PC Alpha 19 Dev Diary

[toores]

What map you playing?

Random gen, vanilla 7 days...

 

[Syrex]

@madmole @tfp so far our (11 people - dedi-server run on my machine) playthrough has been pretty smooth. Nomad, 120min days, 24 bloodmoon count - everything else vanilla; we're on d45. Had a couple hiccups 1) placing a block on various random ground blocks would cause the block placed to just shatter. There was nothing on the ground (stone or otherwise) to cause shatter. It fixed itself over time for some reason. 2) a couple concrete blocks would just nottttt dry.. Tried various concrete upgrading methods (upgrade from wood, upgrade from rebar, upgrade from flagstone) and eventually i would find the block that would dry -annoying but it only happens 1 out of 100 blocks.

My daughter has been playing side by side with me on horde nights and her machine is pretty potato-y but she was able to actually maintain (connection/no-crashes/ minimal lag spikes -previous Alphas not so much). I did a massive upgrade to base before the d42 horde because previous horde nights they just kept pummeling my platform, only my daughter didnt participate for d42 so i was solo -- well, it was too easy now LOL. Without her extra mobs I think i did overkill on modifications, they didnt reach my platform but once or twice.

Currently am lvl 62 - gamestage 127. Normally I am deathless in a playthrough, but I have 2 deaths to my name. Day1 feral at night, and Day 2 to a spider zombie cuz i was greedy and was heavily overencumbered so couldnt get away and it hit me for more than i was hitting it LOL. Decided to not use spikes this playthrough so I've been questing it up for dukes and bought 12 shotgun turrets to help with protection - again, without my daughter there for the extra mobs - it was overkill lol.. Does turrets count as electrical "traps" for the advanced engineering xp?

 

[Laz Man]

Random gen, vanilla 7 days...

Yah, the shotgun messiah and shamway foods T5 POIs greatly out number the others (e.g. skyscrapers, hospital, etc.)  Probably why those come up on the quest list more frequently in RWG games.

 

[Kosmic Kerman]

Yah, the shotgun messiah and shamway foods T5 POIs greatly out number the others (e.g. skyscrapers, hospital, etc.)  Probably why those come up on the quest list more frequently...

Speaking of frequent POIs, I have about 5 Bob's Boars POIs in the Forest Biome. Every time I explore the map, I find another one.

 

[Worrun]

something food something

Mr Mad Mole, I have a question.

There has been a lot of stir in the community regarding the rapid depletion of the food bar, are there any plans to tweak this as experimental moves forward, and are you guys aware of this 'issue' that a good chunk of the player base are having? Example eating 20 tins of tuna to fill your food bar, then it being empty and starving again within a couple of hours

(disclaimer i have no issue keeping my food maxxed out and i am the groups farmer and manage to keep everyone well-fed with spaghetti and meat stew without issues, but i see what the people are saying and agree that it needs tweaking)

Hopefully this disclaimer will protect me from SOME of the closed-minded people that just attack everyone with a suggestion/opinion/question

Thanks for your time.

 

[jasonsaffle13]

I had an odd issue while placing wooden bars. I could not see them I could hear them when I rotate. When I move the placement up or down I can see the bars then they work normally.

 

[toores]

Instead of letting out steam, care to elaborate what exactly you dont like on them?

Its not that the game forces you to do them in any way.

For starters, tier 4 is better. If you do the one that has the big chest in the end, you get pretty much the same loot in less time. In my last factory run, the zombies kept falling to previous floors. Finding and killing them took way too long. When I finally finished, I had to drive back to base because I was starving to death before I was able to go to main loot. I started with full bars, and had even some stuff with me. (bad luch with food RNG, but still...)

So basically they are zero fun. A complete opposite of tier 4 ques, which are super fun. Even though you still do some familiar buildings, the pacing and length is nice and the reward is adequate for the time spent.

And as Khalagar said, for some reason, the quest POIs tend to repeat. Even the tier 4 repeated, which is funny because there are more suitable POIs on the map and even in the town nex to my main trader. I had 2 business strip buildings in my main town. Half of my tier 4 quests were in this POI (two locations but same building). Old victorian house was at least 3 times. Only the very last (tenth) quest was gun store, a new location. But after taking the special quest to see the next trader, I'm locked out of choosing tier 4 quests.

