PC Alpha 18 feedback and balancing thread

[DeadGerry]

Congratulations on your Steam rating! Unfortunately for many of us we just can’t play your game without mods like Ravenhearst. You guys seem to take 2 steps forwards 2 steps back with your development, you took out the fov slider ffs making the unplayable for many of us, and seem to redo the same damn feature 5 times instead of doing it correctly the first time with some tweaks after. And your arrogant attitude doesn't help. But hey, your 93% rating on steam must mean our criticism isn't valid.

Dude - seriously - think about what you're saying.

'overwhelmingly positive feedback means you're doing something wrong'

There are a LOT of good concerns being raised and solid ideas discussed but this attitude of 'the game isn't set up for my specific needs' doesn't help and makes you very easy to ignore and be rude too. People have been spouting this for - literally - years; and MM etc... have been having the same conversation; it's hard to remain polite when people keep being whiny instead of constructive.

Plenty of Devs make their games Mod unfriendly and don't allow you to backtrack through versions - or make extra DLC mandatory.

people are happy and the minority who are not can Mod or get it modded; this is a good thing. Go back over the bug reports, suggestions and endless complaints of Alpha 17, 16, 15 ,14, 13, 12, 11 etc... to see how and why things have been angled the way they have; and if you can't be bothered to do that then at least speak in the knowledge that you're speaking in the absence of knowledge.

'I play like this; this is my experience' is something the Devs can easily read and take the relevant info from.

'I really hate this cos it's crap and I don't care what 93% of people think' is something you either ignore or shoot down lickity quick.

I got an old rig, and yes - the optimisation hasn't been plain sailing, and several times I've had to wait a few weeks for a playable game; but that's a MILLION times better than my experience with Ark; and it IS CONSTANTLY being worked on.

What other game do you play that something like that is constantly being worked on?

 

[HungryZombie]

Congratulations on your Steam rating! Unfortunately for many of us we just can’t play your game without mods like Ravenhearst. You guys seem to take 2 steps forwards 2 steps back with your development, you took out the fov slider ffs making the unplayable for many of us, and seem to redo the same damn feature 5 times instead of doing it correctly the first time with some tweaks after. And your arrogant attitude doesn't help. But hey, your 93% rating on steam must mean our criticism isn't valid.

You totally have the wrong perspective here. Why getting so salty because the game dev's along withmany steam users, don't agree with what you find fun?

Be happy and appreciate how awesome it is this game can be so easily modded in a way that makes it something special to you and that you enjoy? Why do you have such bitterness because everyone is not listening to your way?

Sure tell them your feedback why something can be done better like many others do but not sure why your so offended.

 

[Kalen]

What is it you want to craft? Or is it you don't need to craft, or is it you cannot craft the best gear?

For me, I haven't had to craft nearly as much as I have in past alphas as more often than not I loot what I would've crafted. Honestly, I'm not yet sure if this is good or bad but I'm leaning toward not liking it.

 

[canadianbluebeer]

It will be like it is now, except smashing into things will have a chance to mess up your ride, so going off road will have some risks.

Then please, either A) have the trader stop putting quests in the middle of the badlands, b) give us an off-road vehicle.

Granted, when the quest is at the top of a mesa, yer NOT getting yer motorcycle up there. But just off-road?

Seriously, a standard Jeep Wranger does just fine off road, no modifications required, IF you take it easy and

don't be stupid.

Go zipping along at top speed? Yeah, yer gonna break it. Slow speed? easy peasy.

(ok, on flat plains, or desert? zoom zoom. Flat snow? Oh gods, it's playtime!!! heh)

(had a jeep for 20 yrs. wore the poor thing out)

 

[bobross]

Not even close. All you do is build a basic solid foundation 3 meters high to stand on and you are fine. One who puts nothing but an iron bar between him and death has nothing to blame for his demise but himself.

So, only your way to play is acceptable?

Dude, you actively invented this entire penetration system where a single round can take out 2, 3, 4 zeds a shot, and then the best way to use it is to stand 3 meters up in the air so you're shooting down at an angle that guarantees, at best, two targets in a line? Come on...

