PC Alpha 18 Dev Diary!!

[Trankitas]

I do get amazed people say "It's taking you 5 years and it only took 1 for <insert AAA game here> to come out!" when that's only because they don't see the 10 years prior to any kind of announcement...

Plus, they release a new game every year, they want to sell, not to see the game triumph in the course of time.

 

[MechanicalLens]

Plus, they release a new game every year, they want to sell, not to see the game triumph in the course of time.

All in the almighty dollar. I try not to invest in game franchises that have FAR too many reiterations, sequels, prequels, etc.

 

[Cazmyr]

Madmole,

Thank you for the video! Nice to see it is coming along and we are getting closer everyday. I do have a question/ concern that has been mentioned and talked about a bit, but I am hoping for a bit more definitive answer.

You are on day 9 and I am concerned with the amount and quality of the loot you have found already:

The lvl 6 AK is the easy one, but there are many more

Lvl 4: Arm Armor, Blunderbuss?

Lvl 3: Leg armor, chest armor, mining helmet, iron pick axe, 2 javelins?

Other: BDU tops and bottoms, quite a few bullets/ shells, a grenade, hunting knife, 300 pills, lvl 2 wrench

It seems like that is a lot of powerful stuff for day 9. I am in the camp that loot found is WAY overpowered. It is not that it has to be all crap, but you have found a lvl 6 gun, the most efficient clothing in the game and all that other stuff by day 9.

Thank you again for the video and if this is the intent, then that is cool, I just wanted to flesh it out a bit.

Caz

 

[iBane]

There is the xp modifier too, that can go below 1x. Yes the game is amazing now that its geared to level slower. The fact is once you get 60 perks you will be pretty damn OP, so guys wanting 300 are just nuts, its way more fun to start over than to keep going. IMO level 100 will be a good end game point, which could be 150 hours, then roll a new character for a new experience and specialization.

I like all these A18 concepts as they are described, but will no doubt take getting used to, because so much of basic play in A17 required getting points into INT fast to do basic stuff (efficient resource mining, building horde-ready structures, tool making, exploring/vehicles, big POI clearing with weapons/ammo.)

 

[unlike them]

Well, you didn't remove gravel from underground mining.. that is one less thing to rant about.

But why are the frames in your video different from the Unholyjoe's video? Not sure how I can rant about it, but I'll try.

And release the A18 already, can't wait to rant about all those bugs!

 

[meganoth]

Because it's the same game throughout but with different weapons.
Level 1, kill easy zombies with a bow. Takes 5 shots. Loot is crap.

Level 50, kill medium zombies with a modded crossbow. Takes 5 shots. Loot is medium.

Level 100, kill harder zombies with a rifle. Takes 5 shots. Loot is better.

...there is no valid *reason* to "succeed" in this game.

Yes and no. You can still see your progress because normal zombies still spawn in higher game stages. Hopefully TFP knows this and doesn't forget it when they replace world spawns with random encounters.

... especially now that there are no death penalties other than it takes longer to level up, which is the goal anyway, so yes?

We are not far off from strategy guides on the internet telling people to die every morning to get rid of the XP. "Strategy approved by Gazz" :cocksure:

 

[Trankitas]

Well, you didn't remove gravel from underground mining.. that is one less thing to rant about.
But why are the frames in your video different from the Unholyjoe's video? Not sure how I can rant about it, but I'll try.

And release the A18 already, can't wait to rant about all those bugs!

Unholy Joe played on build 105 and Joel played on build 108. (maybe that's why)

 

[OzHawkeye]

That is why I keep warning players, DO NOT KNEE JERK AND TURN UP THE XP RATE. You miss out on 100 upgrades you could have had or might get GS too nasty and you still have brown/orange crap and not many mods and will make it too hard for yourself. Leveling is part of the success, but the bigger part is loot and gear now.

No arguments here, Joel, indeed I'm really looking forward to A18's newer systems, and to taking it nice and slow (though probably not till .2 or so will I commit to a longer term game).

