PC Alpha 18 Dev Diary!!

[SnowDog1942]

Fear is one of the worst emotions for me. I have never understood why someone wants to feel fear.
I have no problem investing work to feel safe.

I have spent the last two ingame weeks building a new base with the work area on the bedrock. The upper part of the base is surrounded by a wall of reinforced concrete and a trench filled with iron spikes. Since it's not a horde base but just a crafting base, it's actually overkill. The defense should only protect against wandering hordes and screamers. But better safe than sorry.

And it was a lot of fun to build the base. That's the kind of fun I want more for the game.

1) its not investing work, its playing a game.

2) u can be as safe as you want if u turn bloodmoons off, or zombies off or reduce the difficulty...or reduce the frequency of blood moons..use creative menu, etc.

3) Many people who invest work aka play games like a challenge. If u are safe there is no challenge.

 

[madmole]

Then, the one you want to butt heads with is MM. Since he is the one contemplating a mechanic that don't allow people the ability to run away. You are falling into the same trap as Grue, and going after suggestions that others are making based on what he contemplated, that can't, affect you in any way. Only TFP can. At least, be proactive, and suggest what you would like; Instead of being reactive, to people who you think can affect your game play, but can't.

You can run away no problem. I just want it to be an investment or some risk. Right now you can crack a mega crush and run. There is a cost associated and its fine. Or you can invest in cardio and prepare some coffee. Either way took an investment and I'm fine with that. I'd like vehicles to take damage from zombies and have some risks/cost to running from a blood moon is all, right now they don't take enough damage hitting a zombie and there is endless gas so its a no brainer way to dodge a horde, and that is a flaw IMO.

 

[Jedo]

What I criticised was not beeing able to mix specific combinations. Aka if I want to go Sledgehammer, I need strength. But If I want to be the farmer in our group, I also need to specc into fortitude. This might not be too bad since oyu need both. But if I want light armor, I also need Agility. Now if I want to barter, I also need Intellect. And if I want to be able to loot I also need perception.

That is all perks that I need to get up to level 10 to max out and that for only 5 skills (heavy metal, living off the land, barter, lucky looter, light armor) sure I now have the option to do everything, but that is not what I want.

Now as a comparison to A16:

If I wanted to be able to be good at the same things, you know what I needed to do? Just do it. I could max out all these things without ever having to "learn everything".

Why is this bad?

Because now I am "forced" to be the miner of the group if I want to go melee. I am "forced" to be the useless guy if I want to craft (btw so happy to see that ♥♥♥♥ go, but the overarching problem still stands of classes) if I want to be a silent guy, I am "forced" into light armor.

It is restricting. I can not play how I want for no other reason than "this is now considered fortitude".

There is no realism behind this. It is just arbitrary, as MM even stated in his video where he said that they made perk X that category because it would have felt too empty otherwise. And that is restricting.

Which can be good when well done, but do not act as if it is to enhance player choice, when it clearly doesnt.

Enhancing choices means having consequences -- that is meaningful. If u get everything there is no choice because well, u get it all.

To add to SnowDog: A body builder cannot also be a jockey. What if he wants to be both?

 

[SnowDog1942]

This was a great post. I played A16 and was having fun, until I couldn't reach my base at night in time. I scrambled to the top of a building and a day 28 horde couldn't reach me and didn't do squat to damage to this old bar I was camped on. I thought, why am I bothering to find guns and ammo and risking my life when all I need to do is _____. Why build a mega fort when all I need to do is _____. There has to be an impeding doom, a serious consequence to the player if they die. Otherwise it turns into minecraft and I set out to make a voxel survival game, not another minecraft clone.
At the end of the day there needs to be risks/rewards/failures. A good game will give you a variety of emotions and will most certainly leave you with some long lasting memories. To me the ones that stand out were always challenging in nature. Beating the butcher in Diablo was hard the first time. Getting a kraken skin in agario and learning all the advanced tricks to that game, being number one and eating everyone was rewarding and memorable. Lydia died in Skyrim, I felt kind of devastated because the npc and my character grew a meaningful connection. Beating the asses of the mordor forces in LOTR BFME was rewarding. I like Bethesda games because they are great at evoking feelings with story, player progression, and with some mods, death alternative its much better getting revenge than having to just reload a save game.

People play pvp for the challenge. Playing against an unpredictable opponent or full group of opponents is challenging.

So for us to just toss away one of the main pillars of this game (tower defense) and allow cheesy exploits to go on isn't acceptable.

But yes at a psychological level its important to have real wins. To some people its building a big castle in an apocalypse. I do that for the final FU to the zombies. To others its getting the best loot or maxing out their attributes. Some want to help the trader, it gives them a sense of purpose or they guaranteed reward is nice. Seeing your name at the top of a leader board can be rewarding.

