PC Alpha 18 Dev Diary!!

[naive1000]

Just wondering, are they going to add back the centered half blocks? I have a friend playing who wants to fix some of the walls in game that the zombies have destroyed.

 

[Doombringer101]

Just wondering, are they going to add back the centered half blocks? I have a friend playing who wants to fix some of the walls in game that the zombies have destroyed.

Unknown.

I would suggest adding a crafting recipe for them in the mean time so your friend can make those repairs.

 

[SrslyGTFO]

Me and my 3 man crew struggled hard too, but survival is teh name of the game. We eventually over came that hurdle, but for up to day 20ish I think, it was always looting to eat, not just looting for gear and books.
Stick to it, I too think that a18 is a great step forward. The farming tree is still very important IMO, but lucky I had someone do taht tree and freed me up to do my own skill tree. If solo, I'd still start with farming then move to other trees.

Playing solo, I find so much canned food, it's never a problem. I farm only because it's something to do, not because I have to. This is a possible balance issue. I just now realized that my Steam settings reverted and I wasn't getting experimental builds anymore, so I haven't tried 18.2 yet. I didn't see any notes about lowering the canned food loot amount, so we'll see how that goes.

 

[Roland]

. I can't understand why they did it.

I can help. They did it first to reduce the amount of indicators on the screen. When they originally removed the food and water bar there was no integration. They simply removed them to reduce the number of bars from four to two. This was in Alpha 13 when they also implemented the pop up notifications as well as the sound effects.

It’s also important to remember that at the time there were zero negative effects for hunger or thirst until they actually reached absolute zero.

With the ample warnings of both visual and auditory types it was felt that uncluttering the world view was a good thing.

Eventually they moved to the integrated survival system we have now. With the current system a food bar would just be redundant because the stamina bar literally is the food bar. The ISS was developed to show the connection between calories and stamina as well as hydration and recovery. They wanted max stamina and current stamina. They wanted max health and current health. They wanted some damage to effect max health and some to effect current health and allow food to recover some current hp but only first aid to recover the max hp. They wanted to be able to represent this with the two bars they already had knowing that a third bar for stealth was being added to the hud.

The ISS is more complex than simple food and water bars but as Meganoth explained, it does the job and represents what the devs intend really well. It’s flaw is requiring from the player a bit of a learning curve. Once learned you can easily survive without any problem and have plenty of health and stamina.

What you cannot easily do Is obsessively keep your food topped at between 140-150% unless you mod the game to let you do that— and playing the feel-satisfied-with-a-topped-off-bar game definitely sounds like a mod to me anyway...or an iPhone game.

 

[Laz Man]

I can help. They did it first to reduce the amount of indicators on the screen. When they originally removed the food and water bar there was no integration. They simply removed them to reduce the number of bars from four to two. This was in Alpha 13 when they also implemented the pop up notifications as well as the sound effects.
It’s also important to remember that at the time there were zero negative effects for hunger or thirst until they actually reached absolute zero.

With the ample warnings of both visual and auditory types it was felt that uncluttering the world view was a good thing.

Eventually they moved to the integrated survival system we have now. With the current system a food bar would just be redundant because the stamina bar literally is the food bar. The ISS was developed to show the connection between calories and stamina as well as hydration and recovery. They wanted max stamina and current stamina. They wanted max health and current health. They wanted some damage to effect max health and some to effect current health and allow food to recover some current hp but only first aid to recover the max hp. They wanted to be able to represent this with the two bars they already had knowing that a third bar for stealth was being added to the hud.

The ISS is more complex than simple food and water bars but as Meganoth explained, it does the job and represents what the devs intend really well. It’s flaw is requiring from the player a bit of a learning curve. Once learned you can easily survive without any problem and have plenty of health and stamina.

What you cannot easily do Is obsessively keep your food topped at between 140-150% unless you mod the game to let you do that— and playing the feel-satisfied-with-a-topped-off-bar game definitely sounds like a mod to me anyway...or an iPhone game.

I think all that is missing is some type of tutorial on how stamina/food/thirst works and I'm not talking about a journal note.

The journal notes are akin to an operations manual, most people dont read them or would refer not to. Dont get me wrong, I think the journal notes is a good start but would hope to see more intuitive designs the closer we get to v1.0. (e.g. forced journal pop ups (can be disabled) the 1st time the player gets hungry/thristy, quest-based tutorial like the starter quest that tasks the player with gathering water and food)

 

[Weazelsun]

I think all that is missing is some type of tutorial on how stamina/food/thirst works and I'm not talking about a journal note.
The journal notes are akin to an operations manual, most people dont read them or would refer not to. Dont get me wrong, I think the journal notes is a good start but would hope to see more intuitive designs the closer we get to v1.0. (e.g. forced journal pop ups (can be disabled) the 1st time the player gets hungry/thristy, quest-based tutorial like the starter quest that tasks the player with gathering water and food)

The tutorial as it is pretty barebones, in that it gets the player started but doesn't truly teach them anything.

