PC Alpha 19 Dev Diary

[madmole]

Thze problem with current system is you have skills under trees that makes no sense. Players are complaining because if you like to mine you have to go STR , and always play that way. What does cooking have to do with STR - you stir the stew quicker?  

Just make a "general" tree where you have the basic skills everyone is using - like cooking, Living of the land, mining, hunter perks, leaky guts... it would make much more sense and players would have many more options to play around with combat/supplement skills. Personally I always end up with STR since I like to build and therefore I need mining - so since I go deep in STR I never feel the need to use any other tree - other than just to "make me play a different way". STR is totally OP with Sledge and shotgun perks, mining, Trex... no other tree comes close to STR.

Just separate weapons perks from General skills. Make the leveling system less dull - you made a great game, just fix the whole leveling system, which is usually one of biggest parts of good games.

The idea is to make a fairly interesting build neatly governed by one attribute. If you want to be a jack of all trades noone is stopping you, but it takes a little longer to get really good at everything. Any strongman or bodybuilder knows cooking, macros etc. It makes more sense there than any other skill because food is health. Perception guy doesn't get hurt much he uses high range weapons. Agility doesn't need to heal, he is never seen. Fortitude has farming, and damage resistance perks, int guy doesn't get hurt either he uses technology to do his combat and has medicine to heal as well.

 

[Trunks_Budo]

The idea is to make a fairly interesting build neatly governed by one attribute. If you want to be a jack of all trades noone is stopping you, but it takes a little longer to get really good at everything. Any strongman or bodybuilder knows cooking, macros etc. It makes more sense there than any other skill because food is health. Perception guy doesn't get hurt much he uses high range weapons. Agility doesn't need to heal, he is never seen. Fortitude has farming, and damage resistance perks, int guy doesn't get hurt either he uses technology to do his combat and has medicine to heal as well.

You are falsely assuming that agility should be about stealth.

Nobody likes stealth, literally nobody, and you're desperate to pretend it belongs. Stealth means nothing, when you have scripted zombies falling through ceilings, immediately detecting you regardless of your "stealth".

 

[MechanicalLens]

You are falsely assuming that agility should be about stealth.

Nobody likes stealth, literally nobody, and you're desperate to pretend it belongs.

Did you ask every member of the 7D2D community if they like stealth or not? Do you have a petition next to you that you can show us? No? Well regardless, there's no reason to be as toxic as this. Maybe you woke up on the wrong side of the bed, so I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt. I would recommend you take some time off, cool off, and come back when or if you're willing to communicate to the rest of us in a civil and adult manner.

 

[Phoenixshade35]

You are falsely assuming that agility should be about stealth.

Nobody likes stealth, literally nobody, and you're desperate to pretend it belongs.

I wouldn't say no one likes stealth, i have found stealth appealing in certain aspects even for fun

As far as the attribute debates you directed me too, i admit some of the stuff is true in the arguement, but i do think it is fairly balanced right now, i never perk into stealth myself but i look at it as more points into what i want.

To the comment about master chef being weird in strength, well to remain strong you gotta cook awesome stuff, somehow it makes sense to me beyond words.

 

[Gr.o.m.]

So 9 points, 4 of which are free, by level 5 you can achieve awesome miner status. I don't understand why this seems so painful to people. You have the rest of the game to develop whatever skills you want, and can get cooking and heavy armor too if you choose, because you are already semi invested in STR.

You are absolutly right and that is a problem. Why should I invest points into perks like lockpicking oder lucky looter. You want to open a safe, get miner 69er and bash them open. no need to fidle with lockpicks one pickaxe to rule them all and it gets the job faster done. Why perking into lucky looter, get miner 69er and motherlode and get a load of levels in no time and so game stage, which results in good loot. Instead of perking into lucky looter and get ...a long time nothing... and then probably a bit more.

You also get a nice damagebuff to your blunderbuss and shotguns, the absolute best weapons low- and midgame. 170+ damage for a doublebarrel in comparison to 80+ damage for a huntingrifle and the rate of fire of a doublebarrel is far better. Beside from the fact that you can even find them early game or get them as a questreward and not have to buy them from the trader.

 

[madmole]

Go back to page 494 and 495 for what was discussed yesterday, for what madmole essentially entirely missed the point of with his apparent lack of ability to admit the system's flawed and in need of rework.

Because 1 guy is crying we reinvent a system? I've played 1000's of hours over every different skill and it is fine. If it is so bad why are review scores and player counts at all time highs? If I move perks under general, you still have to raise your "general" attribute and spend even more points getting what you want. And then all the other attributes lose a lot making them feel watered down and not worth it. There is nothing wrong with the system except the want your cake and eat it too people with zero patience don't like it. Double your XP so you can have all the perks you want.

There is nothing wrong with strengths and weaknesses. Go find schematics for cooking, you don't need the perks. Mining isn't required, you just aren't aware of all the ways around it or unwilling to use them, or too cheap to pay the price because you can't have your cake. Wait to mine until you find an auger or you are level 70 and have 20 perk points just sitting there you don't need and buy it then. HARD CHOICES are a better game design than "everything convenient". Gamplay is a better design than any realism or logic argument as well.