But it is important to recognize what IS fun. It varies of course, but it is never fun for long if its handed to you on a silver platter. I never liked fixing rentals, but the reward was immense to buy something cheap, fix it up and turn it into a profiting investment and have cleaned up the neighborhood in the process. So it doesn't always have to be FUN, it has to be emotionally rewarding in some way.

Omfg, BFME 2 is an amazing game. I still play online with friends on an unofficial server that works great!

 

[RestInPieces]

Fear is one of the worst emotions for me. I have never understood why someone wants to feel fear.

It's free adrenaline, endorphins and dopamine, why wouldn't they?

 

[madmole]

Driving around on BM to avoid zombies, isn't much different than people climbing up towers in a POI to avoid BM. Or attempting to swim all night to avoid it, or what ever else means they will do. some people just dont like BM and will do whatever to not deal with it. youll never be able to FORCE people to deal with it, because they will always come up with a way to avoid it if that's what they want to do.

Not if we take some action. As long as there is risk, I'm ok with 1000 ways to escape the blood moon. I just don't like the super cheesy easy ones that have zero risk and little to no effort.

 

[Ayrton]

Hello Madmole, how are you? I have a query the bandits / NPCs are very far from the A19?

since Saturday I was playing Minecraft the last time, I know that 7 days does not compare to the minecraf and that they are different graphic engines and many more things, I only mention the game because it is very interesting the NPC in the minecraf added a lot of intelligence very well, hopefully one day we can have NPC to protect and trade with them, it is very nice and satisfying, you have to play it and you will understand me

 

[madmole]

One answer to BM avoidance could be to have the zombies go after any structures or stations that players have recently interacted with. By recently I mean within minutes to get people who logged off or went for a ride to avoid a the fight without wrecking someone who hasn't been online for a while.
Then for a carrot to go with that stick, BM zombies should have some drops among them - good drops that don't vanish until well after the BM.

That would just force these players to not play at all on blood moon days (or however long these bread crumbs last) and really punish heavily players who legitimately lost their connection during a blood moon.

 

[madmole]

I have thought of this before. At first it seemed like a good idea, but then a few problems came up...1) It wouldn't be fair if this was multiplayer and you lost connection for a moment.

2) How do you justify this behavior with the zombies? The lore is that they can sense players no matter what. Is it too far-fetched that they can also know where you were?

3) Wouldn't you just spend the day somewhere else?

Its good you are thinking it through though and seeing the flaws in the design.

 

[madmole]

M60 machine gun is going to problematic to keep supplied with ammo with the restrictive amount of lead. I speak of one raw lead being smelted into one lead whereas something like one raw iron is smelted into five iron.

I have no problem with ammo but I don't spray and pray everything I see, I use melee until my health is 50% or below and meds are low, then I use the machine gun. It depends if you have found mines yet and are willing to mine.

 

[Guppycur]

I've never turned hordes off, but I have skipped horde nights. I find them to be a grind, and not much of a challenging one at that.
I agree that it's a mechanic that really needs to be revisited.

-A

It's definitely a rinse/repeat operation that is only fun when friends are on...

 

[madmole]

Who the ♥♥♥♥ said to make it impossible? The option presented that I personally am all for is the "zombies rush your vehicle" minigame which makes it HARDER, not impossible to elude the horde in a vehicle.

Yes, we will aim for challenging solutions, not just cut it out. What I had said was some 2-3 year old idea when people used minibikes to outrun hordes. I like the idea of zeds running in front of your vehicle, vultures swarming your gyro, etc.

 

[Tin]

You can run away no problem. I just want it to be an investment or some risk. Right now you can crack a mega crush and run. There is a cost associated and its fine. Or you can invest in cardio and prepare some coffee. Either way took an investment and I'm fine with that. I'd like vehicles to take damage from zombies and have some risks/cost to running from a blood moon is all, right now they don't take enough damage hitting a zombie and there is endless gas so its a no brainer way to dodge a horde, and that is a flaw IMO.

Yep. Here's the thing though. As a player being on foot, it's not as easy to outrun the current "spawn mechanic", as it is on a vehicle. The spawn mechanic is slow, and you can always out run it atm. That's why I suggested a "possible" solution to the spawn issue, when you are rolling around in a vehicle. Will it work or not? idk. Haven't tested it.. yet. will at some point, just not anytime soon.

It's the current spawn mechanic that needs looking into, when it concerns the player being in a vehicles. Fix the spawn mechanic from being so slow, and being able to outrun it, and you may not even need to do anything else.

edit: Im using the term "Fix" loosely, it works, just needs something to always allow zombies to spawn ahead of the player.

