JewBagelz
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See, now I just want a small chance for a random wandering horde to be like 30 rabbits descending upon the player.
PC Alpha 19 Dev Diary
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MechanicalLens
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Aldranon
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Why have it fire mere homing bullets. I believe, for balance, droids could be fired from it instead. They can fire the homing bullets.
SittingDuck
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Remove the ears and you got a horde of rats^^
exterminate annihilate destroy !!!! but bullets are so lowtech.... i would like electric arcs or so ^^Why have it fire mere homing bullets. I believe, for balance, droids could be fired from it instead. They can fire the homing bullets.
Jost Amman
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I have not said marksman is assault rifle in any of my comments. As I have stated, I have fired most guns in the game. Only one I have not is M60 and the others are all fairly accurate to how they are IRL.
Only guns I have are 9mm and shotgun. I have privilege of living in Texas, with friends that have many types of guns.
Aldranon
New member
I can say "Marksman assault rifle"... well. I typed it and you can be sure I said it... or didn't.
I've driven thru Texas in the summer and you can be sure I will not do so again for El Paso. Something about the heat, cow poop and oil fumes mixed all together leaves... an impression.
I know you are in Houston area, so I will assume you have been exposed to many kinds of guns. I will have to disagree with you on functionality. I consider ammo capacity part of that. Except for some customized rifles, I have never seen one with large bullet capacity. Second there is a difference between handling a magnum revolver and desert eagle.
I must say it is fun to spin the cylinder of revolver before closing it. At least first few times firing one.
Also a thank you for bringing modding Community together. Its best of any game I have played.
There are other places in Texas you probably dont want to smell either. Pasadena Texas comes to mind with all the refineries. It can get pretty bad.I've driven thru Texas in the summer and you can be sure I will not do so again for El Paso. Something about the heat, cow poop and oil fumes mixed all together leaves... an impression.
I was comprising your point to: It would be still largely worse than an M60 if we increased magazine size, because it would still be worse in a few other characteristics even if equal in magazine size. I assume you agree to that. But then increasing magazine size is NOT the solution. Next you would have to adapt the reticule speed to be more like the speed of the M60's redicule and so on and on
And I posed one possible solution (or a first draft to a solution if you like) just 3 posts after the message you quoted:
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MechanicalLens
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You said the magic word "realistically".
The most important thing is that weapons of the same tier should be comparably effective IN THE GAME, if you play into their strengths and look at the sum of advantages and disadvantages. Balance is the key to make every weapon useful and be used.
The second most important thing is that they should still be different so it adds to replayablility.
"realistic" is an also-ran.
Everything IMHO, but I don't think this is all too different to what the developers have as design rules
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FileMachete
New member
I think adjustment to the Marksmans headshot bonus is a solid idea @meganoth, but MRs could also, imo, use tighter, faster accuracy & default full-mod mag-size of 20 rounds (like rl).
I've been modding the MR for mag-size and aiming bits since they came in, and to me it makes them a contender vs. AK.
Trade off of no full-auto+greater capacity vs better accuracy in both aimed & hip-fire. & since I usually have a couple points into the stealth perk for more damage when sneaking, I lean towards the MR for POI clearing, and current BM base design is a single lane so even there I find myself more MR inclined.
Sure I could pack both, but I choose to limit myself to just two ranged options at a time, usually the Pistol & MR. Later with more rad-zeds I'll migrate to either SMG+MR or Shotgun+MR. (but I've heavily modded the shotgun to reflect 'real' double-ought spread&range so it's seriously OP'd. {but fun as h3ll ])
Two sticks to toss on the 'weapons' discussion are "More Ammo Types" and "mass".
A 9mm round is roughly only a third as powerful as a .44 mag, & ~1/7th as powerful as a 7.62x51. The M16/M4 round, 5.56x45 would fit neatly as ~half as powerful as the 7.62x51.
Adding in sub-sonic options for rifle rounds would mean drastically reduced power, for reduced sound pressure. Add head-shot bonus as needed to make a viable option for stealthers. And with the introduction of both HP & AP rounds, (along w both tiny stack sizes & 100-rd Boxes) the 'kiss' argument, as it relates to not having a lot of ammo types, is a bit long in the tooth, imo.
tldr; various calibers/ammo-types could add significant differentiations, as TFPs have already implemented, they just need to go a bit further, imo.
