PC Alpha 18 Dev Diary!!

[madmole]

It was dropped, deliberately, to get the zombies overconfident and henceforth, make mistakes.


GENIUS is rarely understood in its own time...

MM, can I get early access to A18 now?

Flattery gets you everywhere

 

[RestInPieces]

I agree with the premise that too much micromanagement added to the game interferes with ambitious structure builds as BUILDING is the highlight of an open world voxel game.. Which is why ideas like spoilage need to be cast into the nine planes of hell.

Really? Can you explain how exactly spoilage would "interfere" with building? Zombies "interfere" with building too, does that mean that zombies are problematic? I think that what you really mean is that "I want to be able to ignore any part of the game I don't like" - which I (and others I bet) would respect more, if you were straightforward about it.

The game is a combination (aka elements in synergy) of various genres and already offers menu options that allow you to have no "interference" to what you like - if you like to focus on building only, use creative mode, if you like to focus on building with zombies, use the lowest block damage, and while at that you can also use 200% loot so that the need to get materials does not ...interfere with your builds.

 

[madmole]

NO don't nerf feather, I love arrows. And do whatever you want, but arrows are not enough ever.

Sorry but we never nerfed how many nests there were or the feathers when we added the retrievable arrows, and there is a perk now that lets you retrieve even more. That said on day 1 I have 400 feathers and its ridiculous. People are talking about spoilage but this is a more serious issue having endless ammo. There are vultures added too, which farm feathers. I can cut nests in half and stop the bacon and egg endless food in one line of code.

 

[Trankitas]

Madmole, for new players, there is a modification that could be interesting. After playing with a dozen players who didn't know the game, I had to teach them each time that to know the function of an object, it was necessary to click on the object then on "recipes". Each time, they were surprised and could thus discover craft possibilities they didn't know or even imagine.
Would it be possible that each time you click on an item in the inventory, the possible recipes appear automatically ?

Cool idea (for new players), but for the people who knows how to play, it would be a little bothering. If you are looking at a recipe, and you want to heal or something, you'll have to search the previous recipe again.

 

[madmole]

Definitely. Bow and arrow is the go to weapon in every single of my groups playthroughs. Craftable on day 1, 100% reliable, unlimited ammunition, surprisingly accurate even at its lowest quality/tier, totally stealthy and basically fits every single situation, even indoors. I'm forcing myself to go melee early game because I feel like playing 100% bow & arrow is way too easy, at least melee forces you to have a little bit of finger sync and messing up your timing has an actual consequence.
Oh, and the makeshift bow is way too powerful. I mean, WAY too powerful. With 1 or 2 points in the perception tree (like Boom! Headshot) you can very quickly 1-shot basic zombies if you crouch, even on Warrior difficulty. It should do less damage, be less precise and have a way shorter range (with some technique you can snipe zombies from a very long distance since it has "arrow-drop" but no damage fall-off). Honestly it's so good that I don't even play with guns other than using them as a backup plan if ♥♥♥♥ gets mad crazy, just because gun usage comes with so many disadvantages (repair cost, ammunition cost/craft time, noise) while you don't really need the extra damage in a lot of situations.

That being said i'm TOTALLY convinced higher-end bows (compound, crossbow) should be a very viable playstyle so probably don't nerf those. The real issue is coming from the makeshift bow.

Also yeah, feathers. If feathers were (way) less abundant it would make you think twice about using your bow when you have other, more risky solutions available.

Since you're talking a lot about stack sizes these days, have you thought about having a max stack-size of like 20 arrows per slot but adding quivers to the game ? Quivers could work nicely with your new 3-tier system, along the lines of having stack-sizes of respectively 50, 100 and 200, and possibly improving reload time.

We have this new slick "open" item feature that unpacks a bundle of something. We could make a quiver that holds 100 arrows, but you unpack it and it would make 5 stacks of 20 arrows then. So you could carry a few of these and "open" them when you need to use the arrows. Not sure we're going there, just saying its possible.
Currently we use it to open a box of ammo and the new "art of mining" book has a perk that lets you craft bundles of ore, so you can carry 5 bundles (6k rocks in each one), so 30k of stone in one slot. I'm sure this feature will provide some use as we get into inventory management, like maybe be able to have a "case of purified water" as a rare loot from an air drop that you wouldn't want to unpack right away until you get back to your base. I can see some funny scenarios too where someone unpacks it and most of it spills on the ground because they didn't have enough room for it.

 

[madmole]

I'm kind of sad that TFP seem to focus only on the survival aspect of this game. Let's nerf this, let's make this harder to get, let's make it more punishing to die, or else the players will get bored. Let's reduce stack sizes, otherwise it's too easy..
What happened to the sandbox part of this game? That was in the Kickstarter too, but nobody seems to mention it anymore..

Survival for me is boring. What I like is building awesome structures and contraptions, crafting, killing bosses, doing quests, pvp.. worrying about food is not for me sadly

We're trying to be responsible and I'm not seeing any negative reviews saying we ruined the building aspects to this game. Survival and core game loops need some serious balance yet for this game to reach its potential. I don't see food as ever being a huge problem but it should be an issue early game.