I'm just pointing out that many players new to 7Days are likely to automatically see "faster XP" as an untarnished positive, not realising that leveling quickly might actually make things very much harder for them.

The usual game trope is either, harder areas, with higher mobs and better loot, or restarts on higher difficulty levels with harder mobs and better loot. 7Days goes against that grain by "leveling up" (for lack of a better term) the mobs to match, more or less, the players level through the gamestage mechanic, meaning that those that have done so arbitrarily fast, through either rigid focus on high XP activities, or simple XML edits, will actually find themselves under-equipped and unprepared for what they'll face.

Really the only issue I see with that, is that a newbie isn't going to understand that the game will do that, and will, more than likely, try to level up faster than not, not realising the effect it'll have.

 

[MechanicalLens]

Yes and no. You can still see your progress because normal zombies still spawn in higher game stages. Hopefully TFP knows this and doesn't forget it when they replace world spawns with random encounters.


We are not far off from strategy guides on the internet telling people to die every morning to get rid of the XP. "Strategy approved by Gazz" :cocksure:

Or you could try the Pacifist Challenge. (No killing of hostile entities, etc.)

 

[MikeRavo]

I've walked a hunk of granite before. It's a real drag....

I used to be a trampoline salesman. It had its ups and downs.

 

[MechanicalLens]

No arguments here, Joel, indeed I'm really looking forward to A18's newer systems, and to taking it nice and slow (though probably not till .2 or so will I commit to a longer term game).
I'm just pointing out that many players new to 7Days are likely to automatically see "faster XP" as an untarnished positive, not realising that leveling quickly might actually make things very much harder for them.

The usual game trope is either, harder areas, with higher mobs and better loot, or restarts on higher difficulty levels with harder mobs and better loot. 7Days goes against that grain by "leveling up" (for lack of a better term) the mobs to match, more or less, the players level through the gamestage mechanic, meaning that those that have done so arbitrarily fast, through either rigid focus on high XP activities, or simple XML edits, will actually find themselves under-equipped and unprepared for what they'll face.

Really the only issue I see with that, is that a newbie isn't going to understand that the game will do that, and will, more than likely, try to level up faster than not, not realising the effect it'll have.

While giving the noobie a helping hand every once in a while is necessary imo (journal entries, etc.), allowing the process of self-discovery is, imo, a valuable "feature" to have. If a new player is in a situation where they are outgunned by tougher zombies because they leveled too quickly, they could then deduce that maybe they should leave those settings on default.

Another example is the wasteland; even now, experienced [enough] players know to avoid that biome so long as they are lacking the weapons, armor, etc. to fend off the threats it presents. Oh, and at some point, they would have discovered that naturally spawning landmines in the wasteland are a thing. While having any newbie player get their head chewed off five seconds after entering the wasteland biome would be poor game design imo, letting them discover this for themselves (that maybe they should gear up for the wasteland before daring to venture into it) through personal experience is a whole part of the natural learning process that must take place in some way, shape, or form. Again, imo.

Or maybe additional "tooltips" are needed, idk. *Shrugs*

 

[unholyjoe]

Madmole,
Thank you for the video! Nice to see it is coming along and we are getting closer everyday. I do have a question/ concern that has been mentioned and talked about a bit, but I am hoping for a bit more definitive answer.

You are on day 9 and I am concerned with the amount and quality of the loot you have found already:

The lvl 6 AK is the easy one, but there are many more

Lvl 4: Arm Armor, Blunderbuss?

Lvl 3: Leg armor, chest armor, mining helmet, iron pick axe, 2 javelins?

Other: BDU tops and bottoms, quite a few bullets/ shells, a grenade, hunting knife, 300 pills, lvl 2 wrench

It seems like that is a lot of powerful stuff for day 9. I am in the camp that loot found is WAY overpowered. It is not that it has to be all crap, but you have found a lvl 6 gun, the most efficient clothing in the game and all that other stuff by day 9.

