PC Alpha 18 Dev Diary!!
- Thread starter madmole
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madmole
Fun Pimps Staff
As I said, 7 Days has zero occlusion. NONE. Frustrum occlusion is all it has. So you render every polygon and every entity and having caves just adds to the list of problems we already have. We don't have 16k worlds yet, generating them is too slow. So should we put a feature in 2% of the players want and block a feature 50% of the players want? Then there is stability concerns.
Anyhow it might come in a future build, but its not in the cards for 18. Until then, Get off your ass and carve your own cave with a pickaxe
The Gronk
Colon Pounder
Why have a difference between terrain and a building? None exists conceptually, it's all just a collection of blocks.And for that you have to load enough chunks to cover the area that the POI could potentially cover.Not doing that is the principle behind all that distant-anything.
The server is expected to run slightly better specs than any of the clients. Have the server send a data packet containing the bare essentials required for the client to build the distant mesh, both terrain and buildings at the same time, as the same chunk.
This needs to be solved at some point. I've collapsed a building next to my base to make space for the entrance. To say that the sudden disappearance of the original prefab as I'm heading home is immersion breaking is an understatement, it's physically jarring.
Damocles
New member
Its cheaper and easier to generate the distant terrain based on the original hightmap (wich is a simple 2d hightmap at start), than on the actual voxels in the world.
Thats why we dont have natural overhangs generated in 7DtD, as there are in Minecraft.
The overhangs are only there when made by a player, or defined by a POI.
R
Rassilon
Guest
you, Sir, just made the whole of Germany and Belgium and Czech your enemy!
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very glad to hear that 16k maps are still kinda on the List and i keep fingers crossed for some kind of occlusion system in the futureAs I said, 7 Days has zero occlusion. NONE. Frustrum occlusion is all it has. So you render every polygon and every entity and having caves just adds to the list of problems we already have. We don't have 16k worlds yet, generating them is too slow. So should we put a feature in 2% of the players want and block a feature 50% of the players want? Then there is stability concerns.
Anyhow it might come in a future build, but its not in the cards for 18. Until then, Get off your ass and carve your own cave with a pickaxe
n2n1
Well-known member
OMG!.... that is.... all the distant blocks are first drawn in the frame buffer, and then just closed by nearest? ....no work z-buffer?As I said, 7 Days has zero occlusion. NONE. Frustrum occlusion is all it has. So you render every polygon and every entity and having caves just adds to the list of problems we already have. We don't have 16k worlds yet, generating them is too slow. So should we put a feature in 2% of the players want and block a feature 50% of the players want? Then there is stability concerns.
Anyhow it might come in a future build, but its not in the cards for 18. Until then, Get off your ass and carve your own cave with a pickaxe
ie the entire array of blocks that are in front of the player - drawn on the screen?...
ie, nearest blocks that obstruct the subsequent do not exclude rendering those who follow them?
this.... is a enormous loss of performance........
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Mechanimal
RangerRedd
What are the chances you will attempt to implement a better water block for A18? A19? Are any modders, can any modders, try making such a block?(not overhauling world water, just a new block to play with.)
I was just randomly thinking about it, then remembered how it worked in Minecraft, forever ago, and that is a voxel world, so...
I've heard it is complicated, but does it really have to be? Like what would it take to implement pretty much the same behavior for water as there was in Minecraft years ago? It worked ok enough there, better than in 7DTD, why? I think with most other blocks the resource jump is obvious, having much higher poly counts and textures, but a "block of water" should be simpler geometrically(to start anyway), and the texture generic by comparison too. Maybe try to just get a solid blue square to behave the same as MC water as a test, then tweak it from there.
Not just still water either, also rivers with running water, with same/similar behavior as in MC. Maybe look into their code/method for inspiration. Seems like it would be worth another try, just don't attempt an extreme overhaul or anything daunting or risky to start, I can def understand why you'd avoid that. So just leave existing water as-is, make a new block and play with it on it's own until it works, then deal with implementing it into world once the block is ready, that seems like a whole other phase/task anyway, so break it up into more digestible phases. It's just the more I think about it the more I am wondering why not, just keep the mesh/behavior really simple at first, ease into it.
