PC Alpha 19 Dev Diary

[Laz Man]

This, thank goodness the devs almost completely ignore us for balancing ideas, I felt like I was in loonyville reading those ideas around changing Junk Turret to nerf the living crap out of it to the point it being literally unusable. If it took gunpowder and only activated with a 1-2 block range it would be so hilariously useless it would make the Stun Baton look like the MvP weapon of the year. It would contend with Blunderbuss for it's spot as meme weapon of the game

Junk Turrets are fine the way they are, I say that as someone who uses the crap out of them and have done builds without them. I use them to save on ammo and to watch my back while I'm looting, not because they are OP. 

Explosives >>>>>>>>> Junk Turrets for taking out crowds. You can craft pipe bombs for basically free and take out 25 zombies near instantly. M60 can output way more damage than 2 Junk Turrets can too

Always kind of amusing / annoying to see people calling for Junk Turret nerfs and then ignoring explosives which are kind of the defacto horde deleter. Nearly every horde night strategy is just throwing a lot of explosives and whipping out the m60, but I don't think that makes them OP either. Junk Turrets are good for clearing PoI, but don't do anything a single shotgun can't do just as easily.

Honestly, on my current play through I would say my pump shotgun probably does more damage than my junk turrets do. They can tear through a group of zombies and use 2 thousand iron in the process, or I can just 1 hit kill them with a pump shotgun which is quite cheap to craft ammo for

Will be interesting to see if that is still the general consensus on junk turrets after A19 drops.  Since it is now a t2 item they wont be so plentiful like they are currently in A18 which is one reason call them OP....

 

[Khalagar]

I'm so excited to try the Junk Sledge, I hope it scales well into end game as the viable Int melee weapon. It's technically a T1 but I feel like the junk line should be the exception where all 3 tiers are viable since they do 3 different jobs.

Junk Turret being mid game is fine anyway, it's ridiculously weak without perk investment. You need like 3-4 levels of the junk turret skill before it's even worth using imo, at least on the second highest difficulty. So getting one at level 1 currently in A18 is nice but doesn't really do a whole lot that a stone sledge or shotgun can't do easier imo

 

[JCrook1028]

For those who say the current game is not a challenge have the perspective of a player with hundreds of hours under their belt. The game, in fact, is very difficult for new players, everything from not finding a healing solution in time to food which is always scarce when you dont know the loot system. The dev team is in the difficult position to make the game challenging enough for seasoned players and at the same time, preventing the noobs from rage quitting after their first bleed out which happens almost immediately upon first zombie encounter.

An actual tutorial system would fix most of the newb rage quits.

 

[beHypE]

Honestly, on my current play through I would say my pump shotgun probably does more damage than my junk turrets do. They can tear through a group of zombies and use 2 thousand iron in the process, or I can just 1 hit kill them with a pump shotgun which is quite cheap to craft ammo for

Funny that you mention this, as a matter of fact in my game after having taken all the points I wanted in the Int Tree, I went to try out the shotguns extensively. The double barrel is pretty terrible, but the pump is actually very good (and very rare, only found 1 before buying the schematic after 50 hours of playtime). With slugs not needing any brass, that means you basically have infinite ammunition (polymers are a breeze) if you put in the time needed to craft them, and with the right mods, it's surprinsigly accurate.

And yeah... My 2 junk turrets protect the drawbridge entrance of my base, and at that they are perfect for screamers but... I just don't use them in POIs anymore, and I'm clearing them faster by a pretty large margin. Junk drones might really add to the experience, and so will the Tier 3.

By the way, the junk turrets often make the zombies die standing up, which is annoying. I think it mostly happens when they die during the animation of getting stunned and/or getting up from a stun. @faatal 

 

[Roland]

To be honest, no matter how good we get Im sure we all still step on landmines lol.

Was playing with a friend not too long ago and we were raiding a poi and I was slowly walking up to it.  I saw some landmines and was like "Hey, watch where you st..." BOOM.  Needless to say he did not watch where he stepped.  He blew himself up 3-4 times during that session I believe.

And I know Ive stepped on plenty of mines myself as well.

