SnowDog1942
Navezgane's Perv
it breaks my IMMERSION!!!!
PC Alpha 18 Dev Diary!!
- Thread starter madmole
- Start date
- Status
madmole
Fun Pimps Staff
+Added: Electrical schematics to loot and traders (Joel)
+Added: Craftable power doors and bridges. Unlocked via schematic or tier 4 of Advanced Engineering (Joel)(still need to clean up attachment points)
*Changed: Upgraded trader to use new loot template for books (Joel)
This was no easy task lol. Sounded like a couple hours of work took from 9 to 630 lol.
+Added: Craftable power doors and bridges. Unlocked via schematic or tier 4 of Advanced Engineering (Joel)(still need to clean up attachment points)
*Changed: Upgraded trader to use new loot template for books (Joel)
This was no easy task lol. Sounded like a couple hours of work took from 9 to 630 lol.
FileMachete
New member
First, welcome to the forums Vapid
I only play SP in 7dtd. In the past there have been a few things that were, umm, 'discussed'(?) where mechanics impacted SP/MP/PvP games quite differently (apparently). So when I wrote,
"Another large factor is that the same exact 'builds' are used across SP, MP and PvP. So what might be a nice team bonus for MP games might be OPd in PvP."
What I meant was the devs also have to consider how Balance tweak A will impact all three game types.
So something that might be cool & fun for SP might be really 'overpowered' (OPd) in MP or PvP.
As MM has written "Balance" is/can-be subjective. To me, in general, 'good' balance would mean that every Build Template would be roughly equally viable. So a 'Builder' isn't just one-shotted by the weakest zed, but also a 'Tank' isn't unable to build a base. The Overpowered bit comes in like MM just mentioned regarding the Fireaxe. If that's, by far, the best Melee weapon then it invalidates the other `melee` builds/weapons.
So, yes, fully agree with you when you said, "Usually you want balance across playstyles."
On the last bit, where I threw out a couple ideas on how, possibly, to 'buff up' Stealth build/s for horde nights, it was with the assumption that the devs _may_ decide that there's a need to. Not that I personally think there is (again SP only here).
No idea how long you've been playing 7dtd, and I'm only bringing it up in case you haven't played a16. Horde nights changed radically between a16 & a17. In a16 you could readily build bases where you could melee a lot if not the majority of a horde, and those were pretty easy designs. In a17 it's quite a bit trickier to build anything resembling a 'pure melee base'. While it's certainly possible to do so for the first couple/few horde nights, I haven't seen a single base design that relied on melee damage output for later gamestages. The 'closest' I know of is the 'fight em on the ground' with lots of potion assistance.
Point of all that is that in a17 I could see how some could rationally argue that a Stealth build is gimped on horde nights. One of the larger parts of that being, imo, that a Stealth builds Hidden Strike .5-2x(?) damage multiplier can _never_ land during BMs. And the same could be argued about a later stage Melee build where their melee Skullcrusher isn't likely to see any action. So the convoluted last idea I threw out. If Build A can't put out the Damage per Time, and the design intent isn't that A compensate via other means (traps?)(which may well be the case), then a mechanic that slows down some of the zeds in a wave may work to balance across builds.
To be fair though, the majority of the base/BM testing I did was in a17exp~a17.1. Even a17.4 is quite a bit different from those earlier builds. Now I use a few base designs where I have very little to do on horde nights. Mainly because I find bows boring, and I'm not willing to use up all the firearm rounds. So just e-fencing, dart & blade traps and a short path. Though I am hoping that a18 will bring back some of the, 'in your face!' melee base defense from a16, heh
FileMachete
New member
Thank you for doing it even so MM! Really looking forward to the powered doors/bridges
Mechanimal
RangerRedd
Nice, thanks for the effort, know how seemingly little things can easily inflate into time sinks like that. Curious to see what kinds of interesting builds develop by making use of those powered door types. Just super glad the electrical system got some love, and additions, for A18.
mr.devolver
New member
Where do I get this?
THARN
New member
Excellent news!
I remember the first and only time I had a generators and I built about 7 or 8 blade traps.(A-17). I lived on top of a garage..and built bridges across the road to the other buildings.. Was all set for horde night -- blade traps running -couldn't wait to hear those z's getting chopped up-- so you know what they did>? went right for my electrical box/generator that I put up high on the wall//// my in experience cost me..lol.. had to run for it and whilst on a bridge they knocked it to shreds and I fell off... I ran into a field and barely survived til morning.. Know how?
Stealth'..... great for solo play. (there was a few fights but I fought em off enough to get to run away and hide a bit- I should state though, that I had the z's set for running not sprinting-otherwise I would have been eaten.
