PC Alpha 18 Dev Diary!!
- Thread starter madmole
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madmole
Fun Pimps Staff
No plans for infinite worlds or anything larger than 16k. Gas needs to be more scarce so if you want to drive everywhere you will probably be actively looking for gas like you for ammo and ammo resources. I honestly don't see the value in super huge worlds because as it stands one city out lives my entire play session for looting. Why would I travel to another city when there is 75 real time hours of looting right here.Hello guys, will we get the infinite rwg back again, or atleast sizes like 50kmx50km? Even the current 16x16 feels like a afternoon stroll once you have vehicles. Also generating anything beyond 16x16 can take days. I tried generating a 64x64km map and it never finished.
Would be great to hear from you guys!
n2n1
Well-known member
Being able to walk as much as you want is freedom, it's worth a lot.
Even if i don't use it - i need to know that i have the opportunity.
This gives 1000 points for a sense of the reality of the world!
Despite the fact that you say that the size of the sufficient - but on practice, i see that people very often face with his invisible walls.
Аnd the placement of cities close to each other - worsens the situation. Exploration, journey - is lost.
Maybe it makes sense to make it exclusive to SP, if MP puts limitations on it ?
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R
Rassilon
Guest
For me, its the temptation of exploring, sometimes living as a Nomad and traveling from town to town.
While im exited for 16k maps, everything above really is an overkill.
As you stated, for a normal session an 8k map allready is enough.
Only on MP Servers like i manage one, we want to have some distance from other players and then make tours with the minibike/Jeep
ecv
New member
Have you ever tried an eight people co-op game?
With eight players having at it, that city is a wreck after one or two rl day. And on day two half those players have to work (rl) while the other half is going to work on the next city. They come back for an hour of after work relaxation only to find all interesting poi already patched, pathed and looted.
So the impulse is to get to another city to have some fresh poi feeling. After a rl week that map is ruined. Can't wipe every week as it's hard to coordinate for eight players to be there for reset-day
Then there's the added gamestage. A new player can not loot a city with higher exp players in them. Radiated everywhere in the first game week. Nobody can handle those when new to the world. So they too need a starter city. There's always a few people power levelling, new players need to stay far away from them. Bigger maps are perfect for longer term worlds
a public eight player server will get at least five fresh players every day and a few strays who go away after dying once. They'll do a lot of damage.
I suppose most of that can be balanced.
Can you make the size optional? In five years we can run that 16kb map on our smartphone and the desktop will have no trouble with a 50k world, what, with 64 core 6GHz computers and a multicore entry level gtx dual 6080... Would be sad if the engine would clamp them to yesteryear. Right now, the server will not start with a 20k+ map
Damn, why do I always end up with walls of text
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n2n1
Well-known member
This is not a RWG-generation problem! If you want the biomes may change each step!
It's about the size of world.
On the contrary, the journey to find the desert can be fun and interesting and motivate the player. Otherwise, you need to remove all the transport - it is not needed in this miserable piece of 8x8 meters.
Why do you add these absurdities. You've already explained everything when you said about the technical side of the problem. People feel like you're inventing nonexistent causes....
It's not necessary... it's offensive.
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Damocles
New member
The best solution currently is to use a custom map with several obstacles along the paths (mainly large bodies of water).
That increases the travel times a lot, traversing the map, compared to a relatively unobstructed map.
For a higher player count, its best to just increase the density and size of settlements.
In the end 16k means around 256 square kilometers or around 100 square miles of playfield.
(12k around 144 square kilometers, also more than enough actually)
With a smart topological structure of the map, there is a long way to go already, even for large servers.
Going higher than 16k would require a different setup of the world (splitting it into segments), that adds more complexity, and I can see why they dont want to do that for those few use-cases.
That increases the travel times a lot, traversing the map, compared to a relatively unobstructed map.
For a higher player count, its best to just increase the density and size of settlements.
In the end 16k means around 256 square kilometers or around 100 square miles of playfield.
(12k around 144 square kilometers, also more than enough actually)
With a smart topological structure of the map, there is a long way to go already, even for large servers.
Going higher than 16k would require a different setup of the world (splitting it into segments), that adds more complexity, and I can see why they dont want to do that for those few use-cases.
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The Gronk
Colon Pounder
We used to have larger worlds, there was even a system implemented to get around a "shakey-hands" bug that happened far from the centre of the map.
That was cut short when the generation system was changed to use splatmaps instead of a fully procedural world.
I'd say 16k should be the minimum, even on a SP game.
madmole
Fun Pimps Staff
Completely irrelevant when you can do a quest and the POI is reset and chock full of loot for you. Adding a bigger world doesn't really encourage interaction between players which iMO is interesting. It doesn't really solve anything in an elegant way. We'll eventually get some kind of poi reset function that restores pois that a server can turn on for your scenario.Have you ever tried an eight people co-op game? With eight players having at it, that city is a wreck after one or two rl day. And on day two half those players have to work (rl) while the other half is going to work on the next city. They come back for an hour of after work relaxation only to find all interesting poi already patched, pathed and looted.
So the impulse is to get to another city to have some fresh poi feeling. After a rl week that map is ruined. Can't wipe every week as it's hard to coordinate for eight players to be there for reset-day
Then there's the added gamestage. A new player can not loot a city with higher exp players in them. Radiated everywhere in the first game week. Nobody can handle those when new to the world. So they too need a starter city. There's always a few people power levelling, new players need to stay far away from them. Bigger maps are perfect for longer term worlds
a public eight player server will get at least five fresh players every day and a few strays who go away after dying once. They'll do a lot of damage.
I suppose most of that can be balanced.
Can you make the size optional? In five years we can run that 16kb map on our smartphone and the desktop will have no trouble with a 50k world, what, with 64 core 6GHz computers and a multicore entry level gtx dual 6080... Would be sad if the engine would clamp them to yesteryear. Right now, the server will not start with a 20k+ map
Damn, why do I always end up with walls of text
Remove vehicles for the win!Modern day "Supply and Demand"!
you supply a bigger map and they demand more and faster vehicles to get across the bigger map... rinse and repeat because the faster vehicles shrink the map.
well at least the gyro-copter..Or just make mountains/cliff/canyons rougher, to go off-road and over, with vehicles, so they need to go around them mostly instead.
beerfly
Colony Rounder
First level I started on this game was RWG 16x16 back then , a10 or ♥♥♥♥. I had no idea how big it is and because of my part time stupidity, I refused to build a base, and became nomad. It was ♥♥♥♥ing great. (smell was big part of that back then cuz running in the night with meat was goood). I know what these guys mean, they love exploring and less repetitiveness. But, even Space have its own limits. Good point Joe.Modern day "Supply and Demand"!
you supply a bigger map and they demand more and faster vehicles to get across the bigger map... rinse and repeat because the faster vehicles shrink the map.
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Or have areas of the map that you actually have to manipulate (dig, build, rebuild, repair, do a cave through a mountain) to have access to another part of the map. In some sort of quest story, for a given time.Remove vehicles for the win!
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