This is the primary reason why people have been asking for steel bars for ages; they want to build a semi-sane bunker point to defend from, and that requires field of view at ground level. The only way currently to achieve that is iron bars. If that's the only thing you're putting down, sure you're a sucker and you deserve what you get, but being told the only proper way to play is build an actual tower and if we don't like it, it's our fault? Come on, you're better than that.

 

[Nugetti]

I've enjoyed A18 so far. I've been playing on my own till about level 25 and now we've been playing a separate co-op game with a friend till day 30 / level 60-ish (with 200% exp).

Key feedback gathered from our "playthrough":

+ Books and schematics are amazing. Makes looting much more exciting.

+ Block shape selector feels like a gigantic QoL improvement.

++ Performance feels much more stable than A17 (stutters almost gone) and we've had zero crashes or gamebreaking bugs.

+ Visually the game looks great.

+ New POIs are a welcome addition.

+ Overall the gameplay and progression feel pretty solid.

- Quests get very repetitive quickly. For now, I don't mind that there's only so many quest types, but the locations feel way too limited. I'd rather travel farther to get new quest POIs than do the same buildings over and over again. Perhaps a check to see if the player owns a vehicle and/or has done this specific POI more than once --> offer quests a bit farther away if new locations cannot be found nearby. As we've reached Tier V quests, gameplay quickly gets repetitive if there's only 4 or 5 POIs to quest in.

- INT tree feels a bit lacking, or rather I get the feeling that I should be spending more points on other things. I'd enjoy a proper ranged handheld weapon to have better offensive capabilities. A 4x4 in the yard and workstations in my base won't help me clear out POIs or fight blood moon hordes.

Can't wait for A19.

Spoiler

While Louie04k has a potty mouth, there is still a valid point within that spewing of words --> The FoV slider is still missing and it really is a reason to not play for some people. If not for the console command, I don't think I'd play either.

 

[Scyris]

It will be like it is now, except smashing into things will have a chance to mess up your ride, so going off road will have some risks.

Ahh ok then thats not to bad, just make sure to avoid hitting things, this fixes what I was worried about. I generally avoid hitting things as much as possible anyway.

 

[Scyris]

Demolisher feedback:
In a 2 player coop game, they appear far too early (< day 28), and in greater numbers than can be reasonably handled (2-3 at a time).

If one detonates during a 7 day horde, it can punch a hole through iron bars on it's own. At that point, its not when, but if, you will die. Tone down the explosion block damage. They completely wreck any and all electrical defenses.

If it's detonation countdown begins, it cannot be stopped, and is too easy to trigger. Unfun.

Once it is dead, it's detonation countdown can still be triggered. Unfun.

Blade traps at *head height* will trigger it, and means all your defenses are guaranteed to get wrecked. Unfun.

Their sole purpose seems to be to screw over legit base designs. Cheese fall/ramp loop bases still work. No tactics are required, or even work: just cheese it, drive all night, or get breached.

I'm sure in design, someone thought they would be scary. They're not. They're just overpowered to the point of annoyance. Been playing since A12. This is the first time I genuinely thought about quitting, and I'm normally super forgiving about this stuff.

Thematic note #1: How does one become zombified whilst an *active* demo charge is strapped to your chest. The mob makes no sense.

Thematic note #2: It's too similar to cops, who, tbh, now that they can spit through bars, are far more interesting (and scary) to deal with.

In short, the demolisher is redundant, boring, annoying, overpowered, and add very little to the game that cops don't already, besides being a bullet sponge.

This can be countered somewhat if they allowed iron bars to be upgraded to steel bars with 7000 hp for 10 steel or so. Would take about 2 or 3 demo explosions at point blank then to destroy those.

 

[Gazz]

Dude, you actively invented this entire penetration system where a single round can take out 2, 3, 4 zeds a shot, and then the best way to use it is to stand 3 meters up in the air so you're shooting down at an angle that guarantees, at best, two targets in a line? Come on...

