PC Alpha 19 Dev Diary

Status
Not open for further replies.
Ralathar44 said:
Int is my next run to test.  I just want to get some play time with my desert eagle first :p. 

When first released Baton was super weak unless backed by turrets and Dual Turret was pretty underwhelming compared to other specs.  But after the skill buffs and the ammo storage buffs and etc it became viable and very powerful within very narrow niches like being top tier at POI clearing.  With the new hammer turret, the new turret ammos, and the new books it's looking like it can stand toe to toe with other spec'd now on horde defense while retaining it's POI power.   I have no clue where baton stands now with the added books and mod and candy, it's a total wildcard for me atm.

I'm scared that after a full int run to day 50+ I'll be recommending a nerf now :P.  I'll see how it shakes out.  Now if I can just stop playing Death Stranding for a bit...

Yo, legit, rabbits are definitely super annoying to hunt.  Gotta find one then nerd pole so you can see them through the grass and then wait for them to stand up.  But most of the time they blend into the undergrowth and are already fleeing by the time you see them and they flee very unpredictably.
Click to expand...
I thought I heard somewhere that the Robotic Sledge was getting a nerf.

Yeah, especially when chickens give you the same amount of meat and are much slower than the player is. One hippity hops and flippity flops all over the place, the other just "runs" in a straight line as you stroll right in for the kill.

 
Guppycur said:
Hey... No modding talk... I won't warn you again. 🙂

But seriously, what's with the hitch when zombies spawn in? It's even more noticeable with "that word" zombies... Especially on disk drives. I think the patch notes alluded to something that would cause this (no more preloading?), and was wondering if this was a temporary situation for a greater future fix?

May be a @faatal question...

I noticed the tools in the prefab editor, what is the tfp ideal performance count for prefabs?
Click to expand...
The normal entities like zombies are a one time load, because currently they never unload. Many of those you will never see like every trader, so it make sense to not load them. With the changes to streaming now only using the main camera, preloading them may not be as much of an issue, but it needs more R&D or possibly a newer Unity version with more control of streaming.

You would need to load our current prefabs to get an idea what the designers are using. There is not specific number. They just try to keep it down.

 
I can tell you right now, from experience, that the current method causes a lot of hitching during gameplay.

I even put all my settings to minimum (which still resulted in approx 1.5GB VRAM usage in Nav) and was still getting lag spikes from entities loading in as needed... from an SSD (SATA, not NVME. I felt that was more representative of what the average user has for games).

It's not a good system. If you guys need to sort out performance, then stop adding deco blocks. 

 
Blake_ said:
Hi @faatal , I've been playing for a while now, and I thought you could use this feedback:

Full wipe (files+appdata) + reinstall. New map (RWG 4k x 4k)

The biggest and most screenfreezing performance drops come from  a bunch of console warnings that read in yellow something like: "failed to load in chunk (numbers numbers) blablabla (nameoftheblock)." Said blocks include Couch_01, some cars... etc. How bad of a frame drop? I go from 60 to ~1 fps for no more than 5 seconds and then the warning pops internally ( I need to press f1 to notice it). Happens in multiplayer. Didn't test in singleplayer.

The second case of performace drops comes from the instaspawn of Zds and animals both after death and when moving through the world. They respawn instantly and sometimes in numbers above 1 (can be seen in console) and can result in big short drops in performance. I'd rather see more entities but with at least a few seconds between each spawn (no need to be more than 5 seconds). Even wandering hordes should wait 1 second per Zd because while they are not that common, the moment they spawn I can feel it.

To add to this info, 1 entity spawning drops performance 10-15 fps (from 60 to 40-45fps) for a couple of seconds .

When spawning more than one instantly the fps drop  18-40fps for 3 to 5 seconds.

Tunning spawn rates to be a bit separated between entities will benefit all players and should not affect gameplay in any way .
Click to expand...
Console messages are slow period, so many of them in a short period will use CPU. Never seen that block message. Are you on a slow computer? Are you running the game from a HD?