Thank you again for the video and if this is the intent, then that is cool, I just wanted to flesh it out a bit.

Caz

yep it does seem like a lot... the good thing about it is... you will use it up or sell it.. it makes it worth going out to loot everything you can.... and... you may/will get to a point where you wished you found more... Mr. RNG is still present in game and he is not giving up his position.

it makes going out of the safety of the base fun again. IMO

 

[MajorMunchy]

Well, you didn't remove gravel from underground mining.. that is one less thing to rant about.
But why are the frames in your video different from the Unholyjoe's video? Not sure how I can rant about it, but I'll try.

And release the A18 already, can't wait to rant about all those bugs!

may have the testers testing a slightly older build?

 

[OzHawkeye]

While giving the noobie a helping hand every once in a while is necessary imo (journal entries, etc.), allowing the process of self-discovery is, imo, a valuable "feature" to have. If a new player is in a situation where they are outgunned by tougher zombies because they leveled too quickly, they could then deduce that maybe they should leave those settings on default.
Or maybe additional "tooltips" are needed, idk. *Shrugs*

Under the game design principle of affordance, if I were to make any suggestion to the Pimps, it would be some sort of notice to new players that rapidly getting XP without getting loot/gear etc along the way, isn't such a good idea, in this game.

 

[madmole]

Clearing gravel with a pickaxe? This makes a geologist sad..

Its still not as efficient as a shovel, but doable. Imagine turning the pick sideways and raking out of the way.

 

[MajorMunchy]

Under the game design principle of affordance, if I were to make any suggestion to the Pimps, it would be some sort of notice to new players that rapidly getting XP without getting loot/gear etc along the way, isn't such a good idea, in this game.

I will agree. When i first started no where was it stated my GS was going to determine anything for me. maybe have the tutorial in the beginning say something about what we are all on topic for?

 

[Gazz]

Because character development aka investing skill points gives direction. It's the very foundation of any RPG, plus: Any skill point based system is basically a level-gate that locks away features from the player. I cannot understand why not to chase XP. Playing for x hours on a low game stage isn't fun as it isn't to kill zombie no. 1595 with wooden arrows or a wooden club.

So you consider intentional dying as a valid strategy? Gamestage may be a nice trick for you as developer to adapt the difficulty to the abilities of the PC, but it breaks down because half of the progress in this game is through items and building and gamestage doesn't measure this. Using this knowledge is as exploity as fighting the endboss in obvlivion as a lvl 1 character.

Let's not forget that it is also an open world game and levels are not the only progression in the game.

By keeping your level low you ARE missing out on some higher tier items/mods/books or vehicles.

Your call.

Any comparison to an end boss falls flat in a game that has no end or goal.

We are not far off from strategy guides on the internet telling people to die every morning to get rid of the XP. "Strategy approved by Gazz" :cocksure:

I'm a minmaxer. That is not everyone's idea to have fun. And I also like slower games. Much slower than the progression was slowed down to.

I don't think this is a "right or wrong" issue.

 

[MechanicalLens]

Under the game design principle of affordance, if I were to make any suggestion to the Pimps, it would be some sort of notice to new players that rapidly getting XP without getting loot/gear etc along the way, isn't such a good idea, in this game.

Under this point of view, then giving players a notice that maybe entering a T5 building or a Bear Den POI on day 1 isn't the wisest move would also be necessary. Again, some things must be discovered for yourself, imo.

 

[unholyjoe]

may have the testers testing a slightly older build?

thanks major and trank for pointing that out

what can i say.... things change on daily basis and our video settings can be different, not to mention the video cards... so not everyone will see the exact same thing... IMO its not worth ranting about...

 

[Kattla]

Frankly If A18 release in next 2 weeks, I don't want A19 by christmas, for me it is too early. .

Regarding A19 , he didn't say which year.