You got that wrong. In order to maximise penetration, the best place to be about level with the zombies.

I've never seen MM post that everyone should build a tower.

 

[Amanitasec]

How hard and possible would be to implement one more tab in character info, where we would have all weapon (range and melee) statistic there, like:

9mm - total shots, hits, acc, kills;

smg... ?

 

[Scyris]

Because we make the rules. In our universe you need to be strong to use a shotgun and agile to use a blade. Mod it out and swap the knife with the club if that is your fantasy. We can't fulfill every combination of every fantasy to make every player happy. We do what we feel are nice buckets for average guys. LBD let you do what you wanted, but at a grindy stupid cost, we feel that attributes are better as there is actual choice instead of grind to be awesome at everything.

That "grindy stupid cost" made way more sense than the current system does.. just saying. You wanted to get good at using clubs? you had to actually use clubs, to raise their skill then you can perk into it to make it even more effective. It makes way more sense than now where you mine spend a few points and magically your a knife expert having never touched one before. I do admit crafting quality had to be removed from a LBD skill and rather be determined by the perk level of the weapon type you wanna make, like it is in A18.

 

[rdunham3]

You got that wrong. In order to maximise penetration, the best place to be about level with the zombies.
I've never seen MM post that everyone should build a tower.

You misunderstood him, Gazz, he was saying the penetrating ammo was added but the demolisher was also added and he was getting conflicting messages from the two. "fight from above" vs "fight at ground level to maximize number of bodies your shots pass through"

In reality it's all about the choices you make, and the game has now offered up another reason to choose ground AND another reason to choose elevated. Or, if you fall off your elevated perch, a way to recover by switching ammo types...

- - - Updated - - -

We're planning some gathering quests.

Might I suggest (gonna anyway) that the perk that gives you more quest rewards also give you more quest choices, and not just at your maximum current tier?

 

[DeadGerry]

So, only your way to play is acceptable?
Dude, you actively invented this entire penetration system where a single round can take out 2, 3, 4 zeds a shot, and then the best way to use it is to stand 3 meters up in the air so you're shooting down at an angle that guarantees, at best, two targets in a line? Come on...

This is the primary reason why people have been asking for steel bars for ages; they want to build a semi-sane bunker point to defend from, and that requires field of view at ground level. The only way currently to achieve that is iron bars. If that's the only thing you're putting down, sure you're a sucker and you deserve what you get, but being told the only proper way to play is build an actual tower and if we don't like it, it's our fault? Come on, you're better than that.

I think the point is that you're getting conflicting signals exactly because there IS more than one way to do it. MM giving gameplay advice is only one player giving his opinion, he stands on a tower raining explosives - you can make a cage and fire head on with AP rounds - but both have to do due diligence in having protection, backup plans and trying different systems.

I've found at least 4 different horde strategies and base designs specifically aimed at getting around the demolisher, and while one is clearly an AI exploit the others are not - and I'm not really actively LOOKING or thinking about it.

I ain't seen ANYBODY playing the way MM does on lets plays or in the games I've played - and nobodies got a 'must have' answer yet - indicating multiple viable options; you seem to be annoyed that the one you want to work isn't amongst them - and that's not a very strong argument.

 

[Brian9824]

We're planning some gathering quests.

Thats nice to hear. Sometimes I just don't want to kill, or don't have the time to commit to a large t5 quest, but I can always put in some time gathering resources, crafting, and working towards a quest like that.

 

[Scyris]

Thats nice to hear. Sometimes I just don't want to kill, or don't have the time to commit to a large t5 quest, but I can always put in some time gathering resources, crafting, and working towards a quest like that.

I generally avoid t5 quests like the plague, they usually are not worth the time taken to do them at all. Most of the t5 poi's lack loot to make it worth the time it takes, The gun factory and shamway factory expecially, the hospital and apt building as kinda better though. The big crack a book tower is another poi that in a17 and up is now a waste of time to even bother with as they removed almost all the bookstore boxes you can open.