I take it you've never tried using your wrench to harvest them instead....?

 

[hiemfire]

Junk drones might really add to the experience, and so will the Tier 3.

Iirc Junk Drone = the Tier 3.

Junk Sledge > Junk Turret > Junk Drone

I take it you've never tried using your wrench to harvest them instead....?

??? You're kidding right? We can do that without being blown up?

 

[Roland]

Only one way to know for sure.

 

[Khalagar]

Iirc Junk Drone = the Tier 3.

Junk Sledge > Junk Turret > Junk Drone

Junk Drone is the Tier 3, but it's not combat focused, which is why I want all 3 to be viable and am scared Junk Sledge will be outclassed end game by a Steel Sledge build.

The Junk line has 3 tiers like everything else, but they cover 3 different niches entirely.

Junk Sledge = Melee

Junk Turret = Ranged

Junk Drone = Healing and Floating Storage box, it's for support

 

[Roland]

Junk Drone is the Tier 3, but it's not combat focused, which is why I want all 3 to be viable and am scared Junk Sledge will be outclassed end game by a Steel Sledge build.

The Junk line has 3 tiers like everything else, but they cover 3 different niches entirely.

Junk Sledge = Melee

Junk Turret = Ranged

Junk Drone = Healing and Floating Storage box, it's for support

That's because they leave the player's hands free to hold an additional weapon. You cannot just compare the robotics alone with other trees. If Junk Sledges were equal to Sledgehammers and the Int guy could have two junk sledges working plus hold a sledgehammer himself that would be way beyond just a sledgehammer alone.

 

[Roland]

Can't wait for the stream later on today. Even though I probably won't use them (except for the Junk Sledge), I'm curious on how many sledges/turrets/drones we can have deployed at any given time. I'm most curious if two drones active at the same time will be a feature.

It's the same as A18. You can have as many as you wish deployed but only the two closest within range will be active if you are perked all the way to level 5. Below level 5 it is only one active at a time. But as Laz stated,  you can plant them at key locations and as you run around each will activate and start working while you are in range.

 

[Khalagar]

That's because they leave the player's hands free to hold an additional weapon. You cannot just compare the robotics alone with other trees. If Junk Sledges were equal to Sledgehammers and the Int guy could have two junk sledges working plus hold a sledgehammer himself that would be way beyond just a sledgehammer alone.

You can actually control a steel sledgehammer though. A stationary sledge you have to lead targets into = / = one you can use at will and prioritize targets with

Rick said you can't use the Junk Sledge while holding it, but I hope he's wrong, I thought it was said somewhere that you can. I'm worried about the hit detection on the Junk Sledge as well, it's going to need like 2+ block range to even have a chance at hitting stuff, and it will have to track moving targets to do so. It also competes for placement spots with the almost certainly vastly superior Junk Turret, so late game Junk Sledge will likely be handheld 99% of the time, assuming you can hold it.

At the very least, in handheld form Junk Sledge should be on par with the other end game weapons. If it's only par with Stone Sledge and Tier 1's it will be too weak to matter late game, as placing a Junk Sledge means you didn't place a Junk Turret instead. If Junk Sledge ends up being placement only and has stats on par with a tier 1 stone sledge, it has essentially zero use end game even for Int builds which will just stick with Junk Turrets + a better melee weapon. Madmole mentioned using it to defend doors and stuff, but late game just killing zombies with a real Junk Turrets is better at defending doors than whacking an Irradiated Military zombie with a stone sledge or wooden club

Even if Junk Sledge had the exact same stats as a Steel Sledgehammer and you placed 2 and held 1, it's not like that would be that crazy. 1 Steel Sledgehammer + 2 Junk Turrets placed >>>>> 1 Junk Sledge / Steel Sledge + 2 short range Junk Sledges you have to lead zombies to.  

