just though they buffed her HP.

 
Onarr said:
yeah ill be fine with Q6 combat shotgun 200HP and kickass armor. The shotgun doing no damage on range is stupid. Why not use falloff damage for it instead? 5m full dmg, 5-10m 75% dmg 10-15 50% dmg
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Once you put points into the shotgun perk you'll be decapitating their heads a good portion of the time. I've hunted bears in A19 before with a level 2 or 3 pump shotgun (and on foot), about 130 health, and with subpar armor, and even with only 3 points into Shotgun Messiah I was taking off their heads about one in every five shots.

Honestly, if shotguns had more range, they'd just outclass every other gun. If you're so worried about bears, carry a sniper rifle or a marksman rifle with you. Even unperked they can take down bears with ease, since you're at a distance. Keep it in your vehicle exclusively for hunting; that's what I always do as a shotgun build, since the pellets end up eviscerating the carcass anyway.

 
Onarr said:
I almost never use my shotgun. Only for instances when I need to kill something from range. Even large lvl 5 PoI room I go in melee with moonshine. Thats why I was so suprised I spent almost half my ammo on trying to kill Princess from top of the hole. Like WTF? Until now I never realized I did no dmg at all. I just though they buffed her HP.
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I think all NPCs in the game have telltale signs they are getting hit. The absence of those signs should have been a hint.

 
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MechanicalLens said:
Once you put points into the shotgun perk you'll be decapitating their heads a good portion of the time. I've hunted bears in A19 before with a level 2 or 3 pump shotgun (and on foot), about 130 health, and with subpar armor, and even with only 3 points into Shotgun Messiah I was taking off their heads about one in every five shots.

Honestly, if shotguns had more range, they'd just outclass every other gun. If you're so worried about bears, carry a sniper rifle or a marksman rifle with you. Even unperked they can take down bears with ease, since you're at a distance. Keep it in your vehicle exclusively for hunting; that's what I always do as a shotgun build, since the pellets end up eviscerating the carcass anyway.
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Personally I believe shotgun are way OP in this game and have a bit too much range. But that just my opinion. 

Ill still use it if it fits a build I’m doing but if I’m building something else it (which I usually am) the shotgun won’t be used. And I do just fine without it. 

 
Yopo said:
Personally I believe shotgun are way OP in this game and have a bit too much range. But that just my opinion. 

Ill still use it if it fits a build I’m doing but if I’m building something else it (which I usually am) the shotgun won’t be used. And I do just fine without it. 
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I think the current range is fine, that being 4-5 blocks for maximum effectiveness. I'm pretty sure the auto shotty has less range than the pump, but I could be incorrect about that.

 
hiemfire said:
Bull. The density of the bone between the eye and the brain is thick enough to stop a .22 lr and there is allot more than just hide between the heart and the surface of the chest. Are you sure you aren't conflating .22 mag (rimfire or centerfire) with .22 lr?
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Elephant skulls are just like basically all skulls, they are thin behind the eyes and by the ears.  A .22lr can punch through the thin part of a skull

And no, all videos I linked are .22lr.  .22lr can punch through steel, cast iron, wood, denim, car doors, flesh etc way, way better than people seem to think, just google ".22lr Penetration test" and you'll find hundreds of videos of people shooting just about anything you can think of with a .22

People are probably getting tired of off topic posts about elephants though.

 
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The issue is that the IRL weakness of the shotgun isn't really an issue in 7 Days to Die -- namely, the weight and bulk of shotgun ammunition, and the fact of reloading the pump shotgun goes way too quickly because they don't simulate the tube, it's always just an animation of loading only 2 rounds and you're fully topped off.

So if you're not hindered by the weight and bulk of the ammo, and you reload it basically instantly compared to IRL, of course the shotgun is going to be god tier.

There is a reason a lot of guys when pressed would take something like an Remington 870 or Mossberg 590 in those "If you only had 1 gun" videos.

But it's incredibly jarring to shoot at a zombie and have nothing happen at all because he's just barely beyond some arbitrary range limit.  And not only is there a limit but it's also hard to tell when a zombie is within that limit or not.  I'd be satisfied with damage fall off, and I understand that a realistic simulation of a shotgun would indeed make it the best weapon in almost every videogame, because almost every videogame fight happens within 100 feet unless you're playing ARMA or something.

 
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On the other hand damage fall off means you never find out that you are shooting that gun at the wrong range and wasting ammo. The same happens now in melee, I'm never really sure I'm hitting the zombies correctly because a glancing hit does make them react too. Someone who doesn't know about glancing hits might get the impression that melee is totally useless because he needs 12 hits for a basic zombie, never realizing that most of his hits just make minimal damage.

 
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meganoth said:
On the other hand damage fall off means you never find out that you are shooting that gun at the wrong range and wasting ammo. The same happens now in melee, I'm never really sure I'm hitting the zombies correctly because a glancing hit does make them react too. Someone who doesn't know about glancing hits might get the impression that melee is totally useless because he needs 12 hits for a basic zombie, never realizing that most of his hits just make minimal damage.
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how is doing damage wasting ammo? Not doing damage is wasting ammo, which is what happens now. Falloff damage is how it is done in majority FPS games, why not use a best practice that stood the test of time? Its also logical, so avarage player understands, that if he shoots from far away, it might not do as much dmg. Also when you need 2 headshots instead of normal 1 they will quickly catch on. Shotguns not doing damage after very short range is ridiculous. 

 
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Onarr said:
how is doing damage wasting ammo? Not doing damage is wasting ammo, which is what happens now. Falloff damage is how it is done in majority FPS games, why not use a best practice that stood the test of time? Shotguns not doing damage after very short range is ridiculous. 
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Pretty sure not doing damage is just gonna let that ammo pile up in your inventory so it’s actually saving ammo rather than wasting ammo. 

Heres another idea. How about we leave those annoying real world fall off range damage statistics in the real world and not bring them into the relaxing world of games. 

Also if shot gun arnt doing the damage you want at range, have you tried getting closer to your target to get that damage 

 
Khalagar said:
I just don't like the dangerous mentality people have that .22lr are just bb guns lol. You could do a LOT of damage really quickly with a .22lr even at long range
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+.22

My parents had some neighbors just down the road who had to talk to some other neighbors because the side of their house was getting bullet holes in it.  Their response was "But it's just a .22"

Idiots.

 
Onarr said:
Not doing damage is wasting ammo, which is what happens now. Falloff damage is how it is done in majority FPS games, why not use a best practice that stood the test of time? Its also logical, so avarage player understands, that if he shoots from far away, it might not do as much dmg.
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All the guns use falloff damage. Even the journal entry points that out.

 
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