Now I have shamway factory, gun factory and brick apt building. And after doing the gun factory and waiting for the  stuff to refresh, I got the gun factory again. After doing some other stuff and waiting for quests to refresh i think the hospital also opened up but after doing the gun factory twice, I never want to do another "clear" quest again, so all tier 5's are out.

The game does not force me to do ANYTHING but quests are fun and the fun POIs are in the game. I would like to get quest there but after advancing to tier 5 I can't. I waited for the quest to reset and checked two traders (two towns) and since I got the business strip from one trader and old victorian house from the other, I did the later for the 4th time. Yaay! At least it didn't take forever to complete. But I can't choose or do multiple tier 4s anymore because I get 3 tier 5's, ONE tier 4 and one tier 3. Tier 3's don't have good loot for late game and if i get another business strip, I have to wait for the reset again.

Btw, quest reward are the main way to aquire good tools and gear. If I excluded all the quest rewards, my character would be so much worse shape. Any type of mining would be unbarable since I don't like STR tree and low quality tools take soo much longer to breaks/mine stuff. I have purple iron pickaxe and I'm still holding off from doing some rework for the POI i'm living in. Even with coffee and food buffs, it takes long time to break concrete stuff.

I play with loot respawn turned off so if I can't get quests to fun POIs, my map is "barren" after a while...

 

[Khalagar]

There has been a lot of stir in the community regarding the rapid depletion of the food bar, are there any plans to tweak this as experimental moves forward, and are you guys aware of this 'issue' that a good chunk of the player base are having? Example eating 20 tins of tuna to fill your food bar, then it being empty and starving again within a couple of hours

This is intended behavior, they want you to be investing in cooking and making actual food. It's completely pointless to eat anything cheaper to make than Bacon and Eggs. Cans of Tuna only give you 5 food each I believe, and if you make the mistake of trying to mine before you get an auger, you'll burn that entire food bar in a minute or two. I burned like 80 food in 6 or 7 minutes of mining

I've been testing mining to see if it's feasible, but it's straight yikes atm. I was lucky and was able to buy a level 2 Auger by like day 18 and immediately trashed my level 4 Iron and level 4 steel picks. Even with decent food and both blackstrap coffee + normal coffee, you'll spend like a solid 2-3 minutes out of your 10 minute rock breaker out of stamina, and you'll eat your entire camps food store in the process.

To have any remote chance of mining without the Auger you need like Master Chef 2 or 3 out 4 so you can  make food out of the resources you wish you had, Living off the land so you can cry about not being able to afford enough farm plots to feed you, Miner 69 level 4 or 5 so you can break blocks and make level 5 tools, Max Sex Rex, Iron Gut maxed out etc. So basically, by the time you are level 30 and start seeing augers, you'll be able to mine with a pick =/

The people experiencing a "bug" were likely being told by the game to stop trying to use iron or steel tools and wait for the auger. Even dinking on a safe or digging out cobblestone / cement bags  will smash your stamina and noticeably lower your food bar if you are  trying to collect very many. I checked mine and went from 81 food to like 60~ish food just opening a hardened chest with an iron pick axe

This is the first alpha I've ever played where I don't have a mineshaft to bedrock, which is where I normally live and something I've usually got by like day 4 or 5. It would take a month to dig to bedrock with the current stamina system, and you'd need every perk listed above maxed out along with a chest FILLED with nothing but meat stew to stand any chance of making it alive.

 

[SnowDog1942]

This is intended behavior, they want you to be investing in cooking and making actual food. It's completely pointless to eat anything cheaper to make than Bacon and Eggs. Cans of Tuna only give you 5 food each I believe, and if you make the mistake of trying to mine before you get an auger, you'll burn that entire food bar in a minute or two. I burned like 80 food in 6 or 7 minutes of mining

I've been testing mining to see if it's feasible, but it's straight yikes atm. I was lucky and was able to buy a level 2 Auger by like day 18 and immediately trashed my level 4 Iron and level 4 steel picks. Even with decent food and both blackstrap coffee + normal coffee, you'll spend like a solid 2-3 minutes out of your 10 minute rock breaker out of stamina, and you'll eat your entire camps food store in the process.

