PC Alpha 18 Dev Diary!!

Alpha 18 Dev Diary!!

  • A18 Stable is Out!

    Votes: 2 66.7%
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    Votes: 1 33.3%

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No prob, is a very interesting subject, both within games and in real world environments.
Agreed. The current hardware available on a consumer based level I can definitely see that as being the only thing stopping what I invision. Hopefully Moore's Law remains in affect for the next 20 years then maybe our hardware limitations will no longer exist.

This has been a intellectually stimulating conversation and I hope to hear from you again regarding any future comments I make here.

Take care.

 
Thank you for the reply. I did not get a response from anyone except you so much appreciated. I know advanced machine learning will be the norm within' the gaming industry in the coming years, IMO this will be a game changer once it does.Imagine if this was applied to 7D2D. Zombies learning a players strategy thus coming up with a better way of attacking a players base.

I can see in my mind how advanced machine learning & simulated neural networks could be used in video games.

It'll be interesting to see the first game that can actually pull this off and apply it in a useful manner for gaming. The first company that can pull it off, atleast what i invision, will make world wide news thus setting the standard for all future video games. Mark my words this will happen within the next few years. I have a simple app on my phone that uses machine learning and a very simple neural network-ish that can decode baseball coach signs they give to there players. This technology is by no means new but it has been getting refined and fine tuned in the past few years. I just cannot wait to see it implemented in video games, atleast what I invision. Cheers friend!
I believe they have tried machine learning for the game Dota 2. Sorry, I don’t have a link but I’m pretty sure it’s already happening. Pretty cool, and kinda scary (Terminator 2 scary), at the same time.

Cheers,

Loc

 
I believe they have tried machine learning for the game Dota 2. Sorry, I don’t have a link but I’m pretty sure it’s already happening. Pretty cool, and kinda scary (Terminator 2 scary), at the same time.
Cheers,

Loc
Ah, that, yeah that was an AI/MI hybrid(most are) that played the game, put together by OpenAI I believe, similar in the way they've played chess, GO, etc. That was a test of such AI in far more detail oriented games with much higher levels of variants to take into account. Yes it did well, and yes it freaked a lot of people out, especially those who understood what that meant fundamentally. So they're already moving from old-school board game challenges into modern MMO type environments, to up the challenge. Though, again, that took a very large dedicated system of multiple machines to accomplish, not something you're likely to see in-game or running within current PC systems. Only way would be to do it server-side by having the AI host environment log into it. The "cloud" hides most of this away form our perception, even in actual robots(I call those puppets). But make no mistake it already requires a ton of hardware and consumes a ton of power to do anything like that.

Don't worry about the Terminator, yet. See my avatar pic? That was meant to be a first attempt. The DOD arm of research, DARPA, asked me to help them build a Terminator back in 2010(it was a public project, hence my even mentioning it). I changed their mind and built that instead, you're welcome.

 
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It would be cool if you were able to build a mega poi mansion like the one in resident evil1. Victorian mansion with a garden bush maze, fancy chandelier and a big carpeted wooden stairway.

 
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Ah, that, yeah that was an AI/MI hybrid(most are) that played the game, put together by OpenAI I believe, similar in the way they've played chess, GO, etc. That was a test of such AI in far more detail oriented games with much higher levels of variants to take into account. Yes it did well, and yes it freaked a lot of people out, especially those who understood what that meant fundamentally. So they're already moving from old-school board game challenges into modern MMO type environments, to up the challenge. Though, again, that took a very large dedicated system of multiple machines to accomplish, not something you're likely to see in-game or running within current PC systems. Only way would be to do it server-side by having the AI host environment log into it. The "cloud" hides most of this away form our perception, even in actual robots(I call those puppets). But make no mistake it already requires a ton of hardware and consumes a ton of power to do anything like that.
Don't worry about the Terminator, yet. See my avatar pic? That was meant to be a first attempt. The DOD arm of research, DARPA, asked me to help them build a Terminator back in 2010(it was a public project, hence my even mentioning it). I changed their mind and built that instead, you're welcome.
were you part of the atlas team or on one of the teams to make the AI for it?

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P.S. DARPA has the terminator now lol......I guess they biult it behind your back maybe.. lol

 
were you part of the atlas team or on one of the teams to make the AI for it?
No, that was Boston Dynamics, which was bought by Amazon. I am very familiar, but did not work on that, though I can tell you right now a significant part of it's brain is likely off-board/remote, not sure, but very common and likely. I'm an independent contractor and turn most projects away these days, you can imagine why. 7DTD has been filling that void nicely, though I am gearing up for new projects now, just my own robots this time, no more for others. Anyway, don't want to veer any further off-topic, otherwise I could fill this entire forum with this subject alone. But as you can imagine I pay close attention when Faatal talks about the AI changes and methodologies used in the Z, and am curious how the Bandits will behave once those show up. So it's got enough relevance, but we should steer it back to in-game AI that is possible now, especially as they ramp up to tackle upcoming bandit behaviors.