"mass" is more about how radically different, in rl, an M60 would be compared to a Marksman Rifle. The pure weight of one would make it a very poor choice for enclosed spaces like POIs. What is it, "handling"? or some such in-game? whatever that bit is that makes turning slower, that bit, for M60s in particular. could be jacked up so non-spec'd players would have to decide if an M60 for POIs made sense. Giving life to the AK.
Of course, it's all up to TFPs/MM and what they want to see for their game. And I'm fine w that, thanks to moddability, heh
Guess all I'm bothering to try and point out is that while I can easily see the rationale for not having dozens of different calibers/ammo-types in game, adding one or two more, when those would distinctly notch into a different 'tier', seems like a missed opportunity for progression/choice. Imo of course.
I've been modding the MR for mag-size and aiming bits since they came in, and to me it makes them a contender vs. AK.
Trade off of no full-auto+greater capacity vs better accuracy in both aimed & hip-fire. & since I usually have a couple points into the stealth perk for more damage when sneaking, I lean towards the MR for POI clearing, and current BM base design is a single lane so even there I find myself more MR inclined.
Sure I could pack both, but I choose to limit myself to just two ranged options at a time, usually the Pistol & MR. Later with more rad-zeds I'll migrate to either SMG+MR or Shotgun+MR. (but I've heavily modded the shotgun to reflect 'real' double-ought spread&range so it's seriously OP'd. {but fun as h3ll
])Two sticks to toss on the 'weapons' discussion are "More Ammo Types" and "mass".
A 9mm round is roughly only a third as powerful as a .44 mag, & ~1/7th as powerful as a 7.62x51. The M16/M4 round, 5.56x45 would fit neatly as ~half as powerful as the 7.62x51.
Adding in sub-sonic options for rifle rounds would mean drastically reduced power, for reduced sound pressure. Add head-shot bonus as needed to make a viable option for stealthers. And with the introduction of both HP & AP rounds, (along w both tiny stack sizes & 100-rd Boxes) the 'kiss' argument, as it relates to not having a lot of ammo types, is a bit long in the tooth, imo.
tldr; various calibers/ammo-types could add significant differentiations, as TFPs have already implemented, they just need to go a bit further, imo.
"mass" is more about how radically different, in rl, an M60 would be compared to a Marksman Rifle. The pure weight of one would make it a very poor choice for enclosed spaces like POIs. What is it, "handling"? or some such in-game? whatever that bit is that makes turning slower, that bit, for M60s in particular. could be jacked up so non-spec'd players would have to decide if an M60 for POIs made sense. Giving life to the AK.
Of course, it's all up to TFPs/MM and what they want to see for their game. And I'm fine w that, thanks to moddability, heh
Guess all I'm bothering to try and point out is that while I can easily see the rationale for not having dozens of different calibers/ammo-types in game, adding one or two more, when those would distinctly notch into a different 'tier', seems like a missed opportunity for progression/choice. Imo of course.
KuriousTurtle
New member
I see that the experimental tag is gone in the properties. We are getting closer to the krakening
I like the idea to change the turning speed with an M60 in hand. Maybe also change the running speed similar to heavy armor. This would give the M60 an even realistical disadvantage. "You are a heavy, act like it"I think adjustment to the Marksmans headshot bonus is a solid idea @meganoth, but MRs could also, imo, use tighter, faster accuracy & default full-mod mag-size of 20 rounds (like rl).
I've been modding the MR for mag-size and aiming bits since they came in, and to me it makes them a contender vs. AK.
Trade off of no full-auto+greater capacity vs better accuracy in both aimed & hip-fire. & since I usually have a couple points into the stealth perk for more damage when sneaking, I lean towards the MR for POI clearing, and current BM base design is a single lane so even there I find myself more MR inclined.
