PC Alpha 19 Dev Diary

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My A19 experience thus far would be: between surviving, maintaining self/base, and exploring there's never a "downtime" for me. If my forges, concrete mixers, chem stations, and workbenches aren't doing something then that's a problem, for me. I like where the perks are thus far. Love the mining still. As far as equipment later stages, the armor is good, the t3 weapons feel lacking in regards to endgame damage output - almost feels like there should be a t4 (another tier) - for demolishers/radiated swarms. Current weapons do get the job done, don't get me wrong, it's just a "feeling". Enjoying the building aspect so far in A19. I do wish we had more cleaner paint color variety (not a fan, myself, of chipped concrete / rusted metal colors). Sitting here waiting for my ammo to finish up in preparation for D105 horde nite. My base, besides some finishing touch-ups, is where I wanted it to be and is ready for testing before I add more "extras" or start another project. A special "Thank you" to @madmole and the rest of TFP for giving this disabled vet something to preoccupy the mind with. Here's the base:

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They don't, only stone axe, hammer and nail gun repair.

I stopped mining stone directly. I only mine ore and use the leftover stone. I do mine those stone pallets though at POIs.

I stopped grinding stone into sand, it is a waste of good stone you need for concrete.

I also stopped smelting stone into cement mix.

These three things combined give me a surplus of stone and all the concrete mix I need. I just shovel it up at POIs now and mix it with sand I shovel up from the construction POI so I don't have to go to the desert or waste my stone grinding up sand. Much less grindier feeling playing this way. Usually by day 10 I have 3 stacks of cement mix. Last night on day 13 I easily upgraded the first 3 rows of my 7x7 and have enough left for post horde repairs.
Whatever works for you. :)  We each have our ways of doing things.

 
Bruh the janitor looks like sylvester stallone

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The problem is that the stone shovel is very close to the iron shovel in terms of block damage per stamina point expended. Unperked, the stone axe gives 3.67 block damage per stamina point, and the iron shovel gives 3.88 block damage per stamina point, an improvement of only 5.73%. Then the steel shovel gives 5.82 block damage/stamina, a whopping 50% improvement over the iron shovel.

Here's my shovel progress redesign proposal:



Note how:

* Percentage improvement in damage/second and damage/stamina is more consistent between successive tiers

* Iron shovel uses a bit less stamina/second, steel a bit more. This way, even with maxed  Sex Rex, you eventually run out of stamina using the steel shovel. This incentives the player to use mods, drinks, candies etc to further boost their stamina regen, unlike the current system. In other words, Steel is still clearly the best but has more room to grow into.

* Nerfed the auger damage a bit to be more in line with other tier-to-tier improvements, because not using any stamina is already a massive upside
Nearly doubling the animation speed for Stone Shovel will look kinda janky. I think +33% is about the most you can push without it getting into Crack addict territory.

This doesn't account for mods. I think Grave Digger + 3 others would be juuuuuuust enough to put Stone Shovel into 2 hit land again.

Are these numbers for Quality 6 for each tier?

This also doesn't factor in random variance in Iron/Steel.

 
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I love the hand wraps in the game. you hit harder and do better. That and the knife make me feel like the predator rather than someone simply defending himself. 

But the way my Avatar holds her hands is just weird. No offence TFP's but it looks as if she is pushing a grocery cart. 

I would much rather it look more natural. 

 
Nearly doubling the animation speed for Stone Shovel will look kinda janky. I think +33% is about the most you can push without it getting into Crack addict territory.

This doesn't account for mods. I think Grave Digger + 3 others would be juuuuuuust enough to put Stone Shovel into 2 hit land again.

Are these numbers for Quality 6 for each tier?

This also doesn't factor in random variance in Iron/Steel.
That's true about the animation speed, it already seems fast as is. But we can change the animation ;)

Block damage is base/quality 1.

 
I honestly think you guys are missing a trick not allowing us to salvage objects from POIs intact. There's so many nice new objects, signs, posters that you could use in your base, but you can't take, make or even from the looks of things buy them. Honestly, I'd love to be able to bring home objects for my base (like we used to be able to with the old fridge for instance), it'd be another reason to go out and hit certain POIs.

I know you can get them from the creative cheat menu but I hate having to use that thing. I have to use it for a lot of missing blocks and to make painting less of a clickfest. Hope this part of the game gets some love at some point.

 
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but T2 weapons with skills quickly leave it behind and T3 is incredibly better than fireaxe.