Entities should never spawn in multiples on the same frame. That would obviously lead to frame spikes. Biome group ZombiesWastelandNight now has 0 delay and max count of 3. The 0 should probably be a small number like .01, but really code should just deal with the 0 and make it the minimum to get smooth spawning. Biome spawning is crusty old code that could use some work. What biome(s) and time of day are you seeing this?

 
I can tell you after this update the game is playing worse for sure. 

Getting lots of lag/freeze spikes playing in multiplayer now.  Something is up. 

 
@faatal On the zombie spawning hitching: I do a lot of testing in my testing compound POI in playtesting, and I notice (before b169 this never was the case) the first spawning -- whether it's 1, 5, or 25 at once -- there's a small stutter, and anything else after than first spawning (even different zeds or animals) there's no hitch at all. In fact, I can have like 50~ entities spawned with only minor suffering of FPS and no hitching. This includes future spawning of zombies/animals after they all die, or I killall, from the spawning menu (in that session). Weird.

On my day 7 horde night in a test run on Navez, there was a hitch as soon as the first zombies spawned (I even saw them magically appear), and after that there were zero hitches (including when horde night spawning ended about 02:30 and I spawned 20 more zeds for fun, no hitching). Other than that, the stuttering on my end mainly consists within new chunks, and usually only every few chunks. If I hit, say, a town, getting close to POIs always causes the hitch, after that there's no or nominal hitching. Yes, I am on a HDD lol. Just observations if they help at all.

 
@faatal - I don't know if anything this says helps but on my PC with a relatively fast GDDR6 video card pulling stuff from SSD vs a slow GDDR5 video card pulling it from a hard drive..for me..anyway..chunk loading is @%$*#!..it's just too slow and chunky. You must have a beast if you don't notice it. When I load a chunk that's got a lot of blocks in it - I can feel it..it chugs HARD.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
If there was anyway to reduce the complexity of Zombies and other entities based on how far way you were - man oh man would that go a long way. I realize it's harder to do than on static objects like blocks - but if you could make zeds have some form of LOD from distance - we'd be goin places..

I had a few ideas when messing around with Unity - I don't know the details - but I can see how on a normal dynamic entity like a zed how you can define several files for its model and texture based on whatever triggers you want. I'd use a distance - I'd make about 5 different ones. That load in and out basaed on distance. 5 diff meshes, animations, and textures for each entity - so as you pulling up - you're not loading the max resource - depending on distance - you might load just a small tex + animation file since the zed is so far away. NO way an expert in this - I am just goofin around...I just want to see the game better is all.

 
Doctor3D said:
If there was anyway to reduce the complexity of Zombies and other entities based on how far way you were - man oh man would that go a long way. I realize it's harder to do than on static objects like blocks - but if you could make zeds have some form of LOD from distance - we'd be goin places..

I had a few ideas when messing around with Unity - I don't know the details - but I can see how on a normal dynamic entity like a zed how you can define several files for its model and texture based on whatever triggers you want. I'd use a distance - I'd make about 5 different ones. That load in and out basaed on distance. 5 diff meshes, animations, and textures for each entity - so as you pulling up - you're not loading the max resource - depending on distance - you might load just a small tex + animation file since the zed is so far away. NO way an expert in this - I am just goofin around...I just want to see the game better is all.
Click to expand...
The non-HD zombies do have an LOD. 3 of them IIRC.

I haven't ripped the new HD ones to check if they do.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
KhaineGB said:
The non-HD zombies do have an LOD. 3 of them IIRC.

I haven't ripped the new HD ones to check if they do.
Click to expand...


Yeah that's way beyond me..I haven't looked at RAW files of this game since A15---if that's the case - maybe it needs to be aggrevated to much higher degree...I don't notice ANY LOD on the zeds..maybe get it so strong that I notice it...and go from there and see the FPS benefit.

Should maybe even force sleepers to level 3 or 4 of 5 LOD until they become activated...As they wake up - update their texture and animation to level 5..but before then..just let them sit idle in a low LOD state suitable for your distance.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
madmole said:
madmole said:
@MM.    You guys have made my favorite melee weapon, the stun baton, crazy better and close to being over powered with the candy and taser mod. I have a blast taking on decent sized hordes and rarely taking damage if my timing is right. Totally enjoy it, intellect is definitely my favorite.
Click to expand...
Intelligence build is a great build to play - my second time around now after restart - but it is very very much dependant on luck of finding books and weapons. 

