PC Alpha 18 feedback and balancing thread

[dcsobral]

That seems highly unlikely without 300% block damage and you were stoned at the time so an hour went by and it felt like 5 minutes. On my last guy I mined from dark to dawn in a normal game 60 minutes days, so that had to have been 20 minutes and I got 3k or so. I wasn't maxed out yet, but had at least 3 - 4 ranks of both mining perks and an auger. It typically takes me about 3-5 nights a week to get barely enough mats to make 5k rounds of 762.

Ok, I timed and recorded it. 5 minutes, 36k iron (6 stacks). And this was on a new mine, so I had to clear gravel and find which direction it was going -- after the mine boundaries are well defined, it becomes even faster.

[video=youtube_share;cM67AomdV3A]

 

[Blake_]

Ok, I timed and recorded it. 5 minutes, 36k iron (6 stacks). And this was on a new mine, so I had to clear gravel and find which direction it was going -- after the mine boundaries are well defined, it becomes even faster.
[video=youtube_share;cM67AomdV3A]

Awesome! To get that full moded Auger + Gas takes a bit of time though. It's doable by day 50 if you are fast. You are on day 142. Well deserving late game.

 

[meganoth]

Ok, I timed and recorded it. 5 minutes, 36k iron (6 stacks). And this was on a new mine, so I had to clear gravel and find which direction it was going -- after the mine boundaries are well defined, it becomes even faster.
[video=youtube_share;cM67AomdV3A]

Well, if Blake doesn't do it, I have to do the Captain Obvious schtick: It is a bug. Make a bug report.

 

[bobross]

It is random. If we knee jerk and tone things down from everyone like you who comes in here with an outlier case then guess what? The game is too easy/boring/deleted. Its' fine, deal with it, we have given you 50000 ways to do it its up to you to discover the way that is the right combination of efficient/fun/rewarding to find it.

And at what point does the outlier stop being an outlier? If we've seen 17 Demolishers on Day 21 and 40 on Day 28 with people in their late 20s to mid 30s, I don't imagine it's going to get lighter. I'm also not exaggerating for effect; I went through the log and counted - 34 mentions on Day 21 and 80 on Day 28. That's one entry each for spawn and kill.

I'm actually asking a legit question here, not whining. We're likely restarting a map when 18.2 drops (still talking about it) and we can see if that's a continuing thing or not. I know that you'd mentioned something with reviewing MP gamestage so if it's moot until that gets done, that's fine too, just don't want to waste the testing opportunities.

 

[Gazz]

Well deserving late game.

A lot overlook that little detail when complaining about how OP something is.

One streamer I watched recently was around day 250 and had probably more than half of all book series completed.

Is that OP? Yes. No. It's inevitable if you play long enough.

 

[Hek Harris]

Those are actually pretty good but we just sent of localization to 984 languages(...)

I hope Klingon is part of them.

 

[bobross]

Late game with 5k rounds needed, do you really want to spend ALL your spare time mining? You do need time to get brass.

Nope, and I'm completely comfortable with it if you are. I just wasn't sure if it was a bug or something else needing to be looked at, because 15 minutes to crank out 34k lead is a hell of a lot in a short time. I admit I was surprised as hell when I'd be getting 2, 3, or 4 one-shots in a row, which is part of why I was concerned.

 

[bobross]

That seems highly unlikely without 300% block damage and you were stoned at the time so an hour went by and it felt like 5 minutes. On my last guy I mined from dark to dawn in a normal game 60 minutes days, so that had to have been 20 minutes and I got 3k or so. I wasn't maxed out yet, but had at least 3 - 4 ranks of both mining perks and an auger. It typically takes me about 3-5 nights a week to get barely enough mats to make 5k rounds of 762.

Kind of why I was pointing it out. 15 minutes, 34k lead. Not even kidding. I can feed 4-5 people all the ammo they need except for brass for 2 horde nights right now, and still have several days left over to do fun stuff/get brass. And I had not thought of "iron conversion" as a thing before either - we've actually started getting an excess of iron now.

 

[meganoth]

A lot overlook that little detail when complaining about how OP something is.One streamer I watched recently was around day 250 and had probably more than half of all book series completed.

Is that OP? Yes. No. It's inevitable if you play long enough.

You will probably finish your first book series at about day 50 in SP (if I take my game as a hint) and it is only this one book series you need to be practically improving your mining speed by a factor of 10(?).