Vapid Actions
New member
Thanks for taking the time to reply @FileMachete
I apologize for misunderstanding. I currently have 220 hours in 7dtd, certainly nowhere near some peoples hours (I know how many hours can go into a particular game, oh god I know. 7k into one in particular....). Most of which has been spent in a17. I picked up the game waaaaay back, but never got into the early builds due to lack of progression clarity. Just kind of plopped down into the world without any idea of how to do anything, how to craft, what to craft (this was back when it used the blind crafting grid without recipe assistance, unsure which patch). So I just spend a bit of time walking around, punching things, figured out how to make an axe, failed to use sleeping bags, then got distracted by other games until a video recently popped up in my youtube feed about the new a17 and it got me very interested in it again.
I've been having a lot of fun with a17, but the massive amount of progress the game has made since when I first tried it to now cannot be understated. With that being so vivid in my mind, I find it hard to think the developers are failing to push things in the right direction. Concerning A17 (where the vast majority of my experience lies) I find a lot of the common issues are being addressed in A18, and I really find it hard to comment on a skill tree we have yet to really see, let alone experience.
From what I understand, a18 is introducing a pretty much complete overhaul of the perk system, with the books added in really shaking up how progression works. At this point I want to take the approach of "wait and see". and if there is balance problems in what we've been provided, talk about it then. So far there's been no evidence of concern i've seen in new content, people are just talking about worries from past content. I'm not talking about concerns regarding the crafting system and the awful awful grid, let's have the same commitment to moving forward concerning the perk tree.
Though my biggest concern coming from a17 that I haven't heard much on, is item mods. weapon mods are critical in late game. The difference between an unmodded pistol, and a fully modded pistol is immense. Not just for damage, but also utility. The biggest issue i've had is that mods are fairly rare, and extremely RNG. I understand mods will no longer effect damage, but that's not why missing them is an issue to me.
One of my latest stealth builds I've gotten to level 114 (day 40), but have yet to find a silencer, or a silencer schematic. about a bajillion impact bracers, but no silencers. I've been checking 4 of the traders every time they reset, all shotgun messiahs including the factory every reset, and focusing on buildings with weapon safes, and nada. But without that silencer, I can't finalize my playstyle. Over 7k 9mm ammo in a storage chest with maxed agility, perception, all sneak perks and pistol perks, a level 6 pistol with all the rest of my mods, but can't find a silencer to actually use the build to clear PoI's. A bow still works with the build, but not what I wanted the build to really do.
Basically I'm hoping some of the perks unlock mod schematics so you aren't forced into RNG waiting for the right attachments for your build. Waiting for that extended barrel and bipod for your sniper, that polymer string and arrow rest for your archer, etc. These attachments don't just empower a build, they can be necessary, and I think it would be nice for the build to unlock mods that correspond to the perk.
EG if the perk that unlocks more silent movement unlocks muffled connectors > impact bracing > advanced muffled connectors > silencer. The rifleman perk unlocks semi-auto trigger > bi-pod > extended barrel > muzzle brake, so on and so forth. if books are going to be available again to teach schematics, I don't see the problem with them being added to other perks as well to remove from RNG from the exact recipies you really need for your build.
I apologize for misunderstanding. I currently have 220 hours in 7dtd, certainly nowhere near some peoples hours (I know how many hours can go into a particular game, oh god I know. 7k into one in particular....). Most of which has been spent in a17. I picked up the game waaaaay back, but never got into the early builds due to lack of progression clarity. Just kind of plopped down into the world without any idea of how to do anything, how to craft, what to craft (this was back when it used the blind crafting grid without recipe assistance, unsure which patch). So I just spend a bit of time walking around, punching things, figured out how to make an axe, failed to use sleeping bags, then got distracted by other games until a video recently popped up in my youtube feed about the new a17 and it got me very interested in it again.
I've been having a lot of fun with a17, but the massive amount of progress the game has made since when I first tried it to now cannot be understated. With that being so vivid in my mind, I find it hard to think the developers are failing to push things in the right direction. Concerning A17 (where the vast majority of my experience lies) I find a lot of the common issues are being addressed in A18, and I really find it hard to comment on a skill tree we have yet to really see, let alone experience.
From what I understand, a18 is introducing a pretty much complete overhaul of the perk system, with the books added in really shaking up how progression works. At this point I want to take the approach of "wait and see". and if there is balance problems in what we've been provided, talk about it then. So far there's been no evidence of concern i've seen in new content, people are just talking about worries from past content. I'm not talking about concerns regarding the crafting system and the awful awful grid, let's have the same commitment to moving forward concerning the perk tree.
Though my biggest concern coming from a17 that I haven't heard much on, is item mods. weapon mods are critical in late game. The difference between an unmodded pistol, and a fully modded pistol is immense. Not just for damage, but also utility. The biggest issue i've had is that mods are fairly rare, and extremely RNG. I understand mods will no longer effect damage, but that's not why missing them is an issue to me.