 

[ParadiseLostUK]

You are falsely assuming that agility should be about stealth.

Nobody likes stealth, literally nobody, and you're desperate to pretend it belongs. Stealth means nothing, when you have scripted zombies falling through ceilings, immediately detecting you regardless of your "stealth".

You are literally wrong that literally nobody likes stealth. 

 

[Trunks_Budo]

All I know is that one would be a mentally deficient fool to specialize in stealth when you can instead walk into a poi with an SMG-5 and a desert vulture and a machete and eliminate every threat with cold calculated efficiency, using run & gun to reload while sprinting to safety. And good luck using your stealth build on BM night I am accepting the role of public enemy to say what has to be said. I'm unsubscribing from this forum so you guys can talk to your wall.

 

[Adam the Waster]

 

[Trunks_Budo]

Because 1 guy is crying we reinvent a system? I've played 1000's of hours over every different skill and it is fine. If it is so bad why are review scores and player counts at all time highs? If I move perks under general, you still have to raise your "general" attribute and spend even more points getting what you want. And then all the other attributes lose a lot making them feel watered down and not worth it. There is nothing wrong with the system except the want your cake and eat it too people with zero patience don't like it. Double your XP so you can have all the perks you want.

There is nothing wrong with strengths and weaknesses. Go find schematics for cooking, you don't need the perks. Mining isn't required, you just aren't aware of all the ways around it or unwilling to use them, or too cheap to pay the price because you can't have your cake. Wait to mine until you find an auger or you are level 70 and have 20 perk points just sitting there you don't need and buy it then. HARD CHOICES are a better game design than "everything convenient". Gamplay is a better design than any realism or logic argument as well.

There's a difference between hard choices, and pidgeonholing me into agility because Run and Gun is the one single superior perk that everyone should acquire. Other builds are irrelevant, yet they contain fun things. Hence, everybody is always missing out; Hence, psycho-logical (Word gets censored) manipulation of the player into repeated playthroughs. And that's the only reason why you guys have so much playtime, because all the idiots who can't see the end from the beginning just keep walking in vain hoping for a fulfillment they're probably never gonna get from your game. If games were rated based on how often they're played, Candy Crush would be a better game than 7 days to die. Doesn't change the fact that it's just an absurd dopamine generator for wine moms who lack the inner resources to play something more demanding. I could never play anything other than agility now because I'm on day 28, haven't died, and I'm STILL just running around and gunning/throwing molotovs on every bloodmoon. Tower defense game? Not if you spec agility, because it's the only tree where you can sprint and reload.

 

[madmole]

You are falsely assuming that agility should be about stealth.

Nobody likes stealth, literally nobody, and you're desperate to pretend it belongs. Stealth means nothing, when you have scripted zombies falling through ceilings, immediately detecting you regardless of your "stealth".

Nobody? I'm sorry did some fictitious organization recruit you to be their president and you are speaking on behalf of the majority of the player base? No, so calm down and relax. It isn't gold yet but we're not going to reinvent it for A19. I know a lot of people who like stealth. It will be much cooler when bandits are in.

If run and gun is such a must have I can always make a sub perk under every other weapon skill that lets you have it, or couple it with the attribute. So your running and gunning gets better as you raise your attribute.

 

 

[Trunks_Budo]

Nobody? I'm sorry did some fictitious organization recruit you to be their president and you are speaking on behalf of the majority of the player base? No, so calm down and relax. It isn't gold yet but we're not going to reinvent it for A19. I know a lot of people who like stealth. It will be much cooler when bandits are in.

If run and gun is such a must have I can always make a sub perk under every other weapon skill that lets you have it, or couple it with the attribute. So your running and gunning gets better as you raise your attribute.

 

Finally some actual acknowledgement of what the hell I was saying that isn't caked in thoughts of nothing being wrong. THANK YOU.

Seriously you're the one spear-heading this project. Don't spear-head it into oblivion. You know... Like spears in multiplayer right now, vanishing when thrown. Don't make your game vanish like that with pride. Accept the fact that I know what the @%$*#! I'm talking about when I raise a concern. You said "Nice to see people enjoying the stealth build!" to me the other day. Funny thing is, I was pure agility, zero stealth, totally overpowered, and scratching my head.

 

[MechanicalLens]

Nobody? I'm sorry did some fictitious organization recruit you to be their president and you are speaking on behalf of the majority of the player base? No, so calm down and relax. It isn't gold yet but we're not going to reinvent it for A19. I know a lot of people who like stealth. It will be much cooler when bandits are in.

If run and gun is such a must have I can always make a sub perk under every other weapon skill that lets you have it, or couple it with the attribute. So your running and gunning gets better as you raise your attribute.

 

Just ignore him madmole. He's not worth it.

(Every opinion is welcome here, Trunks_Budo. Unless you're being disrespectful, offensive, and a general @#&%@%$ in the process. We're all adults here, except for Adam (possibly others). Act like one. Please.)