To have any remote chance of mining without the Auger you need like Master Chef 2 or 3 out 4 so you can  make food out of the resources you wish you had, Living off the land so you can cry about not being able to afford enough farm plots to feed you, Miner 69 level 4 or 5 so you can break blocks and make level 5 tools, Max Sex Rex, Iron Gut maxed out etc. So basically, by the time you are level 30 and start seeing augers, you'll be able to mine with a pick =/

The people experiencing a "bug" were likely being told by the game to stop trying to use iron or steel tools and wait for the auger. Even dinking on a safe or digging out cobblestone / cement bags  will smash your stamina and noticeably lower your food bar if you are  trying to collect very many. I checked mine and went from 81 food to like 60~ish food just opening a hardened chest with an iron pick axe

This is the first alpha I've ever played where I don't have a mineshaft to bedrock, which is where I normally live and something I've usually got by like day 4 or 5. It would take a month to dig to bedrock with the current stamina system, and you'd need every perk listed above maxed out along with a chest FILLED with nothing but meat stew to stand any chance of making it alive.

Don't worry, it will be fixed whether its an actual issue or not (I haven't played A19 myself yet).   But TFP have a history of making experimental hard, then people whine and then it gets easy.  Trust me, they will ease up on it.

 

[Syrex]

wishing i could have stayed in t4 quest land, t5's 98% want shamway/shotgun corp offices and those are more painful than fun

 

[Dimpy]

Probably feels wrong, but it's an option to turn down the difficulty by a few notches and not buy any weapon perks.

 

[Khalagar]

Don't worry, it will be fixed whether its an actual issue or not (I haven't played A19 myself yet).   But TFP have a history of making experimental hard, then people whine and then it gets easy.  Trust me, they will ease up on it.

Not so much about it being too hard, as it just completely killing the mining play style. I like the added difficulty in A19, and the changes to try and make food perks worth considering are valid, but mining is in a really, really bad spot.  There's nothing "hard" about holding down M1 and mining down to bedrock, but it's not fun with the current stamina system where you spend ten times longer out of stamina than you do mining.

I said it before but, stamina as a system is never, ever fun to interact with, because stamina as a system is just "How often you can actually play the game". Play the game too much in too short of a time? Go sit in time out and think about what you did while it recharges with zero interaction from the player.

In 7 Days, normally on day 1, I would do my quest and go to the trader and then I would dig down about 10 blocks or so and dig out a little 7x7x3 temporary cave house. Then over the next few days I'd dig all the way to bedrock and start digging tunnels and hallways and rooms to live my Dwarven lifestyle

Good luck doing that in A19

 

[FileMachete]

Had a thought that might address, a wee bit, several recent posts; looting being unrewarding early on, mining being food expensive.

Add rare 'special' Iron Tools. Very low Stamina cost, but _not_ repairable. Basically an early game Legendary item.

(adjust Durability so a pickaxe could mine ~100? stone blocks, Fireaxe 15~25 1200hp trees.. reduce zombie damage on these so they're not OPd vs zeds)

Could also add items that have never been in loot before like Drawbridges, Wet Concrete blocks, Iron Bars, Level 3 Iron Doors/Hatches

 

[LilMissNorti]

Not sure if intended, but it certainly caused more than a few laughs on our server...but you can absolutely projectile launch a player with the robotic sledge used in the hand (even with player killing off). It doesn't appear to do damage...however you can be launched into the wall/dirt and vaulted to the surface or be launched into spikes resulting in deaths. The animation from the launched player were...interesting...with the camera staying put, the player character being ragdoll'd in the air, and their gun appearing to magically separate and fly off into space.

Possibly unrelated, but when this occurred, one of our players then started experiencing significant lag when using the M60 - this was corrected/fixed with a server reboot.

When I get on tonight I will make a video of it...cos it's stupid funny ^_^

 

[Blake_]

I've had issues with the modify option being gone one time I look at it and back when I look at it again.

I noticed that wrench bug too in a19. You can modify it by putting it in the belt, but not inside inventory slots. Even then, sometimes doesn't even work on the belt either (needs more investigation).

The bug probably has something to do with the options/display keys being too many for that item. Maybe the drop option could be culled in order to allow more important ones.

Temporary workaround: Move the wrench to the belt and it should allow you to modify it.

It is a very common bug because the wrench is used quite often.

Maybe @Gazz  could help with this issue because @Kinyajuu  or @faatal might be busy with  other magic bug stuff and not with the OCD crazy code stuff. Gazz is always to blame anyways. Too handsome to be a dev  :hat: .

 

[Jugginator]

Spoiler

Not so much about it being too hard, as it just completely killing the mining play style. I like the added difficulty in A19, and the changes to try and make food perks worth considering are valid, but mining is in a really, really bad spot.  There's nothing "hard" about holding down M1 and mining down to bedrock, but it's not fun with the current stamina system where you spend ten times longer out of stamina than you do mining.