 
No, that was Boston Dynamics, which was bought by Amazon. I am very familiar, but did not work on that, though I can tell you right now a significant part of it's brain is likely off-board/remote, not sure, but very common and likely. I'm an independent contractor and turn most projects away these days, you can imagine why. 7DTD has been filling that void nicely, though I am gearing up for new projects now, just my own robots this time, no more for others. Anyway, don't want to veer any further off-topic, otherwise I could fill this entire forum with this subject alone. But as you can imagine I pay close attention when Faatal talks about the AI changes and methodologies used in the Z, and am curious how the Bandits will behave once those show up. So it's got enough relevance, but we should steer it back to in-game AI that is possible now, especially as they ramp up to tackle upcoming bandit behaviors.
ahh thats right. sorry its been a couple of years since I looked in to these terminators the U.S. Gov has been building... I'll admit i have not been creepin' the forums that much in the past 6 months, now just started to so I've missed a lot of what Faatal has said publicly regarding a18

 
ahh thats right. sorry its been a couple of years since I looked in to these terminators the U.S. Gov has been building... I'll admit i have not been creepin' the forums that much in the past 6 months, now just started to so I've missed a lot of what Faatal has said publicly regarding a18
Overall I've noticed most changes/updates have revolved around pathing, was funny in my first A17 game before the updates those motherfathers were bee-lining up to me like ninjas on the 3rd floor of a house in the middle of the night. Whatever Faatal did took them from lumbering idiots who yell at walls to super-precise hunters who could not only path to you crazy fast but could also judge block strength and exploit weaknesses even the player didn't notice. It felt like they went from super dumb to super smart overnight, aside from the screaming and cursing on my first night in A17, I very much enjoyed experiencing the contrast in behavior. He's been tweaking them since, the updates alone were a big help by the time we reached 17.4, though we've all had to alter our tactics, especially for Blood Moon bases. BMs def have a different feel to them now, as does building and upgrading methods, so much more important now. I do miss the super dumb Z's, just because they're zombies and that makes sense, however I also appreciate the extra challenge of Faatals new AI. A nice mix of both, which has gotten balance attention, would be best, imho.

 
Adding one is trivial, keeping the memory and game running good with more models is not.
Putting back one of the old zombies from the snow biome back in the game would be so cool! Right now, all we see is that one zombie over and over. The other 2 zombies were cool. Maybe have an HD version of the female snow zombie? Maybe???

I mean, if somebody's looking for something to do in the arts department... Yeah right!

 
Roland,

Could you please add another smiley on top, just to make us smile… Even if they don't mean s... Something? Yeah, that's right, I meant to say something. :smile-new:

 
Putting back one of the old zombies from the snow biome back in the game would be so cool! Right now, all we see is that one zombie over and over. The other 2 zombies were cool. Maybe have an HD version of the female snow zombie? Maybe???I mean, if somebody's looking for something to do in the arts department... Yeah right!
Yeah, the land of never-ending lumberjack twins does get old. Occasionally other "regular" model types show up, but mainly from within POIs, in the wild it is one model, one texture, over and over. At least one more variant, and/or more wild occurrences of the basic models used elsewhere(there may be some now, but it seemed very few to me, if any), would be helpful.

 
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before the updates those motherfathers were bee-lining up to me like ninjas on the 3rd floor of a house in the middle of the night. Whatever Faatal did...
Roger that,

I kept up to date with info up until A17.4. I played a little of A17.3 and thats when i decided to put down the game until A18. That was the first time i ever made that decision in all the years I've been playing. Yeah that b-line crap was crazy. I do remember when Faatal talked about changing the coding for A.I. so that would no longer happen. Anything stated A17.4 until now i've missed out. I'm catching up on all my info though its just taking a minute to go through all the posts, twitters accounts, and youtube vids by TFP. A18 is looking nice :) This up coming version looks worth dropping another few thousand hours in again lol

EDIT: I believe Faatal made the change to b-lining zombies in A17.2 but i could be wrong. I have a horrible memory.

 
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Roger that,I kept up to date with info up until A17.4. I played a little of A17.3 and thats when i decided to put down the game until A18. That was the first time i ever made that decision in all the years I've been playing. Yeah that b-line crap was crazy. I do remember when Faatal talked about changing the coding for A.I. so that would no longer happen. Anything stated A17.4 until now i've missed out. I'm catching up on all my info though its just taking a minute to go through all the posts, twitters accounts, and youtube vids by TFP. A18 is looking nice :) This up coming version looks worth dropping another few thousand hours in again lol
Well it feels like most of them still bee-line in most situations, though I do remember some Faatal talk about introducing a percentage of "dumber" zombies into the mix. I lost track of how far that got with implementation though, and am very curious to see what things are like in A18.