It's not so much about comparing to other builds, as it's comparing to the options within the same build. If it doesn't have stats that make it viable end game, it would be a shame. It's a really cool weapon idea and they already put the time into making all the assets, why not just, y'know, make sure it's viable late game when you have all the perks? It can just scale as you get the relevant perk so it's not OP early game and not auto scrap garbo late game like a stone sledge or wooden club is

 

[Laz Man]

You can actually control a steel sledgehammer though. A stationary sledge you have to lead targets into = / = one you can use at will and prioritize targets with

Rick said you can't use the Junk Sledge while holding it, but I hope he's wrong, I thought it was said somewhere that you can. I'm worried about the hit detection on the Junk Sledge as well, it's going to need like 2+ block range to even have a chance at hitting stuff, and it will have to track moving targets to do so. It also competes for placement spots with the almost certainly vastly superior Junk Turret, so late game Junk Sledge will likely be handheld 99% of the time, assuming you can hold it.

At the very least, in handheld form Junk Sledge should be on par with the other end game weapons. If it's only par with Stone Sledge and Tier 1's it will be too weak to matter late game, as placing a Junk Sledge means you didn't place a Junk Turret instead. If Junk Sledge ends up being placement only and has stats on par with a tier 1 stone sledge, it has essentially zero use end game even for Int builds which will just stick with Junk Turrets + a better melee weapon. Madmole mentioned using it to defend doors and stuff, but late game just killing zombies with a real Junk Turrets is better at defending doors than whacking an Irradiated Military zombie with a stone sledge or wooden club

Even if Junk Sledge had the exact same stats as a Steel Sledgehammer and you placed 2 and held 1, it's not like that would be that crazy. 1 Steel Sledgehammer + 2 Junk Turrets placed >>>>> 1 Junk Sledge / Steel Sledge + 2 short range Junk Sledges you have to lead zombies to.  

It's not so much about comparing to other builds, as it's comparing to the options within the same build. If it doesn't have stats that make it viable end game, it would be a shame. It's a really cool weapon idea and they already put the time into making all the assets, why not just, y'know, make sure it's viable late game when you have all the perks? It can just scale as you get the relevant perk so it's not OP early game and not auto scrap garbo late game like a stone sledge or wooden club is

Assuming the junk sledge can be held I would assume it would take no stamina to use.  With that said it probably would be weaker then other melee weapons but more stamina efficient.

Trade offs.  Just like how the stun baton wont win a melee damage contest with other similar melee weapons.

 

[Adam the Waster]

im can't wait for the stream! for 3 things!

1: Pics

2: gameplay

3: Madmoles voice!

 

[Khalagar]

Just like how the stun baton wont win a melee damage contest with other similar melee weapons.

Hopefully Madmole has a segment on this one tonight, Rick was asked about it and said he didn't think it was buffed . . .if not, RIP

The stamina usage is a good point, and I agree it could have a bit lower damage. Basically, I just want it on par with the Fire-axe post Miner 69 perk investment and I'm totally happy with the Junk Sledge. A middle of the pack damage, but with solid range and stamina would make it a good Spear alternative that can't be thrown. My fear is basically just that it's Wood Club or Bone Shiv etc  damage like the other Tier 1's where they are just flat out bad

 

[Blake_]

Funny that you mention this, as a matter of fact in my game after having taken all the points I wanted in the Int Tree, I went to try out the shotguns extensively. The double barrel is pretty terrible, but the pump is actually very good (and very rare, only found 1 before buying the schematic after 50 hours of playtime). With slugs not needing any brass, that means you basically have infinite ammunition (polymers are a breeze) if you put in the time needed to craft them, and with the right mods, it's surprinsigly accurate.

And yeah... My 2 junk turrets protect the drawbridge entrance of my base, and at that they are perfect for screamers but... I just don't use them in POIs anymore, and I'm clearing them faster by a pretty large margin. Junk drones might really add to the experience, and so will the Tier 3.

By the way, the junk turrets often make the zombies die standing up, which is annoying. I think it mostly happens when they die during the animation of getting stunned and/or getting up from a stun. @faatal 

Nice observation, but a bit circumstantial . The bug, happens mostly to CLIENTS in Multiplayer and results in a percentage of the Zds dying standing up ( idle anim) and also dogs and entities with the same controller. 

@faatal probably knows about this as he fixed it for the most part from the admin perspective, but not entirely .

