Hek Harris
New member
And I'm fine with that : drinking whiners tears is my main source of protein
PC Alpha 18 Dev Diary!!
- Thread starter madmole
- Start date
- Status
MechanicalLens
New member
@madmole Here are my thoughts concerning zombie AI in A18, and why A18 will be the perfect alpha, AI wise:
What is more dangerous than a robot? A human. Unlike a robot that cannot think for itself, humans have a unique ability that no other creature or creation possesses: imagination. We, as a species, can think and plan ahead, solve clues, and think outside the box. We affect the environment as much as we are affected by it. A robot, on the other hand, cannot hope to achieve this. They have a set of pre-determined functions that become easy to abuse once you learn the algorithms. There is nothing to hide, thus we can examine, decipher, and put methods into practice that cheese them to the point where they are little to no threat to us. In Alpha 16, zombies were not robots, nor did they fit under the unique category that humans do. They were savage, simple-minded entities that had no concern for their own safety and would achieve their objective (braaains...) by any means necessary. This made them incredibly dangerous, for you were not able to manipulate them to the extent as we could in Alpha 17, but in the end, brains triumphed over brawn. (Or to be more accurate, superior defenses won over the offense.) This system made the zombies devastating to new and even experienced players, but over time, we mastered the game. That's what humans do, and that's what humans have always done. In Alpha 17, with the aid of a tutorial, even a noob could beat the game. (Not only that, but the zombies would chew through most normal bases like a hot knife through butter, which was a huge issue.)
In summary, you cannot outsmart a human unless you make them face off against another human (and once you get there, results may vary again); we outsmart and out-think our opponents to death, literally. But one sure-fire way to defeat a human is to add a sense of unpredictability. Alpha 18 does this wonderfully, adding a variety of "smart" zombies and dumb zombies. It certainly isn't perfect and may need further refinement, but this, THIS, is how you defeat the player while keeping things fresh, interesting, but still dangerous. While we will certainly come out on top at the end of the day (as we, as a species, have always done), but if you want to beat a human at their own game, then you come from multiple angles and not head-on. This is why I genuinely, strongly believe that when it comes to AI in Alpha 18, Alpha 18 will be the greatest alpha in 7D2D history, hands down.
What is more dangerous than a robot? A human. Unlike a robot that cannot think for itself, humans have a unique ability that no other creature or creation possesses: imagination. We, as a species, can think and plan ahead, solve clues, and think outside the box. We affect the environment as much as we are affected by it. A robot, on the other hand, cannot hope to achieve this. They have a set of pre-determined functions that become easy to abuse once you learn the algorithms. There is nothing to hide, thus we can examine, decipher, and put methods into practice that cheese them to the point where they are little to no threat to us. In Alpha 16, zombies were not robots, nor did they fit under the unique category that humans do. They were savage, simple-minded entities that had no concern for their own safety and would achieve their objective (braaains...) by any means necessary. This made them incredibly dangerous, for you were not able to manipulate them to the extent as we could in Alpha 17, but in the end, brains triumphed over brawn. (Or to be more accurate, superior defenses won over the offense.) This system made the zombies devastating to new and even experienced players, but over time, we mastered the game. That's what humans do, and that's what humans have always done. In Alpha 17, with the aid of a tutorial, even a noob could beat the game. (Not only that, but the zombies would chew through most normal bases like a hot knife through butter, which was a huge issue.)
In summary, you cannot outsmart a human unless you make them face off against another human (and once you get there, results may vary again); we outsmart and out-think our opponents to death, literally. But one sure-fire way to defeat a human is to add a sense of unpredictability. Alpha 18 does this wonderfully, adding a variety of "smart" zombies and dumb zombies. It certainly isn't perfect and may need further refinement, but this, THIS, is how you defeat the player while keeping things fresh, interesting, but still dangerous. While we will certainly come out on top at the end of the day (as we, as a species, have always done), but if you want to beat a human at their own game, then you come from multiple angles and not head-on. This is why I genuinely, strongly believe that when it comes to AI in Alpha 18, Alpha 18 will be the greatest alpha in 7D2D history, hands down.
Last edited by a moderator:
Genosis
New member
Ha thanks man, we’re looking forward to it too, and we appreciate the mention among the big folks.