<_<

I have a 4/5  perked fully modded Steel Sledge I use pretty much constantly now along side my dual junk sledges post buff. I gotta say, the axe still more than holds it own against my steel sledge, y'all should try it a bit before assuming it's just a tool

I just use power attacks with my axe 99% of the time, and it 1-2 hit kills basically everything that isn't an irradiated or feral military guy, which are a 2-4 hit kill. The main reason I use the the sledge is for the AoE and knock down, but 1 vs 1 the axe has really good stagger and dismember, and the dual junk sledges can handle knockdown too.

I just tested it if you want to see an example on the second hardest difficulty



Note, this is a level 5 axe vs a level 6 Sledge and the sledge has the stamina reducing grip on it as well

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I used my sledge after the video for the last part of the house and basically the only difference is it takes WAY more stamina and attacks much slower, but more consistently one hit kills instead of stagger locking the target. The difference isn't nearly as extreme as a lot of people seem to think, and against a group the axe can perform a lot better depending on the situation because it attacks far faster and won't leave you out of stamina near instantly

A lot of people sleep on the Fire Axe and don't even really try it, but it's basically a straight side grade to the Steel Club. Both are "Faster and cheaper to swing than the Sledge, but a bit less damage" except "a bit less damage" doesn't matter because of break points, same as my Ratchet vs Impact post. It doesn't matter if you do 40 damage or 40 trillion billion zillion damage, if the target only has 38 health.  Fire Axe near always 1 shots non feral basic zombies same as sledge,  2 shots feral zombies same as sledge, and takes maybe 1-2 hits max more on like a feral irradiated tough boye zombie. Staggers nearly as consistently for me too

Madmole pls no nerf now that secret is out

 
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<_<

I have a 4/5  perked fully modded Steel Sledge I use pretty much constantly now along side my dual junk sledges post buff. I gotta say, the axe still more than holds it own against my steel sledge, y'all should try it a bit before assuming it's just a tool

I just use power attacks with my axe 99% of the time, and it 1-2 hit kills basically everything that isn't an irradiated or feral military guy, which are a 2-4 hit kill. The main reason I use the the sledge is for the AoE and knock down, but 1 vs 1 the axe has really good stagger and dismember, and the dual junk sledges can handle knockdown too.

I just tested it if you want to see an example on the second hardest difficulty



Note, this is a level 5 axe vs a level 6 Sledge and the sledge has the stamina reducing grip on it as well





I used my sledge after the video for the last part of the house and basically the only difference is it takes WAY more stamina and attacks much slower, but more consistently one hit kills instead of stagger locking the target. The difference isn't nearly as extreme as a lot of people seem to think, and against a group the axe can perform a lot better depending on the situation because it attacks far faster and won't leave you out of stamina near instantly

A lot of people sleep on the Fire Axe and don't even really try it, but it's basically a straight side grade to the Steel Club. Both are "Faster and cheaper to swing than the Sledge, but a bit less damage" except "a bit less damage" doesn't matter because of break points, same as my Ratchet vs Impact post. It doesn't matter if you do 40 damage or 40 trillion billion zillion damage, if the target only has 38 health.  Fire Axe near always 1 shots non feral basic zombies same as sledge,  2 shots feral zombies same as sledge, and takes maybe 1-2 hits max more on like a feral irradiated tough boye zombie. Staggers nearly as consistently for me too

Madmole pls no nerf now that secret is out
You've got the strength build to help with the stamina that most other builds will not have.  Also by your own admission you lose the AOE knockdown, but your also losing out on the guaranteed single target knockdown.  You also lose the 200% damage to stunned enemies.  This might not matter much on your rank and file zombies, but basically any weapon can handle controlled pulls of 1 zombie at a time.  Even a stone axe can handle 1 zombie at a time.  That's more of a question of timing and caution to avoid swings than anything else. 

Where melee weapon viability kicks in is when you get groups of zombies or face individual tougher zombies like ferals and rads with significant health.  Clubs are good at pummeling tough enemies and keeping them a non danger on the ground and get bonus damage on downed enemies.  Sledges are good at area knockdown and doing high alpha strike damage and get bonus damage on stunned enemies.  Blades are good at hitting multiple zombies quickly and then bailing to let them bleed out and are also very stamina efficient...they also have very high attack speed and can dispatch single zombies fast with chained power attacks.  Stun Batons are weak AF but are made to work in tandem with junk turrets.  Knuckles are good at repeatedly stunning an enemy. 

All of them have a significant chance to explode zombie heads automatically, which can defeat stronger zombies much faster than otherwise possible with a melee weapon.  I'd say axes are prolly better than some weapons unperked,  but that's where it ends.