For example on my first play through I didn't get a stun baton anywhere ( questing already tier 3 ), 3 traders didn't sell it, never got it in loot chests. Than I bought a crappy one on day 13 for 3k dukes. Same with turrets - my first sledge turret I got on day 21 - I did find schematics for regular junk turret - but only bought 4 robotic parts from traders. Got my 1st Junk turret, quality 3, on day 22 - bought it from trader with 4 levels into better barter.

Nerd tats candy were also more of an exception in all the vending machines. I would rather see nerd tats effect would be added as 3-5 lvl in baton skills ( so baton would have same extra effect on higher levels same as sledges does in STR tree ).

Tech Junkie books were very rare finds, I finally found stun baton repulsor mod book on day 35. Been playing with lucky looter 1 till day 20 than invested few more points to lvl2 and I started getting bit more INT related drops.
I know INT is missing stone age weapons since it only has one type of a weapon and maybe that is why drops were so rare for me on this playthrough ( iron version - no stone and steel versions yet, maybe A20? ).
P.S. I also noticed that animals aren't affected by shock the same way as zombies are - bears kept chasing me, deer ran away :)

Maybe I just had a bad luck with drops this time around, but once I found items for my build it got to be a very fun experience.


 
Click to expand...

 
Last edited by a moderator:
faatal said:
Console messages are slow period, so many of them in a short period will use CPU. Never seen that block message.
Click to expand...


I did a quick test right now and after most of the hickups that happen I had one or more yellow lines in the console.

Here is only the WRN part of my logs from yesterday - I have plenty of them in:

2020-07-18T23:20:27 3429.223 WRN No chunk for position 1519, 56, 1712, can not add childs to pos 1520, 56, 1712! Block couchSofa01
2020-07-18T23:26:11 3773.224 WRN No chunk for position 767, 75, 1584, can not add childs to pos 767, 75, 1583! Block bed02
2020-07-18T23:26:39 3801.145 WRN No chunk for position 703, 74, 1605, can not add childs to pos 704, 74, 1605! Block cntBathTubEmpty
2020-07-18T23:27:36 3857.930 WRN No chunk for position 617, 65, 1712, can not add childs to pos 617, 65, 1711! Block couchSofa01
2020-07-18T23:28:10 3891.740 WRN No chunk for position 574, 69, 1744, can not add childs to pos 574, 69, 1742! Block crushedCars
2020-07-18T23:28:31 3913.186 WRN No chunk for position 509, 66, 1600, can not add childs to pos 509, 65, 1597! Block cntCar03SedanDamage2v06
2020-07-18T23:28:31 3913.216 WRN No chunk for position 502, 75, 1664, can not add childs to pos 502, 75, 1663! Block bed02
2020-07-18T23:28:39 3920.972 WRN No chunk for position 463, 67, 1583, can not add childs to pos 464, 67, 1583! Block pipeSmallWall1x3
2020-07-18T23:28:39 3920.987 WRN No chunk for position 463, 69, 1604, can not add childs to pos 464, 69, 1603! Block decoPicnicTable
2020-07-18T23:28:50 3931.922 WRN No chunk for position 454, 67, 1664, can not add childs to pos 454, 67, 1663! Block pipeSmallWall1x3
2020-07-18T23:28:50 3931.969 WRN No chunk for position 456, 70, 1760, can not add childs to pos 456, 70, 1759! Block bed02
2020-07-18T23:29:01 3943.074 WRN No chunk for position 415, 67, 1602, can not add childs to pos 416, 67, 1602! Block cntCoffin
2020-07-18T23:29:01 3943.074 WRN No chunk for position 415, 67, 1608, can not add childs to pos 416, 67, 1608! Block cntCoffin
2020-07-18T23:29:01 3943.081 WRN No chunk for position 415, 67, 1618, can not add childs to pos 416, 67, 1618! Block cntCoffin
2020-07-18T23:29:01 3943.082 WRN No chunk for position 415, 67, 1621, can not add childs to pos 416, 67, 1621! Block cntCoffin
2020-07-18T23:29:07 3948.983 WRN No chunk for position 391, 69, 1808, can not add childs to pos 391, 68, 1805! Block cntCar03SedanDamage0v04
2020-07-18T23:29:21 3963.643 WRN No chunk for position 367, 71, 1719, can not add childs to pos 369, 70, 1719! Block cntCar03SedanDamage2v07
2020-07-18T23:29:35 3977.162 WRN No chunk for position 313, 75, 1712, can not add childs to pos 313, 75, 1711! Block bed02
2020-07-18T23:29:43 3984.970 WRN No chunk for position 271, 68, 1715, can not add childs to pos 272, 68, 1716! Block decoPicnicTable
2020-07-18T23:29:48 3990.644 WRN No chunk for position 255, 70, 1730, can not add childs to pos 256, 68, 1732! Block decoSwingSet
2020-07-18T23:30:04 4005.861 WRN No chunk for position 384, 69, 1805, can not add childs to pos 382, 68, 1805! Block cntCar03SedanDamage2v06
2020-07-18T23:30:04 4005.861 WRN No chunk for position 384, 69, 1792, can not add childs to pos 383, 68, 1792! Block cntDumpster
2020-07-18T23:30:49 4051.521 WRN No chunk for position 188, 69, 1584, can not add childs to pos 186, 68, 1583! Block cntCar03SedanDamage2v02
2020-07-18T23:32:47 4169.504 WRN No chunk for position 130, 74, 1760, can not add childs to pos 130, 74, 1759! Block cntBathTubEmpty
2020-07-18T23:32:50 4172.219 WRN No chunk for position 119, 68, 1600, can not add childs to pos 120, 68, 1599! Block decoPicnicTable
2020-07-18T23:32:50 4172.234 WRN No chunk for position 125, 69, 1632, can not add childs to pos 125, 69, 1631! Block hayBaleSquare
2020-07-18T23:32:50 4172.303 WRN No chunk for position 111, 74, 1783, can not add childs to pos 112, 74, 1783! Block cntWoodDesk01Open
2020-07-18T23:32:58 4180.102 WRN No chunk for position 111, 70, 1760, can not add childs to pos 111, 69, 1759! Block decoBenchPress
2020-07-18T23:34:44 4286.529 WRN No chunk for position 15, 71, 1563, can not add childs to pos 16, 70, 1561! Block cntCar03SedanDamage2v01
2020-07-18T23:41:25 4687.177 WRN No chunk for position 140, 71, 1391, can not add childs to pos 140, 68, 1393! Block decoMetalSlide
2020-07-18T23:41:28 4690.522 WRN No chunk for position 128, 70, 1384, can not add childs to pos 126, 68, 1385! Block decoSwingSet
2020-07-18T23:42:11 4732.845 WRN No chunk for position 32, 58, 1334, can not add childs to pos 31, 57, 1334! Block cntDumpster
2020-07-18T23:42:32 4753.901 WRN No chunk for position 32, 69, 1302, can not add childs to pos 30, 68, 1302! Block cntCar03SedanDamage2v03
2020-07-18T23:42:41 4763.562 WRN No chunk for position 64, 69, 1272, can not add childs to pos 63, 68, 1271! Block cntDumpster
2020-07-18T23:42:49 4771.385 WRN No chunk for position 89, 68, 1231, can not add childs to pos 89, 68, 1232! Block couchSofa01
2020-07-18T23:43:03 4785.239 WRN No chunk for position 128, 75, 1201, can not add childs to pos 127, 75, 1201! Block cntMetalDesk02Closed
2020-07-18T23:43:24 4805.903 WRN No chunk for position 60, 70, 1167, can not add childs to pos 60, 69, 1168! Block cntDumpster
2020-07-18T23:43:33 4815.255 WRN No chunk for position 56, 69, 1151, can not add childs to pos 56, 69, 1153! Block crushedCars
2020-07-18T23:43:33 4815.278 WRN No chunk for position 112, 70, 1167, can not add childs to pos 111, 69, 1167! Block cntDumpster
2020-07-18T23:52:01 5323.534 WRN No chunk for position 192, 80, 1109, can not add childs to pos 191, 80, 1109! Block cntMetalDesk02Open
2020-07-18T23:52:19 5341.183 WRN No chunk for position 240, 69, 1152, can not add childs to pos 239, 68, 1154! Block cntCar03SedanDamage2v06
2020-07-18T23:53:57 5439.530 WRN No chunk for position 248, 69, 1168, can not add childs to pos 248, 68, 1166! Block cntCar03SedanDamage2v04
2020-07-18T23:54:48 5490.620 WRN No chunk for position 212, 69, 1039, can not add childs to pos 214, 68, 1040! Block cntCar03SedanDamage0v05