One of my latest stealth builds I've gotten to level 114 (day 40), but have yet to find a silencer, or a silencer schematic. about a bajillion impact bracers, but no silencers. I've been checking 4 of the traders every time they reset, all shotgun messiahs including the factory every reset, and focusing on buildings with weapon safes, and nada. But without that silencer, I can't finalize my playstyle. Over 7k 9mm ammo in a storage chest with maxed agility, perception, all sneak perks and pistol perks, a level 6 pistol with all the rest of my mods, but can't find a silencer to actually use the build to clear PoI's. A bow still works with the build, but not what I wanted the build to really do.
Basically I'm hoping some of the perks unlock mod schematics so you aren't forced into RNG waiting for the right attachments for your build. Waiting for that extended barrel and bipod for your sniper, that polymer string and arrow rest for your archer, etc. These attachments don't just empower a build, they can be necessary, and I think it would be nice for the build to unlock mods that correspond to the perk.
EG if the perk that unlocks more silent movement unlocks muffled connectors > impact bracing > advanced muffled connectors > silencer. The rifleman perk unlocks semi-auto trigger > bi-pod > extended barrel > muzzle brake, so on and so forth. if books are going to be available again to teach schematics, I don't see the problem with them being added to other perks as well to remove from RNG from the exact recipies you really need for your build.
Wonderful.
Before my eyes are two doors/bridges opening whenver a zombie tries to go through the other door/bridge that now closes. Or a circle where the zombie is always led around because always the next door is open. Absolutely useless construct. But the highlight of my next base.
Socrastein
New member
Man I have so much fun making absolutely useless constructs, specifically electrical/mechanical, in video games.
The more it looks like it does something (or many things!) whilst doing nothing at all, the better.
Ouch Quit It
Chronic Cougher
Awesome Gup....do you still have the boats i made on your server?
AtomicUs5000
New member
I try to do this at work as much as I can.
RestInPieces
New member
More like
Vapid Actions
New member
@RestInPieces
If you don't care about deaths and you're close to base sure, death isn't a "massive" penalty. It's an annoyance to a lot of players, but I know a lot of players (including myself) play hardcore. On death, gamesave gets deleted, and start over. Helps to not get into an endgame slump where it's just about sustaining your defences. One of the problems now is there's little way to kill a player in the very late game. While its unlikely a well equipped player would succomb to infection or disease, its more inventory space for antibiotics, and another way to slip up. No reason not to. Would be nice if each stage of the infection also had some effect other than a timer, as it probably still does. Increased stamina drain, reduced stats, the normal stuff making you weaker while your body fights the infection. That way the infection can be lethal through negligence, but also makes your surroundings more lethal.
I think previously the problem was infection incurred penalties far too slowly. Previously it took 9 in game hours for an infection to become lethal. You can traverse the entire map in 9 hours, it now takes 4-5 in game hours. It's also now far harder to cure, getting harder the longer it goes untreated, and harder to cure later in the game.
So if you're not concerned about dying, sure I guess, not really a problem, but what is then? It certainly seems like they changed it to make it much more dire. I also hope the penalties are also a bit stronger and not just still around. 1 stamina per second if you let it progress to stage 3? that's.... meh. More expensive to cure I guess, but not any more dangerous in the moment. The immunity perk will certainly be much more important for melee builds now.
If you don't care about deaths and you're close to base sure, death isn't a "massive" penalty. It's an annoyance to a lot of players, but I know a lot of players (including myself) play hardcore. On death, gamesave gets deleted, and start over. Helps to not get into an endgame slump where it's just about sustaining your defences. One of the problems now is there's little way to kill a player in the very late game. While its unlikely a well equipped player would succomb to infection or disease, its more inventory space for antibiotics, and another way to slip up. No reason not to. Would be nice if each stage of the infection also had some effect other than a timer, as it probably still does. Increased stamina drain, reduced stats, the normal stuff making you weaker while your body fights the infection. That way the infection can be lethal through negligence, but also makes your surroundings more lethal.
I think previously the problem was infection incurred penalties far too slowly. Previously it took 9 in game hours for an infection to become lethal. You can traverse the entire map in 9 hours, it now takes 4-5 in game hours. It's also now far harder to cure, getting harder the longer it goes untreated, and harder to cure later in the game.
So if you're not concerned about dying, sure I guess, not really a problem, but what is then? It certainly seems like they changed it to make it much more dire. I also hope the penalties are also a bit stronger and not just still around. 1 stamina per second if you let it progress to stage 3? that's.... meh. More expensive to cure I guess, but not any more dangerous in the moment. The immunity perk will certainly be much more important for melee builds now.
- Status