(Also, Run & Gun isn't "needed"; trust me, I know, because I go complete Rambo style whenever I see zombies. Not once have I been tempted by quicker reload times when sprinting, and I've been doing just fine.  )

 

[PoloPoPo]

Had to start a new savegame as Navezgane simply felt too boring for me. Not too bad though, starting a new game is pretty exciting and renders putting new ideas into practice possible.

Two things:

1) Have tried putting brightness on 15 % as advertised by some guys here due to too much light at night. As I have said this makes the game in general much much darker and to be honest, it looks stupid. With A19 the lighting at daytime looks really awesome on standard brightness, setting that to 15 % takes away a lot of the beauty. Won't do that. Guess I have to live with too bright nights for the moment.

2) With my new savegame on a custom random world I wanted to try an underground base from day 1. However, digging holes is pretty weird on that map. The alignment for holes is always angular to anything else above ground. See my attached image where the wooden block can be placed as a square but the holes appear as a rhombus. Digging that underground base like that is really bad as I end up hitting wrong blocks all the time due to that weird alignment of holes. I could not even place a ladder in that shaft as I wanted; had to put the ladders diagonally in a corner. Why is that?

 

[Trunks_Budo]

Just ignore him madmole. He's not worth it.

(Every opinion is welcome here, Trunks_Budo. Unless you're being disrespectful, offensive, and a general @#&%@%$ in the process. We're all adults here, except for Adam (possibly others). Act like one.)

Snowflake. Getting my point across the nice way didn't work, I had no choice. It was be heard or be ignored. I chose to be heard.

 

[Infected226]

i complain a lot but trunks u taking the cake here. I am gonna start calling the male version of karens trunks now.

 

[madmole]

"Honestly, I would be satisfied if these following perks did not have attributes gating my investment into them: Run and Gun, Miner 69er, Motherlode, Living off the Land, The Huntsman, and Master Chef. Parkour is an exclusively awesome thing in agility, leave it there, leave it gated. But those other skills I listed are too universally useful to gate for single-players, and should be accessible to all players regardless of specialization. Boom, I'm satisfied if this is the case. Leave attribute gates, but make key things more accessible etc. That's just my opinion. I feel it could be a win for both single players and multiplayers, because two characters in different attributes could still mine together, hunt together, tend to gardens, cook while traveling and camping out, etc; And that form of cooperation is what makes an in-game server community or township feel more real. It is possible to have TOO MUCH privatization involved. There should be a Survival Basics attribute, with no gates, just useful perks. That's my ultimate solution, and that's the note I'm ending on I think. I hope the devs entertain the possibility, I know it sucks when somebody criticizes your baby. I speak all of this from a place of love for your baby, devs. Just so you know. I love it."

Then there were plenty of people who came forth and agreed, yeah, leveling is janky right now. <deleted>. There is no error with progression, progression is fine. But what you ACTUALLY unlock WHILE progressing is broke as hell. You basically have to take a 15 point detour to get RUN AND GUN, if you're specialized in anything but agility? For real? Yeah that's clearly fine. It's not like 15 levels is an entire week or two of grinding kills away, or anything. No matter which specialization you choose, you're just always getting screwed. That's what this current iteration offers. Nothing more.

With agility goggles it is only 5 points to hit level 2 of run and gun, which should be pretty good. Why does that feel like a hard detour for you? Or do you feel you need all 3 ranks so you can game the hordes properly? It is behind agility for a reason, his firepower isn't that great. So you want it to be super accessible so you can be OP with whatever weapon you want.

If we create a general perk tree, you'll still have to pump points into general, making everyone forced into the same situation we already have only worse, now there is another attribute you have to elevate just to get into cooking, mining, and whatever else we put in there, and then we water down the other perk trees and make purist builds that much harder.

 

 

[dcsobral]

Nobody? I'm sorry did some fictitious organization recruit you to be their president and you are speaking on behalf of the majority of the player base? No, so calm down and relax. It isn't gold yet but we're not going to reinvent it for A19. I know a lot of people who like stealth. It will be much cooler when bandits are in.

If run and gun is such a must have I can always make a sub perk under every other weapon skill that lets you have it, or couple it with the attribute. So your running and gunning gets better as you raise your attribute.

 

It is definitely not true that no one likes stealth, but Attack sleeper volumes completely negates all of the points and equipment you have invested in it, and Agility has the undesirable distinction of being the only attribute without any non-combat survival skills.

 

[Trunks_Budo]

I would assume they wouldn't need a manager for you, just like a Roland or something.

Roland is thoughtful and typically tries to reason with a person. Just the other day someone mentioned a genuine concern with the lack of transparency in progression, something about having a steel tool too early in the game, and while everybody else was chewing that person out for "flaming the forums with unwarranted hate for the game", Roland was actively saying "no I totally get your point, and it should probably be a part of the game, that transparency for progression, advising players on what is and isn't a good idea early-on". 

 

[Infected226]

Who has the time to come and complain here? There is plenty of 7 days left to play and explore, I am only on day 10 and loving it all.