PC Alpha 18 feedback and balancing thread

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Is the melee combat being worked on? There has been many demonstrations on how inconsistent it is.

As I mentioned in my thread about the melee mechanic, it shouldn't be that hard to hit a soccer ball on a slow moving teeball stand with a club.

 
It would be cool to link it with random events. For example you will overheat the engine and need to cool it down. The smoke will attract some zombies and you need to fend them off before you can continue
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It's all about recreating all those horrific things that happen in the movies :)

 
I am a bit concerned that legendary items will overshadow most books. I think it is important that they either complement each other or have specific niches. It might be problematic if they did the same thing.
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It is going to be actual minigame? Or you will just stare at your car for x seconds?
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Depends, I have like 3 designs now I will present to the team. Edit: Can we focus on balance? I'm as guilty as everyone else talking about new stuff but I don't have the time, so lets keep the thread about balance.

 
I sort of knew when TFP started using the word fun to describe why things were being changed or removed that it was going to eventually get taken too far. And now the community has latched on to that word like a vulture.
Not every game mechanic has to be fun in order to be balanced and present. Death isnt fun. Weapons needing repairs isnt fun. But they are vital to progression and resource sinking. Vehicle breakdowns will be no different. Right now vehicles are a ticket to ride free of any threats. Thats terribly unbalanced. And breakdowns CAN be fun. Imagine fending off a vehicle that broke down in the dead of night. It is quintessential tension.
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Yes, well said! That is how I feel about it.

 
Also played Empyrion and it has some nice details, like you said the behaviour of spiders. But Empyrion is also a good example what happens without events like Bloodmoons. From some stage the game becomes pointless. Only thing you can do against that is PVP.
What i'd prefer would be different events with different difficulties occuring randomly, so not beeing predictable. Bloodmoon can be made (more or less) random already, which we already use.

I think about rimworld... of course its no FPS, but it has various different events happening. Heatwaves, coldwaves, pirateattack, alien poison ship landing nearby, bugs breaking out just in your base, "radiation" which makes only male or only female chars sick, manhunting animals, happening of foil which destroys all your plants if not countered in time.

Sure you can't apply them easily to 7d2d and maybe even if you can it would require features which are not in the game (yet). (Like a real weather-system, with local weather events that may even make your forrest biome become a snow landscape, plants will die in cold and heat, etc, or even (moving) poison fog clouds (like in Empyrion ;) )

Id even appreciate mini-"bloodmoons"... Bloodmoon is just difficult, because it throws a ♥♥♥♥load of Zs on you. Wandering hordes are to easy on the other side, they are not even aggressive until triggerd. Why no occasionally attacks on your base, but not with full gamestage-power, but only maybe 10-25% of what would come on a real bloodmoon?
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Agree with all of the above. Empyrion is more "make your own bloodmoon" after drone base is destroyed. Maybe an option tab "random events" would help those that think dying by a freak encounter is too harsh. Personally I like the (rare) possibility. The randomisation of the bloodmoon was an epic feature, and Id love to see unscripted aggressive mini hordes too. A good idea may be to spawn 2 or 3 small groups at different vectors, giving the surrounded feeling, instead of one large group conga lining.

 
I agree with this wholly. Some of our most memorable experiences occurred during some unplanned off the cuff moments involving failed base design on a hrode night or a wandering horde happening upon you during a poi hunt. Fun by the definition of it probably not. But memorable and exciting.
I can definitely see breakdowns and repairs if not over used becoming oh ♥♥♥♥ moments that are memorable. Things like your passenger fending off some running zeds while you frantically repair your car sound like perfect RP/story telling moments you can share. I think sometimes people take this a bit too seriously when it comes to just immersing and enjoying the overall experience.

Not everything needs to be telegraphed.
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To me those emergent moments when planning fails and you somehow adapt and survive are the most memorable ones, to me and people who watch my videos. Falling through a spot I forgot to put bars on, my turret destroying my gyro, dropping my bow were all unplanned oh ♥♥♥♥ moments that happen.

 
So the first purple you find isn't end game, and you keep looking for better ones. Random stats make it interesting and afaik, the player base loves them. The color just means it has higher roll probabilities and generally will be superior, but it adds a ton of choice which is good. Maybe degradation is annoying to you, so you choose a high degradation item with a little less damage than the higher damage one with less degradation.
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YES YES.. I one of many love the random stats. To be honest I love everything random as this means never ending variety and replay-ability.

MM

I know your working on possible breakdowns for vehicles, can you give us random vehicle specs to like with the weapons ?

i.e Speed, Durability, Fuel Capacity.

 
Thats because more often than not... they are. Not only saying for 7dtd but in many other games, they put in new features that end up being in the worst way possible. If your going to have bumpy roads/terrain cause it, you need to smooth out terrian in rwg a bit more, a ton more in the snow/desert biome, the snow mountains are in no ways smooth, they are super bumpy. I'd also like to see gas miledge be better if we are going to have to take the long way around at times. As with all new features I reserve final judgement till I try it for myself, but on paper it just sounds like nothing but an annoyance being put into the game for no reason other than to be annoying.
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Do it yourself, its a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ed apocalypse.

 
I really hope that we will get events that are as random as they are difficult to manage.
Madmole seems slightly obsessed with the blood moon but to be honest it's far from being my favorite feature. During many alphas there was no blood moon and the game was no less awesome.

In a survival, we all seek a form of routine to ensure our safety. This routine must be jostled regularly by vicious devs (who said with a german accent ?) to keep the game exciting.