I said it before but, stamina as a system is never, ever fun to interact with, because stamina as a system is just "How often you can actually play the game". Play the game too much in too short of a time? Go sit in time out and think about what you did while it recharges with zero interaction from the player.

Snipped the comment for space and put it under spoilers. So, they want you to use the various foods/drinks and your skill trees (in this case, str and sexual tyrannosaurus). They would have to balance the whole game around removing stamina for mining tools to prevent steel fortresses by day 7. So, I did some science on this.

ST = sex trex. C = coffee. B = beer. Times are until first swing out of stamina

1pt ST + stone axe = NA, can mine infinitely
1pt ST + iron pick = 16.62s | 22.56 w/C | 48.43 w/ C+B (here on out, |raw| |coffee| |coffee+beer|
1pt ST + steel pick = 11.22s| 13.94 | 21.91

3pt ST + iron pick = 24.52 | 1:07.17 | NA, infinite under C+B
3pt ST + steel pick - 17.14 | 27.83 | 1:35.44


So, yes you can still do your tunneling and dwarven-mode game-play: You just need to change from the days of infinite-stamina with no help ways from previous alphas . Adding points into ST, drinking some coffee will give you a large boost, adding beer makes it significantly more (and when you do run out of stamina, under these buffs you near-instantly refill). There are still ergonomic grips to add, another point into ST, food buffs, mega crush, hydration buffs to add to further increase your mining time. Now go eat, drink, and mine away.

 

[bdubyah]

I know the T5 quests have been an issue for people for a while. And even MM said they aren't focusing on T5 POIs, but rather more T4 ones. 

I think just having a bit better loot would help the factories be more worth it. Also, what about adding a few more T5s that are just smaller? Could also include the house that's in the south of Nav that has the bunker under it as a T5, if it isn't already. I know I've never been sent to it. 

Another option would be making T5 quests varied a bit. Maybe have it so you have to go clear 2 smaller POIs instead. Or even one that's normally a T2, but is now more severely infested. Or has a demolisher in it. Lol. 

 

[TPrice321]

Like I think we need a store all and store similar function, little things that make organizing easier.

You actually have the code to implement those buttons in the vanilla game dating back to A18.  They just need button art and to be placed in the inventory UI via a tiny bit of XML.   

The dev implemented Store All, Fill Existing Stacks (but not new stacks if it fills one totally), Store existing (including new stacks as needed), and a system to lock the first X slots of the backpack from being used by the rest of the storage buttons.

You are right that they are very handy when enabled by the little bit of missing XML.  

 

[madmole]

Tier 5 quests are horrible compared to tier 4 and now i only have 1 available until the trader resets. I seriously regret taking the last special trader quest. Any way to downgrade quests to TIER 4?

Couldn't there be sepparate menu for each tier? (with multiple quests for each tier)

I have loot respawn turned off and now I only get like 2 factories and one brick apt recycling - none of which I ever want to do again.

And on the same note, why do the same 4 POI's repeat if there are more options in the town?

We plan on some way to do lower tier quests in a future version.

I'm feeling weird. I'm pure agility, 4/5 in archery, pistols, and knife. I have 4/4 parkour and 3/3 run & gun. But the primary aspect of the tree, stealth, has virtually no appeal to me. It just feels strange lol, I'd rather walk into a POI with my level 5 SMG and pop headshot after headshot than waste time, money, and immersion sneaking around. I feel at conflict with myself over that aspect of these character builds. I think some things should have a separate list and should not be governed by attributes, primary things that every character can opt into regardless of attribute; Mining, stealth, farming, animal hunting and harvesting. I feel those aspects of the game should not be restricted to certain builds. I'd love it if I didn't have to wholly waste points into strength just to get into mining, you know?

I know MM likes the attribute system but it just seems like it's way too multiplayer centric, and doesn't cater to the enjoyment of single-players. It's meant for repeat playthroughs, but I like to invest myself in one world and build all kinds of bridges and monuments and tunnels through mountains to drive through, etc. Having a "classic" perk option in the world settings would be perfect, where nothing is limited by attribute specialization, and you can specialize into different perks freely, independent of attribute investment. Let's face it, I have 1.5 megabits of internet here in the country, I'm not playing online any time soon. So I have to do everything alone. I'd love to have a single playthrough where I don't feel like I'm missing out on other things in other attributes. I had this problem with Alpha 18/17 too and it always ends up coming back to this.

