PC Alpha 19 Dev Diary

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Khalagar said:
This is why we have to use "weasel words" because if I say "Nobody picks Charismatic Nature" I'll get 10 posts saying "This guy who has 0.000124 minutes in the game picked it one time!!!!" and it's like "Uh okay yeah I didn't literally mean nobody, I mean so few people that the  few people who pick it don't matter statistically"
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It's a tactic used by people who know they're wrong.  Instead of challenging your reasoning for why it's a bad perk or explaining how they feel it's valuable they target your hyperbole about "nobody" picking it and accuse you of arguing in bad faith.  There's actually a term for this style of argumentation where you take a clearly illogical conclusion and work backwards to try to justify it through fallacious argumentation.  It's called פלפול

 
@madmole

are there any plans on changing the model of the zombie bear? in both sound and look.

Argument

now the only way you can tell a zombie bear is a zombie bear is that. its darker and it has a very hard to see rib cage showing!

now i know TFP can do better. Take the zombie dog! it is a perfect mix of a animal and a zombie in both sound and model and while the model is outdated, it works nicely, with the many Scars, bites, teeth, ribs, and its sound thats a dog mixed with a zombie is perfect! and it feels like alot of effort was put in it.

then you have the zombie bear! while the size is fine, it just looks odd, the Zombie bear much like the demolisher is unnaturaly Dark, like if you put Black dye on it. it could still be brown but maybe alot of hair is missing showing skin and flesh!, the face looks just like a bear, no skull like face, no rotting eyes, nothing! the only thing that makes it seam like a zombie is the small rib cage! and the sound? its just a bear. the zombie dog is perfect with sound sense again it sounds like a mix of a zombie and a dog, zombie bear sounds just like bear!

i don't know how to describe it

MechanicalLens said:
Even Sham is superior. Fight me.
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but can you make a sham sandwich? 

 
Forgotten Memes said:
Not as annoying as people who ignore what feedback is there because they don't want to accept it.   There is nothing false about saying "this is the feedback I'm seeing from others" unless you're trying to claim that it's an outright lie and those who are on forums or posting videos are saying something completely different. 

You'll get more respect by saying you simply don't want to make changes than try to imply there is some silent majority who secretly agrees with you.
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There is one thing to be said, and it's regarding the analytics. Sure, 11% of players might choose Charismatic Nature in multiplayer (pulling that number out of my hat), but there is no way to identify any regrets on that decision; the vast majority of that 11% might choose that perk, regret it, and then never play the game again or at least for the remaining duration of that alpha, for unrelated reasons, and yet the analytics remain. Coming from me, I say tread carefully; use it as a rough guide, and not as instructions.

 
Forgotten Memes said:
It's a tactic used by people who know they're wrong.  Instead of challenging your reasoning for why it's a bad perk or explaining how they feel it's valuable they target your hyperbole about "nobody" picking it and accuse you of arguing in bad faith.  There's actually a term for this style of argumentation where you take a clearly illogical conclusion and work backwards to try to justify it through fallacious argumentation.  It's called פלפול
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Problem is that I didn't use that as a tactic. I made a joke about it in the first line. Then I presented a counter-argument. In follow up posts I discussed asymmetrical design and how not every path to victory needs to represent optimal dps for horde night. 

But there is another kind of tactic used by people who know they are wrong and that is known as ad hominem. Your follow up posts have not addressed my counterpoints or faatal's or madmole's views at all but have simply been focused on me being intellectually dishonest in your view. The other tactic you used which I joked about was to claim the unknown majority of players for your own personal set of preferences.

 
Forgotten Memes said:
Not as annoying as people who ignore what feedback is there because they don't want to accept it.   There is nothing false about saying "this is the feedback I'm seeing from others" unless you're trying to claim that it's an outright lie and those who are on forums or posting videos are saying something completely different. 
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I agree that there is nothing false about saying that. But you went beyond that. Also disagreeing with feedback or at least not fully accepting it right away is not the same thing as ignoring it. Madmole already stated there is still work to be done with Agility, Intellect, and Perception. So obviously he is not ignoring feedback about those builds. But he isn't going to just change it completely based upon your preferences. 

Forgotten Memes said:
You'll get more respect by saying you simply don't want to make changes than try to imply there is some silent majority who secretly agrees with you.
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I know right....? "Trying to imply" is weak sauce in your book. You have to just come out and post your claim to the majority--straight up like you did. That's the trick.

 
e1ghtbit said:
Hey Madmole, 

Do you think you guys will be using the data being collected from this alpha to adjust perks?  Didn't I read that you're using a company to collect and aggregate datat? 
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I would like to think we would sit on the data and you would start to see changes by A20.

 
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