We’re going to hit A18 hard with vids and streams next week, to catch as much of the wave as possible... and I just want to freakin play it too lol. Energy drinks purchased and a day off from work is planned
AwesomeRobot
New member
So do we have a time for when the update drops for the public
Adam the Waster
Well-known member
Monday
wildaxeman1
New member
agree, exept bottled water. if you boil murky piss (water) from toilet, it becomes botled water and that should not make you sick. bacon and eggs 3 days old makes you sick for sure.
There are a handful of reasons why the streamer event happens and there are a few reasons why it is done exclusively. You picked a single reason that may be weak if it were the only reason for exclusivity. But taking ALL reasons together might show a different picture.
Another reason for the exclusivity would be that TFP wants more viewers for the streams. If everyone is playing A18, people new to 7d2d would be the only viewers of the streams and the streams would not even show up on any lists of "most watched" and look deserted. Do you think streamers will do a stream all weekend if nobody is watching?
AFAIK this was already changed
Gareee
Tester
That's good news, andIf they wouldn't be streaming otherwise it would make sense.
The the thing is though they would be streaming without the exclusive weekend. It's rock solid enough where where everyone could have been playing, you could watch the streaming, and then taken the full next week to make your tweaks instead of trying to push hard for last minutes changes for Monday.
I didn't see anything I couldn't live with at all in all the time we watched, and the only niggle is not having skyscrapers in rwg, forcing a restart once they are put back in.
Gareee
Tester
That's what I figured, but someone asked Joel during Pokket's stream specifically about skyscrapers, and he said they weren't in for now.
He may have misspoken (Like us, he's excited and had also been watching streamers for hours.) Orbit could be for performance reasons they were pulled.
I've asked for clarification several times in several different areas, and no one has clarified the statement...hence my concern.
(The biggest concern is having to restart because the rwg has a significant change.)
Gareee
Tester
Maybe the streamer weekend wording is just wrong. Viewed in the above context, as a pre launch party, I'm on board 110% it IS good to see them enjoying seeing people play, and I don't think they would get that luxury with the full public release.
As I said in my comment, I can see both sides of the coin. Thanks for this post and perspective!
- - - Updated - - -
Yer looking at 100-200 hours there...lol!
JaxTeller718
New member
That is some awesome news faatal. I witnessed in a few streams some FPS hitching when looking towards cliffs or sky in the desert. Im comforted to know that guys like you are out there watching that stuff. In my eyes streamer weekend is a success no matter the outcome because it brings a more solid experience to everyone on release day.
And i bow to you good sir at the stair jumping fix! Its exhausting watching horde night after horde night of jumping zeds. I mean im not against using things to your advantage but man that one is cheese heaven.
AwesomeRobot
New member
I meant time not date but thanks anyway
Gareee
Tester
I just watched Grumbles day 14 stream, and saw that as well. The other thing of note is I thought bms were changed to a drip feed after the bm hoard had been completed? In Grumble's video, he hit like 2am and was done with only a bow. (Granted it was just day 14 and I think he only had 8 alive on, and IMHO Joel's night 48 with 12 or 16 max alive looked a LOT more threatening.)
The only other thing I saw was some noob players like Pokket having a bit of trouble finding the spear after throwing it in shadows.
Maybe the spear could not be affected by shadows if not held to make it easier for them? (Or maybe a book or perk could add that effect?)
There's an enchantment with levels in Minecraft on the trident called loyalty that makes it boomerang back with different shorter delay speeds at higher levels that might add more fun to spear toss use, though unrealistic.
I can imagine someone using the boomerang spear effect at a distance on a BM horde night, for example.
MechanicalLens
New member
POSSIBLE BUG:
Timestamp: 3:47:27 (could not link the Twitch video that goes to this timestamp)
The bug in question: Are you really supposed to get 450+ gas from a car with an iron pickaxe?
Edit: Also in the stream, Games4Kickz was getting radiators, engines, and batteries from cars when hitting them with a pickaxe. Is this also an oversight / bug?
Timestamp: 3:47:27 (could not link the Twitch video that goes to this timestamp)
The bug in question: Are you really supposed to get 450+ gas from a car with an iron pickaxe?
Edit: Also in the stream, Games4Kickz was getting radiators, engines, and batteries from cars when hitting them with a pickaxe. Is this also an oversight / bug?
Last edited by a moderator:
- Status