 

[madmole]

I agree to an extent.The harsh truth is that a lot of players are not very good at the game. Watch some noob or "returning from a12" streamers for a reality check. I make it a point to do that once in a while. Hehe

If you want more bullet-spongy enemies, increase the difficulty.

There is a certain point where if something feels useless nobody will use it. A lot of people think the blunderbuss is useless and it probably is now because firearms are too available.

 

[madmole]

but you are forced to to some things in order to survive, instead of doing what you like. so it's not 100% sandbox. Im not arguing that it should be 100%, i just think it should be more.

Can you work or party a week straight IRL without sleep, food or taking a crap? This game is about time management and survival. Once you manage your time, and build up some supplies you get some fun time. Until then you need to work doing things you might not want to do. It needs to be a blend of survival, scavenging, mining etc in order to have your fun time. Some players purely enjoy the looting and killing aspects, and exploration of new POIS. Others like to build etc. It sounds like you want the game to be more like minecraft, where the majority of players like a challenging survival experience.

To me personally when the challenge is gone I stop playing. In all honesty the best build for me was about A11 or when zombies dug under your base and we had gravel mining. At the time I thought these jerks digging under my base was bs, but I was in a loop of rebuilding/repairing a lot and trying to get more concrete under there, traps to slow them down, anything really. I had a puzzle to solve and it was engaging, despite me thinking it was BS. I mean sometimes we think we want something else, but then you get that and its not as good for an unexplained reason.

I get it now, there must be some kind of continued challenge. I hope we can introduce various special zombies at various game stages that make players have to rethink. Imagine early game you get a box fort you think your doing ok. You survive the first horde barely.... so then you build spikes and reinforce walls a bit, add a some walkways etc. Then you do well and survive, but then next week more come and maybe you die or barely survive, but you put together in your mind, I need more spikes or a trench or something better. So you do that, solve it for another horde but then the spiders come and get over your walls and cause new problems. Build taller walls is now on my todo list. Then acid pukers come, maybe I need concrete now. Then vultures, maybe some auto turrets to shoot them, or some kind of chain link above my fort. Then the bunker busters come, I need this.

My dream game is we can feed new AI every few hordes and make players have to find ways to adapt to the changing hordes. To me that would be a blast. Give players tools to solve these problems and see what they come up with. Not too much grind. A11 had too much repair. It was a bad design, but at a simple level it was good because I was obsessed with solving it as a player.

 

[Menace312]

Badass. I'm not rushing you, but a video with it will be nice.

Seconded!

 

[madmole]

You don't really need brass to be a physics object. After the ejected brass animation, just slap an inexpensive empty casing decal on the ground where the player was standing when the shot was fired. Multiple brass fired on the same tile stacks onto the same decal, and maybe have three different decals for low/medium/high brass density on that tile. Then you harvest them with E, or require an "Empty Brass Sack" in your inventory to hold them or whatever.
Not saying it's something I'm advocating for necessarily, but it's completely possible without the huge impact of thousands of small physics objects.

Or get off your ass and find more brass or ammo. Again, why does everyone want new features to do things you can already do just fine. This is a balance issue. I think ejecting brass would look great as a visual polish, but it would be really bad for game play. I don't want to run around looking for bullet casings in the cracks of floors and target each one precisely to pick it up. Even if we brought back the old vacuum code it would be kind of OP and take away from scavenging brass. Its a I want my cake and eat it too situation. Next thing people will want to harvest "shot zombies" and get their lead back. Where does it stop. It stops here my friend, with my big fat NO.

 

[Menace312]

We have this new slick "open" item feature that unpacks a bundle of something. We could make a quiver that holds 100 arrows, but you unpack it and it would make 5 stacks of 20 arrows then. So you could carry a few of these and "open" them when you need to use the arrows. Not sure we're going there, just saying its possible.
Currently we use it to open a box of ammo and the new "art of mining" book has a perk that lets you craft bundles of ore, so you can carry 5 bundles (6k rocks in each one), so 30k of stone in one slot. I'm sure this feature will provide some use as we get into inventory management, like maybe be able to have a "case of purified water" as a rare loot from an air drop that you wouldn't want to unpack right away until you get back to your base. I can see some funny scenarios too where someone unpacks it and most of it spills on the ground because they didn't have enough room for it.

This sounds really freaking cool!

I really hope those bundles makes it in!

 

[Weazelsun]

Sorry but we never nerfed how many nests there were or the feathers when we added the retrievable arrows, and there is a perk now that lets you retrieve even more. That said on day 1 I have 400 feathers and its ridiculous. People are talking about spoilage but this is a more serious issue having endless ammo. There are vultures added too, which farm feathers. I can cut nests in half and stop the bacon and egg endless food in one line of code.

I would rather see those damn iron debris, brick debris, and boulders in the wasteland and wood branches on the ground in the desert cut in half. So, annoying when using a jeep and having to continually get in and out having to repair it since there's so much debris on the ground in those biomes.