EDIT:  Additional notes:  As I PS I also find people overuse the sledgehammer power attack.  The power attack from that axe that stops your stamina regen does less than a normal attack from your sledge.  There is only a 10 stamina cost difference baseline between axe and sledgehammer, but on a power attack an axe actually uses 60 stamina baseline instead of the listed 30.  So you actually are using more stamina and doing simialar damage compared to a normal sledge attack + the added cost of lack of stamina regen.  For reference Sledge power attack uses 80 stamina baseline, normal uses 40 and axe uses 60/30.  Sexy Rexy ofc reduces that values by as much as 25% normal attack and 50% power attack + ergonomic grip (if you even need it).

I'm sorry but there is a monumentally clear difference here.  If you're gassing out quicker on the sledgehammer you're using it wrong because you can do the same damage for less stamina with the sledge and you're losing your stamina regen with the axe on top of that.

 
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I honestly think you guys are missing a trick not allowing us to salvage objects from POIs intact. There's so many nice new objects, signs, posters that you could use in your base, but you can't take, make or even from the looks of things buy them. Honestly, I'd love to be able to bring home objects for my base (like we used to be able to with the old fridge for instance), it'd be another reason to go out and hit certain POIs.

I know you can get them from the creative cheat menu but I hate having to use that thing. I have to use it for a lot of missing blocks and to make painting less of a clickfest. Hope this part of the game gets some love at some point.
I remember that Madmole talked about something like this some time ago... he was saying that some time (if possible) he would like to give players the possibility to either salvage stuff from POIs or make it available at the traders. I don't know however if that was just idle "pimp dreams" talk or a real possibility for the future.

 
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You've got the strength build to help with the stamina that most other builds will not have.


I use Fire Axe even without Sex Rex, but yeah I wouldn't use it if I didn't have Miner 69 because it definitely wouldn't do as much damage without that.

Also by your own admission you lose the AOE knockdown, but your also losing out on the guaranteed single target knockdown.
It has AoE to some degree, it often staggers ones near my target but I don't know the % chance. It basically always knocks down single target though, I don't know if it even has a chance not to.  Even in the video on the feral military zombie it staggered him on 2/4 hits and he never got an attack off besides the initial one he hit me with, which was mostly just me dealing with OBS stuttering my game while recording

I'm not saying Sledge doesn't have more stagger, just that the Axe has "enough" on it's own. Watch my video if you don't believe me, it staggers or knocks down literally every single zombie it didn't one shot.

Where melee weapon viability kicks in is when you get groups of zombies or face individual tougher zombies like ferals and rads with significant health.  Clubs are good at pummeling tough enemies and keeping them a non danger on the ground and get bonus damage on downed enemies.  Sledges are good at area knockdown and doing high alpha strike damage and get bonus damage on stunned enemies.  Blades are good at hitting multiple zombies quickly and then bailing to let them bleed out and are also very stamina efficient...they also have very high attack speed and can dispatch single zombies fast with chained power attacks.  Stun Batons are weak AF but are made to work in tandem with junk turrets.  Knuckles are good at repeatedly stunning an enemy. 

All of them have a significant chance to explode zombie heads automatically, which can defeat stronger zombies much faster than otherwise possible with a melee weapon.  I'd say axes are prolly better than some weapons unperked,  but that's where it ends.
That's why I say the Axe is good  in all stats, but it's only S tier in block damage. Stamina, Range, Damage, Attacks Per Second, Block Damage, it's basically A tier in all of them. Sledge has S tier damage and F tier speed and stamina, Spear has S tier range and C tier damage etc. The others all have trade offs, but the Axe and Club line are basically "I'm really good at everything but am not the absolute *best* at anything".

I think Axe beats club because Miner 69 is like 400 thousand times more useful than Pummel Pete, especially when the end result is just two very similar weapons. The Axe is a bit slower and takes more stamina than the club I think, but the block damage is much higher so that's why I say they are side grades to each other.

Like if you made a tier list of the weapons, it would look something like (Note, range seems basically broken in A19, you can hit zombies at SUPER long range with basically anything)


Weapon


Damage


DPS


Speed


Range


Stamina


Stun


Spear


C


B


A+


S


B+


D


Club


A


A


A


C+


B+


A


Sledge


S


D


F


B+ / A


F


S


Fire Axe


A


B+


A


A


B+


B+


Knuckles


B


A


S


F


S


A+ / S


Machete


D


C


A+


B


A


C


Stun Baton


F


F


B+


B


A


F? / ???