I'm not enjoying a stealth build, I'm enjoying an agility build. It's effective, but if I specialize in strength first, for example, I can't just run around on bloodmoon night shooting and throwing molotovs, because I won't have Run and Gun from the agility tree to reload while sprinting. So I am essentially forced (Yes, forced) to spec into agility first every time I play, if I don't want to engage in tower defense and rather, take the fight to them directly. I can, technically, have agility first and strength second, but not without weeks of dreadful zombie kill grinding to make it so. I feel like attributes themselves belong, agility, strength, etc, but putting POINTS into attributes doesn't belong. It would be better if the benefits of the attributes, IE headshot damage and dismemberment chance, were localized into new perks listed under each attribute. I know a lot of time and resources went into the development of this attribute system, but it just seems like a cheap way to make every player feel like they're missing out on things they want every playthrough. You can't reasonably brag about "this many hours" of play time on your game per year if you're really just psy@%$*#!gically (Psych - ologic - ally) manipulating people into engaging in multiple short-term playthroughs that always make them feel like they're missing out on things they want. 

Essentially the biggest solution I can recommend, is keep attributes, they fit; But don't gate every perk behind an attribute that I must first put points into. If anything, make new perks for headshot damage and dismember chance per weapon type, and remove the attribute requirements for different ranks of different perks. 

I grab some mining perks no matter what build I am playing. It is not like you can't have your cake and eat it too, eventually. If you take mining perks too soon you will deal with less combat abilities. But it is a very small investment to get decent at mining IMO. You just can't be the best miner but you can be adequate with 3 ranks pretty early game for a small investment.

 

[madmole]

Loving the new alpha so far however one thing as got me thinking, whats up with the "tiered" loot system? I know it is tied to your game stage and i agree we should not be getting M60s and Augers on day 1. Does anyone else feel that doing this is making looting boring? after getting 20 stone axes and spears i am like...."sigh" this is getting dull, looting the dungeon style POIs is possibly the best part of 7days2die. After clearing out a POI and entering the "loot" room its always exciting popping open the treasure chest and supply creates, or at least it used to be. i know end game it will be amazing FINALLY getting the high tier loot but it makes doing tier 2,3,4 POIs pointless at even day 10, which at this point i am totally ready to explore.

Also i am seeing that perk books and schematics are going to be tiered as well? that will totally destroy the fun factor of looting full stop IMO, i have been able to get a 4x4 at day 10 thanks to the schematics and being able to buy the steel for it. i have also found the auto shotgun schematic but have not made it yet due to spending all my dukes on the steel for the 4x4 and ammo for horde nights+food. 

Just think getting nothing but stone tools/weapons and the same crappy books/schematics over and over again until day 15 when you finally hit tier 2 loot. getting to those loot rooms will no longer be fun and exciting. 

I was thinking about maybe putting the high tier loot attached to traders, and tie them to high tier quests? possibly add new quests like "build and defend" or just "repair base" along side the not so great fetch/kill quests. Then chain them together, so you want an M60? you got to get to tier 3-4 trader quests and do 10 quests that are chained together in a numbered order of difficulty THEN the trader will sell the rewarded Item. This example the M60 for say ......100,000 dukes? it gives it a sense of progression and achievement knowing you WILL get that nice top tier gun without waiting for tiered loot to catch up with you. 

We will improve it. This is just a first quick attempt at a primitive stage. Part of the problem is we only have a few primitive weapons, once we get the pipe pistol, pipe machinegun, pipe rifle and pipe baton in, then all classes will be treated fairly and there will just be a lot more things in the loot pool. We could always bring in a low chance to start getting iron tools and iron guns sooner, but the general idea is, as long as you are getting something a little better you are pretty happy. We also have talked about doing a faster loot and a slower loot modifier so if you want you could start in the iron age, or have primitive last even longer, just with a slider. There is no way to make everyone happy with it, but it will get better for sure in the future.

I think some limited tiering for schematics and recipies might be nice. Tier 0-1 would be basic items like plain foods, forge, workbench and similar items you need to get started. Tier 1-2 would be your basic guns and armor. Tier 2-3 would start getting into mods for everything.

I imagine some overlap at all tiers, so there is a rare chance for something good but we haven't finalized any of that yet. My take on it is if I have nothing, a bicycle is good. Once I have that I'd be happy with a minibike, so on and so forth.