Some animals (dogs, wolfs) still die standing now and then both admin  and client side. 

Issue : 

ADMIN: (ZD standing bug: extremely rare because no delay anims among other things. DOG standing bug : now and then)

CLIENT: (ZD standing bug : now and then. DOG standing bug : now and then. Common if you are a client and spawn 100ds of entities to check the bug, lol.

Also, I found a Zd still standing once in a 300 hour gameplay as an admin in multiplayer, the BUG reproducing factors seem to  be : 

-high damage dealt resulting in death of the entity while said entity was performing an animation ( probably attacking, but not sure) As dogs move and attack and get stunned ALL the time , something is wrong with their animation transitions for them to die standing on occasion.

-Why does it happen more to CLIENTS? something to do with the delay and/or animation handling perhaps? At any rate, the controller for both Zds and canines needs another God pass from The Machine (Jigshawn, Shawnway factory, Shawr'thing man ... etc).

Anyway, if this hasn't been fixed for a19 then I will do a proper report when the time comes. 

Edit : Looking forward to the programmer's stream day.

 

[madmole]

Will we be able to craft tier 6 weapons in A19??

Nope. Players need to go loot if they want the best stuff.

Kinda yeah, lol. Turn on an Audiobook and mine away, I still think the "Minecraft for adults" aspect of this game is one of it's most unique traits. You get the Sense of Pride and Accomplishment™ too for your hand crafted gear you made yourself, and made all the mods for etc

The issue is more for tools than guns. A tier 6 Auger is a HUGE step above a Tier 5 one. You can add a Stone breaker, iron breaker, dirt breaker, large gas tank, diamond blade etc which are pretty huge quality of life increases. The more mods your tools have, the faster you can mine, so your tools being gated behind looting actually *is* pretty crippling because it adds several seconds longer per block break depending on the tool and block etc. It can add up pretty fast when doing a big project. Especially on stuff like the Steel Pick where a mod might push you over the breakpoint so you have to swing your pick one less time per block, that's a drastic improvement because of the high stamina drain + long animation to swing

For armor mods, it's mainly just me trying to cram as many pockets and liner mods, and same with guns, it's not as big of a deal besides with Junk Turrets. It makes a pretty big deal on Junk Turrets too because the missing damage will mean you end up spending like 10-20% + more ammo per big fight or horde night because of the  "kill break points". With most of the other weapons the break point won't matter that much as it probably won't save you a bullet, but with junk turrets it actually can save you several bullets per zed

It feels like a better accomplishment to have cleared a tier 5 POI and got that Q6 items to, than to just craft it.  You risked your life for it, not just toiled in the dirt for a while.

With the new candy rockbusters you can get 20% more resources for like TEN minutes... it's a really great buy for 100 dukes. My point is you don't need an auger to get a lot of resources.

 

[Khalagar]

Nope. Players need to go loot if they want the best stuff.

Madmole's exact reaction when he glanced at the forums and saw 9 new pages of posts going back and forth on play styles

 

[madmole]

Knuckle rub made MM the man he is.

get your knuckle rub from any older brother or order now...www.knucklerub.com

PS got two older brothers? get a knuckle rub sandwich!

That's right. I have two older brothers. I'll never knew this at the time, but when I finally out benched my eldest brother I guess he was upset about it lol. Payback comes in mysterious ways!

 

[Adam the Waster]

Madmole's exact reaction when he glanced at the forums and saw 9 new pages of posts going back and forth on play styles

damn right! he needs to save his voice for his Arnold voice!

 

[madmole]

MM has also started he likes time management in game. So have to decide if you want spend more time, building, mining, looting. Same with backpack size, he likes inventory management.

So I dont see them changing much.

Its not that I particularly like those aspects but they are pretty much part of the secret recipe as to WHY this game is fun. If you take away the danger from the incoming horde (the core reason you have to manage your time) I pretty much just quit playing. Once there is no challenge or no NEEDS I lose interest. Like in A16 I was end game by day 21. At best I could get to about day 35 as I'd have a massive impenetrable massive castle by then.

So we're constantly trying to create new needs as they are great time sinks and its rewarding to complete them.