 

[Anabella]

If a game mechanic is so unattractive to players wanting to experience it, especially the game machanic the game is named after, they are skipping it I see that as a major issue with the game.
I personally love the horde nights. I cant believe anyone skips them. I wish we had hard data on the % of players that actually skip them.

I really don't care much for them anymore. They take so much time to get ready for and build up the base, especially at the start. Time I would much rather be doing other stuff like exploring and doing quests. I have played way more vanilla in a17 than I have in a long time. The last time I played I just turned off the hordes and enjoyed the game and it was a whole lot better. No real reason to do them, just a thing that takes away half of my exploring time for practically no reward. Now in a16 I could build a horde defense in a days time and I didn't mind doing the horde, it isn't like that anymore.

 

[RipClaw]

It's free adrenaline, endorphins and dopamine, why wouldn't they?

Because it's all artificial. Besides, I don't need any extra excitement in my life. In my daily work I get more than enough adrenaline.

I play mostly to relax. For me, building is the most interesting part of 7 Days to die. I accept the other aspects because they are part of the game. Every now and then I get a taste for adventure and do a few quests but most of the time I prefer a calm game.

 

[DarlingCows]

Would it be possible to program a vehicle physics for horde night that you hit a zombie and slow down. Then if you hit a lot of zombies and eventually stop you risk the zombies beating on the vehicle until it blows up.

A possible risk solution for vehicles on horde night?

 

[RestInPieces]

Because it's all artificial. Besides, I don't need any extra excitement in my life. In my daily work I get more than enough adrenaline.
I play mostly to relax. For me, building is the most interesting part of 7 Days to die. I accept the other aspects because they are part of the game. Every now and then I get a taste for adventure and do a few quests but most of the time I prefer a calm game.

It being artificial is the good part! None wants to be at real risk. Are you working as a stuntman?

But yes, I can understand that someone would want to play the game to relax instead of being at tension. I enjoy building more than most things too, but I want it combined with that tension of having to survive, defend etc, something that Minecraft for example didn't offer.

 

[madmole]

I keep reading madmole saying that Mining is completly changed for Alpha 18.Where can i read about these changes?

i was also wondering if they planned to do anything about the stone shovel.

it`s stupid and it belongs in Minecraft.

If i didn`t have a shovel and i needed to dig i would make a wood shovel. better yet if i had access to some scrap iron it would make an excellent shovel.

It stupid? Sorry dude but we have three classes of tools, stone, iron and steel. I think most players can associate to the stone age just fine. Players don't have access to scrap iron and working with metal on day 1 so I disagree that its stupid. Realistically in a modern apocalypse it is, but game wise its a decent abstraction IMO.

 

[Fura]

Hello there madmole, been in the shadow following you work for a very long time probably back to 2014 or something, right now i was just wondering about the experimental version of A18, do you have any idea as accurate as it could be about the realease date ?

With my respects sir.


Fura

 

[Viktoriusiii]

To add to SnowDog: A body builder cannot also be a jockey. What if he wants to be both?

of course he can. Why should someone not be able to hit hard and be athletic? Ever watched these superman shows?

And I already spend my points in the different perks. Why do I need an overarching perk that defines if I can learn it?

I am not saying that a well thoughtout skillsystem doesn't work.

I'm saying it holds your hand and restricts your freedom. In a linear rpg for example, this is something great!

If you wanna go a dexs build, you cant go mage. Just play the story again after your finished.

This is not a linear, not an rpg and it doesn't have an end.

Hell, it doesn't even restrict you. If you just play long enough you can still do whatever you want and be an allrounder.

But in a sandbox open world, you do not want to hold back the players exploration. You want them to try everything.

In this a sandbox is fundamentally different from a linear rpg.

Spoiler

And no this game is not an RPG as much as they try to hammer it home.

There is no "role" you play, since there is no story in which you can roleplay in. There are no npcs to compare to. You do not have a predefined character.

You are just a nobody trying to survive. 7d2d is as much an RPG as Minecraft is.

Sure you can act roleplay'y. You can act as if you are the sherrif with his colt, or the sneaky guy just trying to avoid zombies. But there is nothing in the world that reacts to your "roleplay" nothing to compare it to.

There isn o guard telling you that you look shifty. There is no "we nords are strong and honorable, you could fit right in!".

You are just a dude who tries to survive.

So yeah... if the game is finished with npcs and all that... this "class system" might work if the world around it changes based on what you are. But until then this is just a restricting feature that tries to give you a choice but in reality just holds you back.

It is like a mom who punishes you for your bad grades by resigning you from your football club. Her intentions were honorable, but in reality it just hurt your development She calls it "consequence" as well.