This is a fresh generated game (b169) on PREGEN02.

Maybe the PREGENs are outdated after the latest fixes? It may help, if I'll generate a new RWG word, I think.

 
Anyway - I'd like to think I'm really good at finding problems and flaws and seeing their genesis. If you want another QA tester..I think i'd be a good one and hit me up..I work cheap and will do anything and everything I can to help make this game better. Invite me if you need or want another QA.. 

 
MechanicalLens said:
I thought I heard somewhere that the Robotic Sledge was getting a nerf.
Click to expand...


Wat, no pls no!! It's finally viable and makes an actually good end game melee weapon for Int build. It's not very good at all without perk investment, and even a single one isn't that great by itself. If I put 8 mods into 2 junk sledges, set them up so they can actually hit stuff, and have an entire magazine line + 10 points in int + 5 points in the turret perk, they SHOULD actually be as strong as they are now, as their current level is mostly just "These are useful in some niche situations and I find myself actually using them sometimes in a PoI" but they aren't that crazy outside of horde bases built solely around them.

For any kind of large horde, you still use Junk Turrets, and on horde night even if you build your entire base around junk sledges, they won't do anything you couldn't do 400 times better with pipe bombs, which are basically free to craft and have been blatantly OP since they were added. Every horde strategy I've seen including Madmole's is just "Stand on bars and throw molotovs and pipe bombs down at the horde"being the crux of your damage to the horde, regardless of build. There's no point in even investing in explosive perk, rock candy + their base damage out classes every other weapon type. 

Having new alternatives are a good thing imo

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Doctor3D said:
Yeah that's way beyond me..I haven't looked at RAW files of this game since A15---if that's the case - maybe it needs to be aggrevated to much higher degree...I don't notice ANY LOD on the zeds..maybe get it so strong that I notice it...and go from there and see the FPS benefit.

Should maybe even force sleepers to level 3 or 4 of 5 LOD until they become activated...As they wake up - update their texture and animation to level 5..but before then..just let them sit idle in a low LOD state suitable for your distance.
Click to expand...
I think... (not sure, would need to check) that zombie LOD is actually related to your tree settings.

At least I remember that being a thing in either A17 or A18.

 
Khalagar said:
Wat, no pls no!! It's finally viable and makes an actually good end game melee weapon for Int build. It's not very good at all without perk investment, and even a single one isn't that great by itself. If I put 8 mods into 2 junk sledges, set them up so they can actually hit stuff, and have an entire magazine line + 10 points in int + 5 points in the turret perk, they SHOULD actually be as strong as they are now, as their current level is mostly just "These are useful in some niche situations and I find myself actually using them sometimes in a PoI" but they aren't that crazy outside of horde bases built solely around them.

For any kind of large horde, you still use Junk Turrets, and on horde night even if you build your entire base around junk sledges, they won't do anything you couldn't do 400 times better with pipe bombs, which are basically free to craft and have been blatantly OP since they were added. Every horde strategy I've seen including Madmole's is just "Stand on bars and throw molotovs and pipe bombs down at the horde"being the crux of your damage to the horde, regardless of build. There's no point in even investing in explosive perk, rock candy + their base damage out classes every other weapon type. 

Having new alternatives are a good thing imo
Click to expand...
Can't confirm this though, JaWoodle said it either in his latest video or the one before (that it was rumored or he heard it somewhere, idk)

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top