This is like having a sword of instant inevitable death in a fantasy game and you can get it midway in the game, but only in every 12th game. It is still unbalanced if it happens only in every 12th game

 

[Liesel Weppen]

Now enough LBD. We'll be handing out infractions for anyone who talks about this long dead horse.

Again regarding the current skill system:

I do NOT ask for LBD (because your last answer to my post assumed that).

But simply give generic buffs to the skills (perception, strength, agility, ...) which are universally usefull and do NOT tie them to specific weapon types.

e.g (just suggestions, not do it exatly this way).

Perception: Increases chance of dismemberment and headshot damage for ANY weapon

Strength: Increase damage and blockdamage for ANY weapon

Fortitude: Increase stamina and health

Agilitiy: Increase movement speed, increase reload speed, increase attack rate for melee

Intelligence: Decrease ressources for crafting, increase amount of harvesting blocks

And limit weapon specific bonuses to only perks, which still may require X points in perception, fortitude, agility...

Then if i maybe skill fortitude just because i want to have living of the land is not completely wasted, because i don't use fists or machine guns, because it gives me a generic buff to stamina and health which brings me effort without using specific items. Maybe then i'd even skill fortitude without using any perk from the fortitude branch.

 

[rdunham3]

Not sure, is there any data that says there is too much food? We are planning a global loot abundance reduction of 20%, so food will take a hit.

Single player it's fine, perhaps just a little more than needed but that depends on your activity level.

Multiplayer it's necessary to go a bit out of your way to keep everyone fed. Cutting food will impact the larger groups (we've had 5 a few times lately) to the point they'll have to buy food or choose food-heavy buildings over others or have everyone be hungry to the point of low stamina.

A side note...why do the piles of food not appear until I'm within 2-3 blocks of them most of the time? Tilt trucks and domed trash cans do the same thing.

 

[dcsobral]

Well, if Blake doesn't do it, I have to do the Captain Obvious schtick: It is a bug. Make a bug report.

I don't consider it a bug. At most, it's balance, and this is the right place for that. But fact is that, if I were still playing, that iron would all go into my forges which are presently emptied out. I'd continue to mine until I got up to something like 120k, 150k iron, so I could refill my forges, get the steel and darts going, and still have some extra to replenish them, and then move on to the next task. I might make one full stack of turret ammo just to make sure I have a reserve for next horde night. It would not fill my mining chest -- which is presently empty of iron --, and I would not try to make money out of it. I mean, aside from making forged iron and steel required for the mods that I add to the equipment I sell to make money.

I don't think it's unbalanced at all. Maybe the auger should have a lower chance of destroying ore. I don't think turret ammo should be sellable at all -- it's just scrap iron, after all --, or, if it is, it should sell for less, at the current stack size. With the original stack size, there was no issue.

I don't get cash this way, and I've got no need for it, but I certainly don't have need for brass either. That said, I use very little ammo on horde night, but a lot of iron (darts).

- - - Updated - - -

And at what point does the outlier stop being an outlier? If we've seen 17 Demolishers on Day 21 and 40 on Day 28 with people in their late 20s to mid 30s, I don't imagine it's going to get lighter. I'm also not exaggerating for effect; I went through the log and counted - 34 mentions on Day 21 and 80 on Day 28. That's one entry each for spawn and kill.
I'm actually asking a legit question here, not whining. We're likely restarting a map when 18.2 drops (still talking about it) and we can see if that's a continuing thing or not. I know that you'd mentioned something with reviewing MP gamestage so if it's moot until that gets done, that's fine too, just don't want to waste the testing opportunities.

Try my easier mp horde nights modlet. If it helps, it might serve as a point of reference for balancing gamestage of groups. How many in the group, by the way? I mean, only the top five gs are counted, but I'm curious.

 

[Gazz]

I don't think it's unbalanced at all. Maybe the auger should have a lower chance of destroying ore.

Yah, that's on my list to look at.

If you look, you'll see that shotgun shells also have a lower decap chance because they roll that dice so often. Otherwise you would get 10x the decaps than with all other weapons.

 

[Shurvir]

I apologize in advance if what i'm asking has already been suggested. First off the ability to rotate the junk turret when placing it imagine this can be achieved by pressing left click. 2 Change the main ability of each main stat i personally feel it is a waste to have all of them just increase headshot damage and soon,add some individuality to each spec. For example Intellect can be about increasing crafting time speed,increasing the hp on traps and the amount of exp they give. Same with the other main stats.