They are only hard to deal with at first, for those who got used to A16 AI, which was a different challenge, especially on Blood Moons. But then, once you realize how "smart" they are, how well they path, they actually become much easier to deal with. You just exploit that, you can steer them, know where they will go, and lead them on all kinds of different paths, the most effective being a loop where they climb, fall, repeat. On BM they tend to carve a straight path to you through the spikes, but I have noticed more variation on recent BMs, like a few dif groups may try it from different directions, though that was during a BM with many other players, so it could have just been the dif directions each of our hordes came from, if that's a thing. Not sure, but overall they got some tweaking, and I imagine there'll be more to come.

On like my 3rd A17 game I had fun with the pathing, one of my fav ever base designs. I converted a house on the lake in Nav where I pathed them into my house, through my living room, upstairs onto the porch, then they fell, repeat. Most didn't even make it in the door, I did have a bit of a gauntled out front, jsut some barbed wire and a piece of e-fence, and if they did walk in the door a motion sensor turned on the blade trap. Very few ever made it up to the 2nd floor porch. I did this every Blood Moon, not just in between or with wandering hordes/screamers. I had to go out and pick off the vultures, and did still gun down and molotov, but I could also just chill inside, do other things, and pop off whatever random Z actually made it that far.

 
@MadMole @Roland or anyone.

I have a doubt about perks, MadMole say that level gates has been removed, but i don't know if he say what happen to the highest levels of attributes.

For example, int lvl 10 still cost 5 points/levels/ranks to unlock? (sorry i don't remember the exact number).

Thanks

 
This has already been answered many times. The answer is no. Their level designers don't want people to poke 1m holes through their POIs, and it would make escaping zombies too easy.
You inattentively read the text of my post?

Jumping 2+ blocks in height also goes against the design, but they are. How is one block passage worse than jumping?

Once upon a time, MM said that lockpicks in the game are unnecessary, and now we will see them in 18 Alpha.

Everything is changing =)

 
It would be cool if you were able to build a mega poi mansion like the one in resident evil1. Victorian mansion with a garden bush maze, fancy chandelier and a big carpeted wooden stairway.


Once the game is gold I plan on making a server and making the entire Spencer estate from the REmake. I did 95% of it on minecraft so I already have the dimensions I need. I'll release the poi in the steam workshop once it's done. Gonna need lots of manpower to get it done quick though lol

 
It would be cool if you were able to build a mega poi mansion like the one in resident evil1. Victorian mansion with a garden bush maze, fancy chandelier and a big carpeted wooden stairway.
You can build just about anything your heart desires. Building a replica of RE1 mansion is possible. Have you ever played this game?

I even built the "White House" on a server once. Not sure why you have this idea its not possible....

EDIT: Making a fancy chandelier I can see as being a real challenge though.

 
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@MadMole @Roland or anyone.I have a doubt about perks, MadMole say that level gates has been removed, but i don't know if he say what happen to the highest levels of attributes.

For example, int lvl 10 still cost 5 points/levels/ranks to unlock? (sorry i don't remember the exact number).

Thanks
Perks all cost 1 skillpoint. You must purchase them in order. Attributes have a higher cost as you progress. I believe levels 1-3 each cost 1 skillpoint to unlock and then it gets more expensive from there.

Perks are still gated by attribute level but not by player level. So for example you may need to have the 5th rank of an attribute unlocked before you can unlock the 3rd tier of a perk.

It’s basically the same skillpoint economy system as A17 minus the player level gates.

 
Roger that,I kept up to date with info up until A17.4. I played a little of A17.3 and thats when i decided to put down the game until A18. That was the first time i ever made that decision in all the years I've been playing. Yeah that b-line crap was crazy. I do remember when Faatal talked about changing the coding for A.I. so that would no longer happen. Anything stated A17.4 until now i've missed out. I'm catching up on all my info though its just taking a minute to go through all the posts, twitters accounts, and youtube vids by TFP. A18 is looking nice :) This up coming version looks worth dropping another few thousand hours in again lol

EDIT: I believe Faatal made the change to b-lining zombies in A17.2 but i could be wrong. I have a horrible memory.
It definitely changed a bit, I too forget which update exactly.

The few new AI things I can recall that are going to be in A18, iirc, are the aggro speed boosts, new player bread-crumb trail thing(acts like a scent trail for Z), and them ragdolling on more occasions, like walking off of rooftops and out of of windows(in A17 they just drop on their feet and keep going). MadMole has mentioned how fun that is to see a couple of times now, and we've seen some of it in the streams. All those seem like pretty substantial tweaks/growth in the behavior complexity in themselves. Oh and them fixing the explosion thing, before one z in a group would just drop, now the whole lot of them get ragdoll blasted. Fun awaits. All in all I am really looking forward to seeing the advancements of Z and more in A18.

 
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Nice. dang i really missed a lot. The more and more I hear about the changes for A18 the more excited I get.

I've even convinced a few big Youtube content creators to try out 7D2D A18 and see if they like. One i even bought a copy of the game for but again, told him wait till the update before judging. This is how much I believe A18 will bring the game back to the glory days aka A16

EDIT: crossing fingers Neebs decides on making another 7D2D series when A18 drops :)

 
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