Junk Sledge


F


B


S


S


SSS


SSS



Disclaimer - (ratings not exact because I don't have the game open with full builds for each weapon type in front of me etc)

You basically end up with the different stuff having different pros and cons, but two stand out as basically being "pretty good" at everything with no major downsides (at least while melee range is buggy). The Club and The Fire Axe are great all around. They have "Enough" in basically every way that you don't *have* to make concessions. 

As for fighting a group with any melee weapon . . .yeah no. I mean you can, depending on what the group is, but if you round the corner into 4 irradiated wights and 5 feral military guys with your knuckles out, they will take them off your hands (with your fingers still in them) and  give your sphincter a knuckle rub with them for you. I wouldn't even use a sledge in a situation like that, that's pure 100% "Oh ****!!!" Shotgun time while you hammer that S key for dear life

I mostly consider melee for 1-5~ish zombies depending on how many are running. In groups that size, the Axe, Club, and Sledge all perform quite well. Machete, Stun Baton, and Spear leave much to be desired, and Knuckles require the magazine line + a lot of perks so it's hit or miss and they are late game. 

Junk Sledge is . . .really weird in handheld mode, it will throw them all over the place but not kill them, but in placement mode it's a fantastic ally if you have enough points and magazines in it. It attacks so fast it can actually dish out okay damage despite it's ridiculously bad damage per hit, but it ragdolls them away so it doesn't actually get that many hits on them before they get yeeted out of the battlefield.  In placement mode with it guarding a door or something, it's SSS tier, in handheld I want to say it's F tier but it's really not, I'd take it over a Machete or Spear or Stun Baton for sure because it will stagger the zombie while you run away

 
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It has AoE to some degree, it often staggers ones near my target but I don't know the % chance. It basically always knocks down single target though, I don't know if it even has a chance not to.  Even in the video on the feral military zombie it staggered him on 2/4 hits and he never got an attack off besides the initial one he hit me with, which was mostly just me dealing with OBS stuttering my game while recording
Those are glancing blows, weapons have a slight arc depending on the swing.  Knockdown/stagger thresholds are based on the weapon and the damage being delivered IIRC.  Resistance to knockdown is determined by the zombie.  Headshots increase the effect.  This is again a case of "great with careful controlled pulls" where you can take your time and aim the headshot and be accurate.  But the times where weapons matter most is when you have to face tough situations.  Being able to chest hit a zed and knock him down guaranteed no matter what the zed is a rather large advantage and in group situations being able to knock down the entire group near them often is HUGE. 

 

I think Axe beats club because Miner 69 is like 400 thousand times more useful than Pummel Pete, especially when the end result is just two very similar weapons. The Axe is a bit slower and takes more stamina than the club I think, but the block damage is much higher so that's why I say they are side grades to each other.
Again on the weakest trash enemies 1-2 at a time anything will do.  Even the Stun Baton on it's own can school them and it's weak AF without it's turret backup.  But for harder targets like high hp ferals and any non-trash rad there will be major differences.  Everything handles easy content well.  Pummel Pete is no joke.  Knocking down enemies is easy with club and then you do hella bonus damage while they are knocked down and it knocks them down allover again.  Club laughes at even irradiated ferals because they'll never get off the ground while you keep doing 200% bonus damage swings to them.  AND clubs do 100% bonus damage every 3rd hit.  That means after 2 normal swings a club would do a 128 base damage power attack.  Very useful for just obliterating another zombie from the one you're working on since that's almost sledge level power attack damage.  Fast swings, reasonable stamina usage. 

Club is definitely and all arounder weapon but it's still one of the best weapons in the game without question if used properly.  AND DON'T FORGET BOOKS!  Batter up gives 10% more club damage, leg power attacks for slow, increased knockdown chance on power attacks, and killing blows with power attacks refill your stamina meter when you collect all the books :).  Maybe one day Sledge will get it's own book too.
 

Weapon


Damage


DPS


Speed


Range


Stamina


Stun


Spear


C


B


A+


S


B+


D


Club


A


A


A


C+


B+


A


Sledge


S


D


F


B


F


S


Fire Axe


A


B+


A


A


B+


B+


Knuckles


B


A


S


F


S


A+ / S


Machete


D


C


A+


B


A


C


Stun Baton


F


F


B+


B


A


F? / ???