So yes, I want REAL random hordes that come running, I want my vehicle to crash, I want to be sick at the worst time, I want everything not to be predictable.

And I want rivers of tears on the forum, of course.
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Put down the crack pipe there has been a horde night since the beginning. We added a red moon to help signify the event, but its been there since day 1. Put the blood moon on random then, there are options for it.

 
That's why I miss wellness and what could have be done with that feature ;) Vehicle breakdown should lower your morale and add a risk to get sick later... Depressiveness should have is own bar...
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I hated that ♥♥♥♥ in state of decay. Sorry I'm super positive/motivated IRL and going to role play if my character is happy/depressed etc, I don't need a game dictating how my character feels in various situations.

 
So the first purple you find isn't end game, and you keep looking for better ones. Random stats make it interesting and afaik, the player base loves them. The color just means it has higher roll probabilities and generally will be superior, but it adds a ton of choice which is good. Maybe degradation is annoying to you, so you choose a high degradation item with a little less damage than the higher damage one with less degradation.
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I'm growing to like it, made a decision yesterday...more powerful weapon, or more mod slots. Since I deemed adding a rad remover more important than the power I took the less powerful one. Darn you for making me think, and maybe do maths!

 
YES YES.. I one of many love the random stats. To be honest I love everything random as this means never ending variety and replay-ability.

MM

I know your working on possible breakdowns for vehicles, can you give us random vehicle specs to like with the weapons ?

i.e Speed, Durability, Fuel Capacity.
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Maybe, that is a slippery slope because that means guys who find the schematics are only crafting brown ones.

 
Yeah I think I'd prefer just one quality for vehicles since everyone needs them, not just Int users. Would be nice if Grease Monkey also reduced gas usage to give it ongoing value.

 
SUGESTION/BALANCE

TFP, are there any plans to streamline the recipes available only to the Table Saw across all materials?

IMO all block shapes should be available to all frames/blocks. (Rebar Frames for Reinforced Concrete blocks only have 3 shapes, but we can still craft all shapes by just upgrading blocks, so that limitation is trivial).

Also, a wooden and metal furniture set (excluding the storage box wich should require no nails) could only be buildable in the Table Saw. As a general rule, that station should be a prerequisite for nicer decoration, allow us to craft a simple wooden furniture set unlocked in the Workbench and metal set in the Forge, and a nicer and larger set for the Table Saw, BUT requiring forged iron in the case of the metal set.

Another thing to revisit is the number of slots for each block, a crude and cheap hand-made storage chest has more space than a big and more expensive cabinet...

And on related topic, could it be posible to have a crafting station check the near presence of another crafting station when listing available recipes? This way, both the Forge and the Workbench can have other recipes unlocked by just placing down the Table Saw nearby and metal furniture crafting still requires fuel and can take advantage of the Forge tools.

 
Feedback for Strength and Fortitude

I think its more appropriate for Strength to have the Living off the Land Perk instead of Fortitude, since Str has the Master Chef perk and needs it more. Fort honestly in this case wouldn't miss it.

 
Some of the devs are veterans, they know weapons. ;)
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veteran ≠ knowledgeable about weapons.

even guys in combat arms are familiar with the 4 or 5 platforms they are issued or expected to carry and thats it.

but if they are weapons experts and have any time behind the trigger the gun handling and gun play in this game should be a major concern of theirs because its a mess.

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Veteran here. I know plenty of active-duty military who couldn't tell which end of the rifle the bullet comes from without a drill sergeant yelling down their throat.
Not to mention the entire military are trained in the use of ONE weapon. We don't get the Call of Duty loadouts nor the training to go outside of an M16 and MAYBE a SAW.

But then I was in Intelligence.
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here here. I hardly touched firearms when I was in the USAF it was not until my civilian sport shooting days did I become so well versed.

 
veteran ≠ knowledgeable about weapons.
even guys in combat arms are familiar with the 4 or 5 platforms they are issued or expected to carry and thats it.

but if they are weapons experts and have any time behind the trigger the gun handling and gun play in this game should be a major concern of theirs because its a mess.

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here here. I hardly touched firearms when I was in the USAF it was not until my civilian sport shooting days did I become so well versed.
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This isn't helpful. How about pinpointing specifics?

 
Gun nuts will do their thing. That's one of the constants in life. Just nod and smile. =)
That all the rifles fire a "7.62mm" caliber is as close as it gets in a computer game. Note that we never specify if that's "x51" or "x39". =)

At the engagement ranges in this game it's also completely irrelevant.

Someone suggested re-chambering all the rifles in 5.56 but... the marksman rifle (looks like a G3 variant) and an M60 firing 5.56? This is some multiverse Earth-2 talk.

The weapon models were picked and created by artists.

The MP5SD model was obviously picked oblivious of the fact that it has an integrated suppressor. I guess it was "a cool looking SMG". Now you get to attach a "silencer" to an MP5SD. Because reasons.

It was then put into the game as firing a 10mm round. (my guess: because Fallout makes that a thing)

So to anyone unhappy over the state of gun nuttery in 7D2D: Smile and be happy. It could be worse.
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hopefully it gets better.

I liked the idea of the sub machinegun being a mp5/10 because I was a tom clancy rainbow six fan (the novel not the game). However in practice it was a bit of a turd.

bring back 10mm give us a Glock 20, add more calibers, maybe make mods that change a weapons caliber... add a M4/m16/AR15 this game is based in a fictionalized america is it not?

 
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