PC Alpha 18 Dev Diary!!

[Shineblossom]

Being able to line up the shot should be enough... THAT takes skill. Buying a perk does not.

It rewards players for specialization. Otherwise, why not scrap whole level system? When i invest my points in sniper rifle, i want to be sure that my sniper rifle is better than your sniper rifle (since you did not invest any points in that). And that is the whole point.

I always think back to early World of Warcraft talents, mostly all minor number changes no real use/effect until the mist of pandaria expansion, that while not getting a rewarding talent point every level you hit milestones and could pick a new ability basically (15/30/45/60). I would for sure prefer a usable perk/ability over number increases.
so original talents vs Mist of Pandaria version

The classic talents were much better, especially in Wrath of the Lich King. First, you had "reward" feeling every level. Second, those "minor number adjustments" played a huge role and you could do multiple builds with them, even combine multiple specs together. Now, both are impossible. To be more specific, in new talents, you can "choose" one perk per row. The "choose" is in quotes, because we both know that it is not true, since only one of them is viable.

 

[Aldranon]

Being able to line up the shot should be enough... THAT takes skill. Buying a perk does not.

Well, good mouse handling ability is something for sure. You can still aim for a headshot on the first zombie and probably get several in one shot. THAT will be both fun and funny.

 

[meganoth]

My question is this.
Why is penetration not a base mechanic for every weapon?

When I read that it was for the hunting rifle, my first thought was "damn, only on that useless weapon I didn't fire a single shot from for a year (real time).". The next thought was "ok, well, this was probably needed to make that weapon into something you would consider to use".

 

[Guppycur]

Perks for the most part govern character advancement (or so it seems to me). I think most of us can agree that character advancement is a critical part of the game. So I'm curious as to what you think is a better way. Are you a member of the LBD community?
While I do see places in the game where this approach can work and makes sense, I can say that I've played a few games (Ultima Online and Runescape) that were almost entirely LBD and quite frankly the only way to not lose your mind was to set up macros that ran while you slept. (Bannable offenses btw)

Overall I enjoy the perk system and I think the new books coming will compliment it very well but I'm interested in what you think would be a better system of developing/advancing your Character.

Absolutely lbd. Because that's how life works. Game was fun when it had it, and the fun factor has gone down since it was removed while the pimps fumble around with perk balancing.

Lbd didn't work for you in 20+ year old games? Where lbd was first introduced as a concept? Yeh I can accept that.

But it's 2019, and lbd has been done right since Dungeon Siege. Another 20 yo game, so I guess it's implementation?

But we are talking skills now, while I'm specifically targeting perks. Hate em.

 

[Guppycur]

@shine

There are ways to reward specialization that aren't dumb. Being able to USE special weapons, load times, less jams, etc. All of which can increase by skill, not buying perks btw.

 

[Lonestarcanuck]

OMG I broke ur immershun. Get over it. You can rationalize its aiming for where there is no bone so the bullet can pass through and it is a learned technique, not a special ammo.

We need Telescoped Ammo!

 

[Survager]

Electromagnetic storm can shut down vehicles. Vultures will definitely take out bicycle dudes.

Joel, is this just a reasoning or something like that is planned in alpha 18 or alpha 19 or latter?

 

[Mideval]

I'm a fan of Ultima Online and Skyrim and I loved LBD. This is not UO or Skyrim here you can not use afk macros freely.

But on the other hand, I understood Madmole's criticism of some LBD skills that did not make sense. But combat skills and other skills worked very well with LBD.

I think the hybrid system would have been the best solution, but I respect the decision of the developers.

It is a field open to modders and I do not understand why a modder that can "easily" modify the game can complain about it. In any case, you should complain if the systems to do so provided by TFP do not work properly.

 

[THARN]

Should be a perk for less complaining..

some people are more rpg oriented-others more fps oriented... Not everyone is going to like everything.

 

[Shineblossom]

When I read that it was for the hunting rifle, my first thought was "damn, only on that useless weapon I didn't fire a single shot from for a year (real time).". The next thought was "ok, well, this was probably needed to make that weapon into something you would consider to use".

Depens on preferences. I personally LOVE the hunting rifle. It is not as good for BloodMoon Hordes, but open world, i take her out for dinner every time!

@shine
There are ways to reward specialization that aren't dumb. Being able to USE special weapons, load times, less jams, etc. All of which can increase by skill, not buying perks btw.

Obviously, but i have to agree with Joel. Your character has to know how to shoot, to shoot penetrating shot. Not getting stacked in thickest part in skull etc. Of course, they could make 1000 little hitboxes on head (good lock, FPS even on high end computers!), and you would have to manually hit the right spot. Also, weapon jamming is not in the game. It would be hilarious, but it is not.

 

[Exxodous]

Absolutely lbd. Because that's how life works. Game was fun when it had it, and the fun factor has gone down since it was removed while the pimps fumble around with perk balancing.
Lbd didn't work for you in 20+ year old games? Where lbd was first introduced as a concept? Yeh I can accept that.

But it's 2019, and lbd has been done right since Dungeon Siege. Another 20 yo game, so I guess it's implementation?

But we are talking skills now, while I'm specifically targeting perks. Hate em.