 

[Rassilon]

Regarding Stack Sizes:

i agree completly with Mad Mole, that sizes needs to be balanced and Survival Stuff need to have a harsh limit to demand planning and thinking ahead.

My wish would be increased Stack Sizes for Chests/Containers that you have in the Base.

I know im a horder, but i got sooo many crates each Playthrough because Slots run out when i gather a lot from 1 Item.

Lets say: You can story 10k Stone per Slot in a chest, but only 1k Stone per Slot in your Inventory ( just for ratio )

How about that, Mr. Mole ?^^

 

[Tin]

Spoiler

Can you work or party a week straight IRL without sleep, food or taking a crap? This game is about time management and survival. Once you manage your time, and build up some supplies you get some fun time. Until then you need to work doing things you might not want to do. It needs to be a blend of survival, scavenging, mining etc in order to have your fun time. Some players purely enjoy the looting and killing aspects, and exploration of new POIS. Others like to build etc. It sounds like you want the game to be more like minecraft, where the majority of players like a challenging survival experience.

To me personally when the challenge is gone I stop playing. In all honesty the best build for me was about A11 or when zombies dug under your base and we had gravel mining. At the time I thought these jerks digging under my base was bs, but I was in a loop of rebuilding/repairing a lot and trying to get more concrete under there, traps to slow them down, anything really. I had a puzzle to solve and it was engaging, despite me thinking it was BS. I mean sometimes we think we want something else, but then you get that and its not as good for an unexplained reason.

I get it now, there must be some kind of continued challenge. I hope we can introduce various special zombies at various game stages that make players have to rethink. Imagine early game you get a box fort you think your doing ok. You survive the first horde barely.... so then you build spikes and reinforce walls a bit, add a some walkways etc. Then you do well and survive, but then next week more come and maybe you die or barely survive, but you put together in your mind, I need more spikes or a trench or something better. So you do that, solve it for another horde but then the spiders come and get over your walls and cause new problems. Build taller walls is now on my todo list. Then acid pukers come, maybe I need concrete now. Then vultures, maybe some auto turrets to shoot them, or some kind of chain link above my fort. Then the bunker busters come, I need this.

My dream game is we can feed new AI every few hordes and make players have to find ways to adapt to the changing hordes. To me that would be a blast. Give players tools to solve these problems and see what they come up with. Not too much grind. A11 had too much repair. It was a bad design, but at a simple level it was good because I was obsessed with solving it as a player.

Yes pls^^

Heck you just start messing with turning on and off abilities..

example:

First week: zombies are all stupid. Can't jump, can't climb ladders. can't dig (Ability set "0").

Second week: 75% are still stupid. but 25% of them are different, they can climb ladders now (Ability set "1").

3rd week: 50% are stupid. 25% can climb ladders. 25% can climb and jump (Ability set "2").

4th week: 25% are stupid. 25%% can climb ladders. 25% can climb and jump. 25% can climb, jump, dig (Ability set "3").

Survived the first month? Then start adding the specials to the mix.

turn on the screamers starting the 5th week.

6th week: Add in the spiders types.

 

[Xhalarin]

Wanted to give a shout out to the Dev team to say you're doing an amazing job. I can't get enough of this game and love the features and direction you've taken it. All of your hard work is appreciated beyond words. Can't wait for what's coming!

 

[Survager]

There is a certain point where if something feels useless nobody will use it. A lot of people think the blunderbuss is useless and it probably is now because firearms are too available.

The blanderbass is not useless, the blanderbass is life-threatening shooter! ) The character automatically starts recharging it immediately after the shot. While the character is reloading the blanderbass, he cannot run. The time that is needed to recharge the blanbass is very long, so that zombies or dogs can catch up and eat us.

The blanderbuss will be useful if we definitely need press "R" for reloading when we need it.

 

[Thecolours]

I can cut nests in half and stop the bacon and egg endless food in one line of code.

Don't tempt me with a good time.

 

[Thecolours]

So, I'm wondering how the specializations are going to work. At what tier in each main category do you unlock the unique weapon?

For example, I want to specialize in Int because I want the Junk turret, does it unlock at tier 3,4,5?

I'm just wondering if its only tier 1, wont we be able to unlock all the specialized weapons?

 

[Gareee]

Much more brass is coming to A18, in various wasteland treasures books.

A simple brass solution is just make doors with brass knobs drop two doorknobs when broken. We've been modding that in since a15, but it makes immersion sense, encourages exploration for the doors, and resolves the brass shortage issue.

 

[Aldranon]

The blanderbass is not useless, the blanderbass is life-threatening shooter! ) The character automatically starts recharging it immediately after the shot. While the character is reloading the blanderbass, he cannot run. The time that is needed to recharge the blanbass is very long, so that zombies or dogs can catch up and eat us.
The blanderbuss will be useful if we definitely need press "R" for reloading when we need it.

Or... Have 6 Blunderbuss's on your toolbelt and after you fire the first one, hit the number of the next one. A Six-Shooter if you will.