PC Alpha 18 Dev Diary!!

[madmole]

My maths is perfectly fine, thank you.
If each time I die I lose 25% of the xp needed to gain in level, then to gain a level I have to be able to re-gain at least that 25% xp before dying again.

If I can't manage that, then I'll never increase in level again. The maths is simple and straightforward.

With other forms of death penalty I can at least slowly crawl up to getting to higher level and therefore being able to buy perks that will help keep me alive, but with a cumulative direct xp loss I can't unless I can gain xp faster than I lose it.

Even if the penalty was "you only gain a tenth of the normal xp for the next hour" at least you'd still be gaining it slowly and it might take you ten times as long to go up levels but you wouldn't be able to get stuck in a vicious circle of losing it quicker than you re-gain it.

If you are dying that much you need to turn down the difficulty. Its not hard to stay alive, 95% of deaths only occurs when you don't properly prepare.

 

[madmole]

...until you reach the stage where you die at least once per day and never make progress again.
Death penalties should slow progress, but they should never completely block it or reverse it (not in this type of game, anyway).

It doesn't halt anything unless you are OCD about gaining new perks like clockwork. It blocks zombies from getting any harder, and in facts makes them easier for a while. The whole world is waiting for you to get stronger before it gets stronger. If it takes 1 hour to level, you only lose 15 minutes of progress. You would need to die 4x a day every day to be stuck, and as I said in my earlier post you are not preparing properly or you need to turn down the difficulty.

 

[madmole]

I always avoid large-scale multiplayer for another reason. I don't like being effectively "punished" for not being on 24/7, and the world advances while I'm not there, asleep or otherwise. I personally have never been a fan of logging off on day 10 and, 24 hours later, logging back in to discover that people have been playing while I was off, and it is now day 52.

Day is irrelevant, did you quit playing 2 years ago?

 

[faatal]

@faatal needs a unique avatar too! For people like me, who casually browse through this thread in search of dev responses.

I added a picture months ago, but I don't think it liked it, since I've never seen it on my posts and I gather you can't see it either.

 

[Guppycur]

I added a picture months ago, but I don't think it liked it, since I've never seen it on my posts and I gather you can't see it either.

You added it to the profile picture but not the avatar. Click on your profile, and we see your baby blue's.

 

[faatal]

@ Faatal:
Not to add another bug to slow down the hype train and release, but Jawoodle on youtube found another easy ai exploit that needs fixing. Zombies won't walk on arrow slits if they are on the ground! He placed a floor of them, and literally had a working forcefield and could just pick them all off one by one with a sledge, even on a day 40 horde night.

Obviously spitters would still create a hazard, but this is way too easy to allow in a18.

That boy can sniff out an exploit a mile away. He needs to be on the early release streamer list.

I added to my todo list. Thanks.

 

[faatal]

in our current build, I just tried with arrow slit blocks in ALL rotations on ground and in ground to make flush... my zombies took no issues to hop on, walk across or destroy these blocks.

Nice, so maybe was fixed by other code changes.

 

[madmole]

That sounds awesome!
I think my issue was only doing t5 towers. I figured these were end game and I should only do them. I heard somewhere you were going to allow us to do all tiered quests once we unlock the higher ones. Like even if I'm I'm on t5 quests I can still pick t1 quests. Is that true?

- - - Updated - - -

Wow lol. Is this 1999? This feels alot like Everquest 1

I did the hospital last night and only used about 100 rounds I think, but I used spiked knuckles on most of the zeds, it only got nasty on the roof spaces where vultures came and in 2 other spots and then the end room.

 

[SnowDog1942]

Nice, so maybe was fixed by other code changes.

How dare u tell me how to play MY game. If I want zombies to get stuck on arrow slits then let me do it. If you dont wanna do it then dont!

Lmao... did i use this stupid argument correctly?

 

[MechanicalLens]

I agree. That's one thing that's missing from A17: the exploration fun factor. When driving on your minibike in previous alphas, nothing compared to finding a brand new town. In A17, I and no one else I know feel the same emotions. It's just "okay".

 

[unholyjoe]

How dare u tell me how to play MY game. If I want zombies to get stuck on arrow slits then let me do it. If you dont wanna do it then dont!
Lmao... did i use this stupid argument correctly?

no doggy bone... back to your corner.

 

[MajorMunchy]

don't know if this every got answered but is the bug with the vehicles being silent at top speed fixed?

They also dont rotate the wheels either.

This is all from a perspective of the passenger or a civ walking by/someone driving by.

Don't think a 4x4 should be quieter than sledge hammer hitting dirt

 

[Guppycur]

don't know if this every got answered but is the bug with the vehicles being silent at top speed fixed?