 

[n2n1]

I can help. They did it first to reduce the amount of indicators on the screen. When they originally removed the food and water bar there was no integration. They simply removed them to reduce the number of bars from four to two. This was in Alpha 13 when they also implemented the pop up notifications as well as the sound effects.
It’s also important to remember that at the time there were zero negative effects for hunger or thirst until they actually reached absolute zero.

With the ample warnings of both visual and auditory types it was felt that uncluttering the world view was a good thing.

Eventually they moved to the integrated survival system we have now. With the current system a food bar would just be redundant because the stamina bar literally is the food bar. The ISS was developed to show the connection between calories and stamina as well as hydration and recovery. They wanted max stamina and current stamina. They wanted max health and current health. They wanted some damage to effect max health and some to effect current health and allow food to recover some current hp but only first aid to recover the max hp. They wanted to be able to represent this with the two bars they already had knowing that a third bar for stealth was being added to the hud.

The ISS is more complex than simple food and water bars but as Meganoth explained, it does the job and represents what the devs intend really well. It’s flaw is requiring from the player a bit of a learning curve. Once learned you can easily survive without any problem and have plenty of health and stamina.

What you cannot easily do Is obsessively keep your food topped at between 140-150% unless you mod the game to let you do that— and playing the feel-satisfied-with-a-topped-off-bar game definitely sounds like a mod to me anyway...or an iPhone game.

Thank you Roland!

This system i do not like because of my sensitivity to the comfort of perception. It turns out that on the one hand they wanted to simplify the HUD (initially) but as a result it turned out to be difficult and clumsy (of course only in my opinion).

I'll explain why.

The described idea is really good in the imagination, but in reality, even if it is implemented as planned - it conflicts with the perception of the person as such. Not everyone can notice this flaw of communication immediately. But a lot of people will still feel it, later... that will be completely unexpected for developers.

I can't go into psychology right now, this has to do with really complicated things.

In short - it's not intuitive.

Let's just say - if this information was broadcast directly into my consciousness - then it was all right OK.

But all this is projected exactly on the plane of the screen - and consequently, for the brain, undergoes a transformation which should not be. In other words, abstractly, when everything works correctly - the representation of the many strips on the screen is the middle, the lens for the projector beam, when it passes to the screen (our perception) and there is already projected in the form of the system they made now.

This system has no place on the COMPUTER screen.

This system should arise in the head of the player, through the transmission of information using 4 bars on the screen.

...What you cannot easily do Is obsessively keep your food topped at between 140-150% unless you mod the game to let you do that— and playing the feel-satisfied-with-a-topped-off-bar game definitely sounds like a mod to me anyway...or an iPhone game.

Do you know why there are so many visual indicator in the plane?

In order for the pilot to notice the trend before something happens. And their system - is an alarm that sounds when the plane is already falling.

I think - this is one of the mistakes, for which in consequence will criticize the game when it is released... But we'll see.

 

[ecv]

We can only speculate about some of the reasons, usually there are more than one. But at a guess:
3) It also simulates (with a little abstracting) that the more you work the more tired you get and eventually need to eat again. More abstract is that it also heals you, but that is probably done for game balance instead of immersion. Water has a more subtle influence, just like in reality

Isn't water the other way around? Much more important than food. I can not eat and work for a week, but without water I'd soon be a withering heap

Other than that, I totally agree, the hud shows all required information. Perhaps not aesthetically perfect, but the info is there

 

[Roland]

Do you know why there are so many visual indicator in the plane?

In order for the pilot to notice the trend before something happens. And their system - is an alarm that sounds when the plane is already falling.

I think - this is one of the mistakes, for which in consequence will criticize the game when it is released... But we'll see.

There are visual indicators in this system before anything bad happens. The first is when your max stamina shrinks from the right edge of the bar and that negative space starts widening. At this point there is still plenty of stamina to do anything you want and there are no detrimental consequences to your health or well-being. The max stamina shrinking from the right edge is an early warning sign.

The second warning is when the orange hunger icon pops up on the left side of the screen. This tells you that soon you will begin to experience negative consequences from being hungry so you should go and eat immediately.

The final warning is when the red hunger icon pops up and you begin to experience health consequences that grow more dire as time goes on.

Hunger, like flying a plane, is a serious matter which is why the ISS gives so many warning indicators that we can pay attention to and course correct as needed. The problem is that some people never want their hunger meter to ever dip below 140% much less ever seeing the slightest hint of a sliver of black showing up on the right side of their stamina bar. Even though there truly is nothing limiting or harmful about being at 90% max stamina other than being an indicator that you could eat something, they cannot...uh...stomach it.

I wouldn't mind appeasing those people with a small green line at the bottom of the stamina bar that shows fullness levels from 100% to 150% since I really do think THAT is truly the crux of the whole matter. But I would be sad indeed to lose the current system to just four separate bars.