 

[Mainsil]

Early on I got food poisoning from crafted food fairly regularly. Now, in later game stage I have gone for many weeks eating nothing but meat stew (and occasional canned food for inventory management) without getting food poisoning (stat says 4% chance). I'm pretty sure that early on i got food poisoning from meat stew, but now I don't.

Why? Is it health level, or does the game check to avoid giving you food poisoning from the same food twice in a row? Anyone else experiencing this?

Edit: Apparently I was just extremely lucky. Just got food poisoning for the first time in at least 6 game weeks. Liesel Weppon (below) is correct.

 

[meganoth]

I don't consider it a bug. At most, it's balance, and this is the right place for that. But fact is that, if I were still playing, that iron would all go into my forges which are presently emptied out. I'd continue to mine until I got up to something like 120k, 150k iron, so I could refill my forges, get the steel and darts going, and still have some extra to replenish them, and then move on to the next task. I might make one full stack of turret ammo just to make sure I have a reserve for next horde night. It would not fill my mining chest -- which is presently empty of iron --, and I would not try to make money out of it. I mean, aside from making forged iron and steel required for the mods that I add to the equipment I sell to make money.
I don't think it's unbalanced at all. Maybe the auger should have a lower chance of destroying ore. I don't think turret ammo should be sellable at all -- it's just scrap iron, after all --, or, if it is, it should sell for less, at the current stack size. With the original stack size, there was no issue.

When is an imbalance still an imbalance and when can it be called a bug? Part semantics and part how that imbalance comes about IMHO

In this game all(?) bonus damage is sort of independent of the speed of the weapon or tool. 50% dismemberment is not 50% per hit of a knife for example, it is 50% when you have made as much damage as your enemy has hitpoints. This means if you have a fast but low damage weapon and a slow high damage weapon with the same DPS and they both have a 20% chance to stagger the zombie, they will do that the same number of times per minute, the fast weapon has no advantage. (See also Gazz's example of the shotgun)

Now as I see it that "massaging of the chances to depend on DPS" step was overlooked/omitted with that book-buff. Consequently the fast hitting auger is much much better with this buff than the slow pick axe. In fact it is so much better that I would bet an auger without any points into miner69 would beat a pickaxe with 5 points in it. Now I would call that an imbalance caused by a bug or oversight (which is... a bug). Basically it is both imbalance and bug.

Semantics :cocksure:

 

[Liesel Weppen]

Why? Is it health level, or does the game check to avoid giving you food poisoning from the same food twice in a row? Anyone else experiencing this?

Simply bad luck, not more, not less. It's 4% per consumation. No, it does not add up, you will not die for sure on your 25th meal if you not got poisoning on the first 24! You might get poisoning 5 times in a row which is really bad luck, or you might eat 500 stews in a row without food poisoning once, which is good look.

It's the same like asking why other people open the first 5 chests in early game and already get a reasonable tool or weapon and others opened 500 chests an still found no skill book for an auger.

Is it really that hard to understand?

0.02% might die because of vaccination. That means out of 1Mio people 20.000 will die because of the vaccination. It does NOT mean that EXACTLY every 20.000th people will definitely die.

RNG might be an a s s h o l e or the holy grail. Usually it is something in between. If not it's just bad luck or good luck, nothing else.

Madmole already complained about LBD discussions. Can you please ask to stopp discussions about pobability for people who won't get it anyway?

 

[n2n1]

Those are actually pretty good but we just sent of localization to 984 languages so we're not touching anything right now.

...that is, it will be, possible, have support the Cyrillic alphabet in A19?

 

[bobross]

Try my easier mp horde nights modlet. If it helps, it might serve as a point of reference for balancing gamestage of groups. How many in the group, by the way? I mean, only the top five gs are counted, but I'm curious.

Largest group size we've had was 6 at any point, but that wasn't a horde night. We had a Day 21 with 4 players that had 17 Demolishers, after a Day 14 that had numerous Feral Wights and Rads. The Day 28 where we had 40 Demolishers, the game stage was 234 for the party (5 players, individual GS 82, 81, 3x 73).

Is that only going to impact Horde Night, or would it impact wandering hordes and POIs done as groups as well?

 

[Liesel Weppen]

Is that only going to impact Horde Night, or would it impact wandering hordes and POIs done as groups as well?

AFAIK it will also impact wandering hordes and POIs as long as all of you are in a party.

BUT what i read so far POI and wandering horde is capped at GS 800, which you still haven't reached.

If you don't meat up in a party, everybody will only get, what hier own gamestage allows.