I was just randomly thinking about it, then remembered how it worked in Minecraft, forever ago, and that is a voxel world, so...
I've heard it is complicated, but does it really have to be? Like what would it take to implement pretty much the same behavior for water as there was in Minecraft years ago? It worked ok enough there, better than in 7DTD, why? I think with most other blocks the resource jump is obvious, having much higher poly counts and textures, but a "block of water" should be simpler geometrically(to start anyway), and the texture generic by comparison too. Maybe try to just get a solid blue square to behave the same as MC water as a test, then tweak it from there.
Not just still water either, also rivers with running water, with same/similar behavior as in MC. Maybe look into their code/method for inspiration. Seems like it would be worth another try, just don't attempt an extreme overhaul or anything daunting or risky to start, I can def understand why you'd avoid that. So just leave existing water as-is, make a new block and play with it on it's own until it works, then deal with implementing it into world once the block is ready, that seems like a whole other phase/task anyway, so break it up into more digestible phases. It's just the more I think about it the more I am wondering why not, just keep the mesh/behavior really simple at first, ease into it.
beHypE
New member
I hope this will make the list. The old caves where you had to do some scaffolding to get to those tunnels or vein ores were amazing times. And with modding possibilities i'm sure the underworld would add endless possibilities.As I said, 7 Days has zero occlusion. NONE. Frustrum occlusion is all it has. So you render every polygon and every entity and having caves just adds to the list of problems we already have. We don't have 16k worlds yet, generating them is too slow. So should we put a feature in 2% of the players want and block a feature 50% of the players want? Then there is stability concerns.
Anyhow it might come in a future build, but its not in the cards for 18. Until then, Get off your ass and carve your own cave with a pickaxe
R
Rassilon
Guest
Either Gazz or Madmole explained it fairly well a few weeks ago.
Current water is pretty close to minecraft water, exept for the flow part.
This seems to be fairly difficult to code, as calculations of Waterflow to different hights in surrounding Blocks eat a sh*tton of Ressources
Water is on their list, but when they will get to it is unknown.
There seem to be several ideas on how to approach this, but each with a lot of drawbacks.
Mechanimal
RangerRedd
oh... of course I bring up functional water blocks amidst talk of caves... haha, sorry, tis a rather volatile mix, albeit uncomfortably appropriate to consider the two interacting sooner than later. TAKE THAT CPU !!!! mwuahaha.
Mechanimal
RangerRedd
Ah, thanks, figured it popped up before, and have been reading forums, musta just missed that.
Weazelsun
New member
Aw... of course. So speaking of bandits and I know this a longs way off. How will they be implemented? Like if I were a new a player that simply skimmed over the description of the game and bought this solely for zombies. How would the bandits be shown as a possible threat? Simply only during quests or will there be a chance of encountering some sort of bandit scout. Since I know for me personally, if I were to be attacked by a bandit that could use melee and do the same the actions as me, I would definitely be caught off-guard.
Damocles
New member
They should be more than just mindless maniacs, that attack out of nowhere.
Somehow warning the player to enter an area "thats our town, our loot".
So only attack if the player does not comply, trespasses or attacks them first.
Kind of like "roadblocks" to a high yield area, such as city-centers.
In the Walking Dead, "Bandits" usually first try to extort people for resources, before actually attacking.
My idea would be that they place a kind of dropchest, that the player has to insert a certain amount o resources regularily. If the player does not comply, they start an attack.
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Cernwn
New member
If you introduced spoilage where fresh food/meat/eggs spoils (gains food poisoning percentage) at the rate of the stack size it is in, it would entirely solve this issue. That way, if people want their carried food to spoil slower, they will carry smaller stacks and store it in a functional cooler(on a vehicle) or fridge(at their base) when not on them. The larger the stack, the faster it spoils.
This actually happens IRL based on gasses released by decaying matter causing decay to spread, and is where the idiom "one bad apple spoils the whole batch" originates. TBH though, for balance sake would also need to add dehydrating, salting/curing/smoking and canning as viable means to preserve foods for longer journeys. Definitely a few new workbenches out of that, and would make salt+sugar valuable resources. However, this would be a major time+resource sink. Some people enjoy immersion, while others do not.
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