Sure I could pack both, but I choose to limit myself to just two ranged options at a time, usually the Pistol & MR. Later with more rad-zeds I'll migrate to either SMG+MR or Shotgun+MR. (but I've heavily modded the shotgun to reflect 'real' double-ought spread&range so it's seriously OP'd. {but fun as h3ll
Two sticks to toss on the 'weapons' discussion are "More Ammo Types" and "mass".
A 9mm round is roughly only a third as powerful as a .44 mag, & ~1/7th as powerful as a 7.62x51. The M16/M4 round, 5.56x45 would fit neatly as ~half as powerful as the 7.62x51.
Adding in sub-sonic options for rifle rounds would mean drastically reduced power, for reduced sound pressure. Add head-shot bonus as needed to make a viable option for stealthers. And with the introduction of both HP & AP rounds, (along w both tiny stack sizes & 100-rd Boxes) the 'kiss' argument, as it relates to not having a lot of ammo types, is a bit long in the tooth, imo.
tldr; various calibers/ammo-types could add significant differentiations, as TFPs have already implemented, they just need to go a bit further, imo.
"mass" is more about how radically different, in rl, an M60 would be compared to a Marksman Rifle. The pure weight of one would make it a very poor choice for enclosed spaces like POIs. What is it, "handling"? or some such in-game? whatever that bit is that makes turning slower, that bit, for M60s in particular. could be jacked up so non-spec'd players would have to decide if an M60 for POIs made sense. Giving life to the AK.
Of course, it's all up to TFPs/MM and what they want to see for their game. And I'm fine w that, thanks to moddability, heh
Guess all I'm bothering to try and point out is that while I can easily see the rationale for not having dozens of different calibers/ammo-types in game, adding one or two more, when those would distinctly notch into a different 'tier', seems like a missed opportunity for progression/choice. Imo of course.
More ammo types, ok, well, mmmh. Special ammo like the sub-sonic 5.56 rounds for example would help the sniper to be a stealth weapon (by too much copying of AGI weapon styles) and would not help at all with it being worse than the M60 on horde night. Not saying it can't be expanded into a full solution, but another ammo type has drawbacks (in-game and development effort) and I think there are easier solutions lying around.
beHypE
New member
Realistic or not, reducing the accuracy of the machine guns would go a long way towards not being able to do everything a sniper does and so much more. The tradeoff of having huge magazines would be that aiming the head would be a bit more up to chance, whereas snipers should be dead accurate super fast to compensate. And i'm honestly not sure having scopes as mods is a good thing. It seems nice on paper but it takes the only niche of the snipers away.
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FileMachete
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Hadn't considered run-speed... good point, I like itI like the idea to change the turning speed with an M60 in hand. Maybe also change the running speed similar to heavy armor. This would give the M60 an even realistical disadvantage. "You are a heavy, act like it"
Yeah, from what I've read on forums, 'stealth' builds + horde night have been a bit of an issue for a while now I guess. Sub-sonic bit wasn't intended towards horde nights of course; at least unless they re-did the mechanic so stealthers could actually be 'unseen' (which I don't think there's any chance of).
I was thinking of the other six days, where stealth shots can be a fun mechanic in clearing.
Issue, to me at least, is that once the tougher zeds become common, and a suppressed 9mm isn't one-shotting anymore (Edit: when sneaking), there's not really a next ~rational~ tier.
Sure just add a can to the MR, it's a bit louder but in larger POIs you can stay back enough to not wake all the sleepers, but, immersion wise, it bugs me as I know what that supersonic crack sounds like, and it should raise the dead, heh.
But if it were up to me I'd throw in something like a .50-90 Sharps or a .470 Nitro Express to one-shot Behemoths, so I'm definately not to be trusted for restraint on this subject :biggrin1:
(Edit: I'd add 'odd' stuff like the two mentioned but also -not- allow current simple ammo crafting; make it so you'd have to horde specific brass, or you wouldn't have any ammo for your Behemoth killer come horde night
& by then it's clearly out-of-scope, but yay modders!)
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Adam the Waster
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SnowDog1942
Navezgane's Perv
Draven Black
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Are we going to be able to repair or take over say the deuce and half military truck or we just going to get what we have now, because being able to fix a vehicle in world would be great I mean a loot bus or Military truck
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