Junk Sledge


F


B


S


S


SSS


SSS
You're sleeping on Spears quite alot here.  Spears are fantastic weapons.  The throw has huge stagger/knockdown where even body throws knock an enemy down with 2 normally.  If you're more accurate and can hit head throws it's even better.  Normal attacks are defintiley weak on spears having only range.  So basic combat scenario is either a double throw to knockdown and then running up to finish, throw one and then jab with the other, or throw one and then spike the head with a second throw on the knockdown.  I'm not good enough for head shots consistently but they still do real work even with thrown body shots.  And the biggest thing is, stealth spear throwing.  You can 1 shot so many zombies from stealth with spears.  They are incredibly powerful.  The only real thing they need now is for both spears to go back to your toolbelt if you throw them.  They also have their own spear hunter book series that further increases throw speed and range, increases their damage, makes rapid stabs do 10% more per stab up to +30%, and make power attacks do 50% more to downed targets.  Spears are prolly one of the strongest melee weapons if you include the stealth aspects.  But in normal combat they are good but not best.

Stun baton is an outlier here since you can wield 2 turrets with it so it's not as powerful because of that.  Stun Baton seems to be intended to be used with the turrets or not at all.

Machete is deceptively powerful when used well.  In a straight up fight it's weaker than the others but it's the single best melee weapon (rivaled only by the hunting knife) at killing daytime wandering hordes.  Dot em all up with bleeds and let em die :P.  Hit a zombie with one power attack headshot/body shot and move to the next.  The bleed damage from a single power attack is like 80+ over 20 seconds IIRC PLUS the damage from the strike itself.  For POI usage though you'll prolly be sneak attacking with a power attack in an agility build.  Assuming your not using bows of course.

 

As for fighting a group with any melee weapon . . .yeah no. I mean you can, depending on what the group is, but if you round the corner into 4 irradiated wights and 5 feral military guys with your knuckles out, they will take them off your hands (with your fingers still in them) and  give your sphincter a knuckle rub with them for you. I wouldn't even use a sledge in a situation like that, that's pure 100% "Oh ****!!!" Shotgun time while you hammer that S key for dear life
For daytime groups you isolate the 1-2 feral/rads and eliminate and then mop up the rest.  The game gives you plenty of tools for this.  Doors, blocks, spikes, etc.  Anything more than 2 feral/rad is ranged weapon preferred territory but throwing down a cobblestone block in the bottom of a doorway and then pummeling their faces works too :P.  Sometimes I'll set up my own chokepoints if one doesn't exist.  I've even set the occasional mine behind a closed door for funsies :P.  Most folks have a very narrow view of the possibilities of combat in the game, but there are alot of options.  I've done a few "benny hill music around the counter in the kitchen smacking them in the head" dances before haha :)

For all the non-ferals/rads though taking out a group with melee is cake :).  Painting an encounter out as 4 rad wights and 5 feral soldiers is a bit disingenuous though.  You won't see that kind of crazy outside of treasure rooms normally.

 
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@faatal

When you play 7dtd and say something happens like you're Game Crashes or Power outage while playing and you log back into you're game and you.

  • Spawn in a random area (like the spawn points around them map)
  • spawn with the beginning items
  • you're level 1 and lost everything
  • But everything in the map is still there. Bases, POIs, and everything you explored on you're map is still there! (both In game and the Mini map)
is it suppose to do this? this also happen to MechanicalLens.

it kinda sucks to deal with :(
I don't lose power very often and I have a UPS on my PC and monitors, so that has never happened to me.

I'm sure it does suck. The more often a game saves files, the more likely a file will be in the process of saving when you lose power and be incomplete or corrupted. We have a big world and save a lot of data. We could probably keep multiple copies of the player and some of the other smaller save files and rotate through them. Then a way to load the most recent one that validates as good, but those are not trivial changes. Your best bet now is to backup your game save folder(s) before you start or after you end a play session. There are probably some good backup programs that could do it or 7zip the folder.

 
@faatalI've noticed the game plays brilliantly for me (personally) but when entering a new area the game stutters a fair chunk for a few minutes then is perfect again. My train of though is because I'm entering a new area the map has to generate/populate/render. If my train of thought is correct is there anyway to fully generate/populate/render before starting the game to make things smoother?

 
If you spec into shotguns, then the blunderbuss is so OP with 3+ on your belt.  *Boom-Boom-Boom*  as fast as you can read that you can fire them!

-No stamina loss = no food loss.

-Rock, Paper, scissors er, Gunpowder (made in your hands even, for gods sake).

-Killing 2 or 3 normal zombies with one shot is always a fun sub-game for me!

I've stop squealing with delight when I find my first blunderbuss (usually in my first few days), but I still can't wipe the smile off my face!  LOL

 
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