 

[Brian9824]

So, only your way to play is acceptable?
Dude, you actively invented this entire penetration system where a single round can take out 2, 3, 4 zeds a shot, and then the best way to use it is to stand 3 meters up in the air so you're shooting down at an angle that guarantees, at best, two targets in a line? Come on...

Says who? Make them run up a ramp for instance, climb stairs to slow them down, etc.

It's not so much as you have to play his way, its that your dead set on 1 particular way of playing that you aren't considering other options and adapting to it. You could easily have an elevated bunker with iron bar floors that are more then 3 blocks off the floor so your safe from demolishers. The trick then is to funnel em or to protect your base.

I mean no reason you can't use a bunker on ground floor too. Just prioritize the demolishers and make the bunker have multiple layers if one gets breached.

That "grindy stupid cost" made way more sense than the current system does.. just saying. You wanted to get good at using clubs? you had to actually use clubs, to raise their skill then you can perk into it to make it even more effective. It makes way more sense than now where you mine spend a few points and magically your a knife expert having never touched one before. I do admit crafting quality had to be removed from a LBD skill and rather be determined by the perk level of the weapon type you wanna make, like it is in A18.

Yeah i think that was the issue. It worked great for action skills, but for stuff like armor, crafting, etc it failed horribly. Ideally a hybrid system that incorporates a little of both is ideal, but the same issues occur though. You kill zombies and all of a sudden your better at crafting armor....

 

[madmole]

I agree it’s better now. The dude I quoted was advocating for renaming strength and agility etc to something that fits the trees better. I wasn’t advocating for a regression to A17 skill trees, trust me

Sounds good. I'm not against renaming them, as things evolve from simple concept to prototype to final product these things can come under the spotlight, but does it add any value? One guys idea of what "Close Combat" is to the next could vary and cause even more confusion than "Strength" supposedly does. To me it all makes sense, but of course I designed it based on my perception of the world. My roots as a D&D Player say to keep it simple and it is what it is. The perk names have cool flavor names, to me changing attribute names to flavor names could cause more confusion. F.E. "Close Combat has nothing to do with Mining. "Ranged Fighter" has nothing to do with picking locks, etc. I think we already landed on the best attribute names tbh.

 

[Laz Man]

Throwing a spear takes more technique and practice (perception) than raw strength. Using a knife is about speed. Often as you know, in UFC when things get ugly and two guys start throwing bombs, the one with the good chin (tough/fortitude) is the last man standing.
We had the strength for all melee, perception for all rifles... and it sucked remember? A17? What makes sense or is realistic is almost always bad for game design.

Since what you guys have done with perks is not cookie cutter (which can be a good thing) maybe what's missing is a better tutorial for how the system works.

For example, a loading screen that shows a high level view of what strength Grant's players (e.g. what melee wpn, ranged wpn, etc.)

 

[madmole]

Congratulations on your Steam rating! Unfortunately for many of us we just can’t play your game without mods like Ravenhearst. You guys seem to take 2 steps forwards 2 steps back with your development, you took out the fov slider ffs making the unplayable for many of us, and seem to redo the same damn feature 5 times instead of doing it correctly the first time with some tweaks after. And your arrogant attitude doesn't help. But hey, your 93% rating on steam must mean our criticism isn't valid.

All that rant over an FOV slider? Who is being arrogant besides you, who has a lot of balls to say the game is unplayable without mods? We redo things because either A, the public didn't like it, or B, it was a placeholder while other systems were being developed to properly do the feature. If you don't like changing systems then don't participate in EA.

What criticism? All you have done is complain and mention our development process of changing things. Design them right the first time, yeah thanks captain obvious. Thank you for the well thought out careful critique we can throw in the trash because you didn't actually say anything other than you are angry and the FOV slider bugs you.

 

[madmole]

For me, I haven't had to craft nearly as much as I have in past alphas as more often than not I loot what I would've crafted. Honestly, I'm not yet sure if this is good or bad but I'm leaning toward not liking it.

We are aware of this and working on the loot tables.