It didn't get answered, but if you see any bug fix that says something about "latency improved" or "client/server sync" then that'll probably be it, and other issues.

 

[madmole]

Is the 25% penalty the only punishment for dying now? Other than bag runs I mean?

I believe so.

 

[faatal]

You added it to the profile picture but not the avatar. Click on your profile, and we see your baby blue's.

Thanks, I found the avatar section.

 

[madmole]

@madmole
Seeing how this deathpenalty discussion continues, even though I am satisfied... I have a question:

I gave that opinion back in A17 experimental, and a few times since then:

(no attack, honest question) Why do you guys want to punish the player?

Instead of rewarding survival and taking that reward away

(so lower base xp gain to 50% and give *1.5 after one day; *2 after 3 days (so "normal") and *2.5-3 after 7 days survived)

meaning you aren't punished but rewarded for staying alive.

It wouldn't cut out all the commentors saying that on multiplayer ppl fall behind, but you can not fall in a "death loop" and be stuck at that level.

Also it feels just so much better beeing rewarded for staying alive this long.

Also you can tweek the numbers... make base leveling give 10% of what it is now but go in x5 day 1 x10 day 3 and x20 day 7 or something.

I feel like this way you do not punish the player who already had problems surviving.

Factually it is the same... (more or less) but it FEELS different. It doesnt feel like someone clubbing me with a hammer for dying, but someone just took away my bone and I can earn it back if I survive long enough.

It should be obvious, we don't want players eating glass to get out of infection, dysentery, broken legs, etc. You are getting rewarded now by staying alive, you aren't losing XP. Feels great already. Your method is just reward and more reward. People would have their glass and eat it too with that design.

Our system takes away nothing. You die at level 42 you are always going to be level 42. It ensures people will avoid death no matter what, which they should, unless they think its a fair trade to get rid of infection to lose some XP. SOme will still eat glass, and we're fine with that now. Before no matter how you sliced it, people would suicide to get out of things because it was safe and convenient and had not much drawback. Now I think people will think twice and thank us for the game play it took to heal their leg or get rid of infection. Those "needs" produce great stories. Being stuck at a certain level might feel good to overcome.

If I had it my way I'd take away a full level, -5 to all attributes, gaining back 1 per day, respawn starving with 1 health and food and water how they were when you died. But thats my own hardcore version I'd like and realize that would be a nice mod and horrible for a retail release.

 

[faatal]

don't know if this every got answered but is the bug with the vehicles being silent at top speed fixed?
They also dont rotate the wheels either.

This is all from a perspective of the passenger or a civ walking by/someone driving by.

Don't think a 4x4 should be quieter than sledge hammer hitting dirt

Not fixed yet. Low priority.

 

[madmole]

If I remember correctly they introduce death penalty to stop players from suicide to heal their broken legs and stuff like that. And Yes, it seems negative, but I really like it. It make us more cautious. Though I hate the part where I have to pick my bag pack, from where I die which is still overloaded with same zombie that kill me.. maybe a bear or radiated and now I am weaker and have no defence to take it back.

You could drop nothing on death. Its easy enough to throw a rock and distract zeds away from your gear with some stealth. Take some spikes if you must. Usually you can easily kite them away, sprint over there, grab gear and go.

 

[madmole]

I am going to try lots of different things. But not having the ammo isent the issue.
If I have 10k ammo and i do a t5 tower and end it with -500 ammo why am I doing the tower? Ammo is my main need in game. If a poi nets me a loss of ammo I'm gonna skip it.

Its going to cost you ammo. Your reward is XP, possible better armor, guns, tools and gear you might find. Supplies, trader rewards, dukes... its all worth it. If you go in and expect to make gains on ammo then you need your head examined. The idea is the loot is worth it. That remains to be seen and is up to the RNG.

 

[Guppycur]

Its going to cost you ammo. Your reward is XP, possible better armor, guns, tools and gear you might find. Supplies, trader rewards, dukes... its all worth it. If you go in and expect to make gains on ammo then you need your head examined. The idea is the loot is worth it. That remains to be seen and is up to the RNG.

Right now there is a hard loot list limit, which y'all are pretty close to maxing out (255 I think), so adding in special custom loot would get you even closer to that hard cap, so:

1) Do y'all have any plans to increase the hard cap like you did for blocks and items

2) Do y'all have plans to have specialty items inside of specific poi's or are you strictly handling those through trader quest rewards?

I can tell you that as a modder, PLEASE raise the cap. As a player, PLEASE include more poi-specific loot.

Thanks!