 

[Damocles]

There is no problem adding hunger and thirst makers to the UI as an option.

And Im sure 90% of player would want to have them there.

This "indirect" method of signaling hunger and thirst is not more atmospheric, its just annoying.

As it makes the player have to open some submenu to see the actual value.

This also does not need to be some fat bar, but simply little % number text fields.

If the indicator screen should be less visible, the sidemenu with detail information could clap out on demand (when opening the inventory screen for example, or as option only when a number falls below 100%)

 

[Roland]

As it makes the player have to open some submenu to see the actual value.

I'm kind of partial to the idea of players who think they must see the actual value of 96% in order to survive, having to do all the work of opening the character status screen to see it. I really think it is just "menu", btw. While saying "submenu" does make it seem more laborious to delve deep into the obscure informational screens of the game to find that hunger %--it's just one button to open the character status menu.

Now the journal entries? Those ARE the Submenus of Gazz.

EDIT: I tested it out since it has literally been years since I looked at that particular stat and I see that you do have to click one extra time the first time to switch the character menu view to stats. But from then on it's a press of B to see and done.

 

[Damocles]

The hunger/thirst stats are constantly having an influence on the players abilities, and change dynamically.

Other entries dont. For example the armor rating can be in a submenu, as it only changes when the player alters his setup.

There is a reason UI Mods always add those numbers (hunger, thirst, temperature)

 

[hotpoon]

yeah hopefully there will be at least a ui option for it in the future....along with a fov slider

+1

At the moment I'm using Red Eagle's hud mod and setting the FOV via the console before every game. These things should be standard options in the vanilla game though.

 

[Weazelsun]

@madmole, when will vehicle tints/ color mods be added? I want everyone on the mp server I play on to see my garish pink motorcycle!

 

[n2n1]

There is a reason UI Mods always add those numbers (hunger, thirst, temperature)

That's it.

And no explanation of the reasons, will not help a person to cope with the desire to put the mod on HUD, if he inexplicably "want" because of the discomfort of the current system.

Why is this happening? I would like it to be understood before, and not when people will twist a finger at the temple after the release of the game. In the meantime, you can twist it at my temple if you want

PS: and by the way - the temperature is what a person feels directly to yourself in every moment, so why is it hidden in the backpack?

 

[n2n1]

@madmole, when will vehicle tints/ color mods be added? I want everyone on the mp server I play on to see my garish pink motorcycle!

Yep, for transport it would be only the desired opportunity, I don't want everyone saw my "pink club"

 

[DaVegaNL]

I'm kind of partial to the idea of players who think they must see the actual value of 96% in order to survive, having to do all the work of opening the character status screen to see it. I really think it is just "menu", btw. While saying "submenu" does make it seem more laborious to delve deep into the obscure informational screens of the game to find that hunger %--it's just one button to open the character status menu.
Now the journal entries? Those ARE the Submenus of Gazz.

EDIT: I tested it out since it has literally been years since I looked at that particular stat and I see that you do have to click one extra time the first time to switch the character menu view to stats. But from then on it's a press of B to see and done.

Well.. You're not telling the whole truth there, Roland. Yes, hunger and thirst can be found in the player stats menu if you press B. However, B can also open up the 'clothing' menu, or the 'other stats' menu.. So hunger and thirst is hidden in one of the menus found under the main 'Tab-menu'.

 

[-Holo-]

Which alpha was it that had the round icon with a belly that showed all necessary info? I have a faint memory of that thing but can't find from what alpha right now while at work.

 

[n2n1]

......I wouldn't mind appeasing those people with a small green line at the bottom of the stamina bar that shows fullness levels from 100% to 150% since I really do think THAT is truly the crux of the whole matter. But I would be sad indeed to lose the current system to just four separate bars.

It's a great idea, maybe it really would be a compromise!

Well, that would be a better solution than (even) 4 bars on the screen

You see, Roland, a lot of Alphas have passed and people have forgotten about sharp sticks (even me). But if after so much time questions are still raised - then it means that something is wrong.

So to solve this problems appeared a whole class of mods that the number of almost overtakes full-fledged overhauls.

If for vanilla to return these "4 bars" - hardly will appear fashion which will clean up their

PS: By the way! I have an idea - what could be removed from the screen for better immersion and what would not interfere!

These are stupid "up" and "down" arrows that show an upgrade or destruction is being performed!

Apply to them the arguments you just did for 4 bars.... aaaand done!

(not sarcasm)

 

[-Holo-]

Yes, the lack of fov settings is an incomprehensible behavior of all developers.Most likely, in our case - it is leveling the influence of settings to fps in the reports of players about performance.

Yeah. Not having a Fov slider in a first person game is a bleeping sin. Luckily we can still change it, but when(if) the days comes they remove the option, then the game is unplayable (for me)