While I respect your opinion I guess I just don't hate em lol. If your a hard core LBD believer I'm guessing Perks will never feel right. Consider the following however and let me know what you think.

It appears that TFP's goal is to not only have a system where you advance your character but you must also specialize your build. ie a builder, hunter, fighter, miner etc. Character progression has to be advanced somehow and two possible ways are LBD and Perks. I think the difference between the LBD and Perk systems as a way of advancing and developing your character is this:

In a completely LBD system if you play long enough eventually everyone's character is the same as they will have learned all skills. (unless you have a hard cap on overall skills) The problem with a hard cap in a LBD system is that if I do not want a miner character I must be careful to not hit any rocks as that puts points in a skill I do not want to specialize in, thus preventing me from using them where I want as I'll hit the hard cap.

Using a perk system it seems character specialization is easier to control while also providing a means of character development. Obviously this still requires a hard cap (skill points) but the advantage is I can still mine rocks if I need to make a campfire but I'm not forced into using my points there. I'll just never be very good at mining no matter how long I play.

Obviously A17 didn't implement all of this very well as most builds seemed to gravitate to the same skill sets so I'm interested to see if that is improved in A18. It sounds like it has based on MM feedback posts.

 

[The Gronk]

When I read that it was for the hunting rifle, my first thought was "damn, only on that useless weapon I didn't fire a single shot from for a year (real time).". The next thought was "ok, well, this was probably needed to make that weapon into something you would consider to use".

By all means give the hunting rifle superior penetration, it is after all a poor-mans sniper rifle. If you're going to add penetration for one weapon why not add it for all? Singling out the hunting rifle for this special ability will probably lead to cries of OP. If you do it for all the worst cry you're going to get is one of unbalanced.

Does it make any sense at all that a hunting rifle has better penteration than a sniper rifle? What are you hunting? Tanks?

 

[potato33]

If the game has global weather, will there be an umbrella, jumpsuit?

 

[Gareee]

How does it know where the other traders are? Is it xml only?

Yup, xml only. Here's the forum link to his mods.. its at the bottom on the first post. We used it in a16 as well as in a17 up until feb or so, and it works perfectly. We are sitting out waiting for the a18 exp releases and catching up on other games in the meantime.

BTW, a minecraft feature of note since you asked, is an area effect in underwater temples.

Your block breaking capability is nerfed during the area effect, forcing you to navigate the random generated temple mazes. While "gamey", it really makes you think differently out of the box on solutions.. especially since there are low light levels and the possibility of drowning the whole time. We just did our first one and it was hellah fun.

 

[madmole]

This has the potential to radically change the game! It'll be interesting to see what defines a soft wall. Shapes, like plates and sheets? Materials, like dirt and wood? Or is it dynamic, based on the current HP of the block?
Scenario: While mining, you hear zombies digging into the dirt above you. Instead of having to surface or dig your way to them, you listen carefully and shoot them through the dirt.

Scenario: You're in PvP, trying to get a guy stubbornly holed up in his hardened bunker. You damage one concrete block enough to make it 'soft', but you don't destroy it. You train your sniper rifle on the block, and when you see the cracks start to disappear, you fire. The poor guy on the other side, trying to make repairs, is dead before he hits the ground.

Yeah I think its block hp. I hope to shoot through some wooden doors that are about to break from them hitting it and shoot them while the door is still intact.

 

[madmole]

It's my bad, from the discussion I misunderstood that it was a book reward, which IMO would have been too specific to give it a mechanic like penetration.

Well currently it is a completion bonus for the magnum, so after collecting all 7 magnum books you can penetrate. We're still moving things around and could make the AP bullets do this instead of a perk. Its a game so it doesn't bother me, we're fighting radiated zombies and carrying 30 tons of stone around.

 

[Gareee]

Yeah that doesn't work for me, it would have to for sure link you to the next trader not the same one possibly again.

It does. The trader quest links you to the closest trader, if I recall right. we never saw it fail in that at all in probably a hundred or two hours of gameplay. we would head out on the motorcycle, look for houses and mailboxes, and then see what the trader had to offer.

 

[madmole]

There is now a metal version of Diggy Diggy Hole.I kid you not.

So that is how you deal with the grindy mining in this game. I could dig for hours too rocking it out to that

 

[Gareee]

I'm torn on that, needing a specific resource in a specific biome gives you reason to travel and find that particular biome. I found no lakes so I had to spend a full day finding a snow biome for water, and it felt rewarding when I did. Until then, I couldn't waste any water on glue.

Thats something I miss from earlier experimentals. At least in a17, pretty much every resource was available in every biome. I want reasons to HAVE to explore the new rwg map to find things we really need. With fewer biomes that was an issue, but now that we'll have sub biomes, maybe some materials can be sub biome specific?

 

[madmole]

I read and re-read this but I think I still must not understand. Are you saying if a player has 80 bullets, they can make a box or belt or whatever containing 100 bullets?

No that would be infinite ammo. 80% of the cost to craft 100 rounds in mats. For 9mm its 80 casings, 80 GP, 80 tips to make a box of 9mm ammo which is 100 rounds. You unpack it when you need them and it converts to 100 9mm bullets.